12 ms·

> With enhanced noise cancellation, Echo can hear you ask a question even while it's playing music. I read: "Our cloud servers can hear you, no matter what."

> With enhanced noise cancellation, Echo can hear you ask a question even while it's playing music. I read: "Our cloud servers can hear you, no matter what." It's a killer idea. It's too bad privacy concerns might lead it to an early grave.

krschultz 12y ago
Opt-in to 1984 for only $199! ($99 if you belong to Amazon Prime)
- bhhaskin 12y ago
  That is exactly what this reminds me of, telescreens. I love the idea of being able to have a star trek like computer interface, but with all the processing being done off site it can and will be used in ways that violate our privacy.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    We clearly need the Enterprise's central computer in our homes. With microcomputers getting more and more and more powerful, this should be possible (unless Moriarty turns up and takes control from the holodeck....) In all seriousness, with Wikipedia being 22GB in textual state, it should be possible to build an offline system (that perhaps syncs online for news).
- towelguy 12y ago
  Once everybody has it, it will be easy to pinpoint the few without one as the people with something to hide.
msandford 12y ago
Absolute first thought was along similar lines. If it did all the processing locally and just fetched results I might be interested. But this? Not so much.
- Arnor 12y ago
  Why are you saying things you don't want the cloud to know about anyway?
  - autism_hurts 12y ago
    Okay, give me your Facebook password please. Thanks in advance.
  - msandford 12y ago
    Are you trolling? Do you know nothing about privacy?
    - alexhawdon 12y ago
      I'm pretty sure that's a tongue-in-cheek reference to the pro-surveillance argument that 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear'.
- pilooch 12y ago
  yes, it'd need to be fully open hardware and open source software. What else ? :)
spacefight 12y ago
Yes. Seeing how big Amazon has come with its web services, cloud storage etc and now with technology like this, I wonder why we haven't read about Amazon in any of the Snowden leaks. Or have I missed something?
- towelguy 12y ago
  You don't hear of Amazon but you hear of their customers. Dropbox is on AWS for example.
hashtree 12y ago
I'd still be interested, if and only if, the "wake word" processing is done locally and it THEN sends the recording that occurred after the wake word up to the cloud. If it is the case that even the wake word processing is done in the cloud, non-starter for all the reasons you state.
- ilyaeck 12y ago
  Wake-up word is the way to go for many reasons.
- acrefoot 12y ago
  I know for a fact that the wake word processing is done locally on the device. You could even check its network traffic to see that this is the case. I'm not sure what protections you would have against a secret court order making the device always listen (via an OTA update) for select individuals, but you can at least check that they don't have such monitoring enabled for most devices.
- jasonlotito 12y ago
  > if and only if, the "wake word" processing is done locally That's what it's doing.
- juline 12y ago
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Someone1234 12y ago
I grow tired of this pathetic baseless fear mongering every single time anything is posted with voice control. You people completely ignore the mode of operation and start making idiotic claims about "well NSA!" In this case, as the website makes clear, you have to say the word "Alexa" for it to start listening. If you had been paying attention to the mobile scene even a little bit you'd know that this is on-chip listening for the term, rather than in the cloud. So, no, you're in fact wrong. Nothing will be transmitted to the cloud unless it is the word "Alexa" or sounds similar enough to the term.
- skorgu 12y ago
  The website makes clear that the listen-and-answer /behavior/ isn't activated unless triggered. That's absolutely not evidence in either direction for what happens in the non-triggered case. For example the idea that there's a debug mode that dumps the whole audio stream for troubleshooting isn't exactly tinfoil-hat paranoia.
  - chaostheory 12y ago
    How do you really know? How do you know that it won't be processing sound without the trigger when they get served with some government request? Is this in the terms and conditions? Is this in the privacy policy? Yes the original post is making an assumption, but you are as well.
    - wtetzner 12y ago
      I think you misunderstood skorgu's post. I think you're both in agreement. He was saying Echo won't act on anything without first hearing "Alexa," (as in, perform the action you're asking it to) but that we don't know if it will be transmitting the voice data.
- SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
  > Nothing will be transmitted to the cloud unless it is the word "Alexa" You can't be certain that there's no way to activate it remotely without you knowing. Seven mikes in your lounge is an attractive nuisance.
rickdale 12y ago
I agree completely. At least this isn't the microsoft kinnect yet, that can basically scan the room for every little detail and is always listening. The first time I saw the kinnect, I thought, hm, I wonder how other companies will get this technology into the living rooms of every family. To me, everything these big companies do is just a play to get information on people. Putting the kinnect in my living room and always have the mic on and it connected to my cable television and my internet, and constantly listening even when the xbox is off is freaky; just like this new echo. It's scary, but I bet personal recognition features are coming to this echo soon. Also, I can imagine being like, echo order me some stuff off of amazon, and then magically it appears from a drone in the sky.
mmanfrin 12y ago
Privacy concerns not alleviated by the video, which showed the Echo in every room that the family was in.
pkulak 12y ago
Wow. New technology can be used for good or evil? This can be (and usually is!) the top comment on any interesting HN post.
- Crito 12y ago
  Can be, usually is, and should be. As engineers, we should always consider the potential ramifications of technology that we create. Now, we should not necessarily refuse to develop an idea because it could be abused, but we should always keep abuse in mind. Nearly everything can be abused, if only as a bludgeon, so obviously we need to have a certain level of tolerance for potential abuse. However it would be negligent to not consider the full range of ways something could be abused. I strongly believe that engineers have an obligation to always consider and discuss the ethics of what they are building. Even if you don't give a shit about ethics (I know many engineers don't), you must realize that many potential consumers will be concerned. Considering these possibilities is therefore just good business sense.
jblok 12y ago
I agree. I wouldn't have one in my home, but for most of the non-tech savvy population, all you need to do is stick something on the box that says "100% secure" or something similar and their nerves are calmed. This is obviously not apparent in the HN/tech worlds, but the unfortunate perception I get is that no one really cares about their online privacy (unless it comes to their finances). When I talk to my non-techy friends, most say the cliches like, "I'm not doing anything wrong, so have nothing to hide". Therefore the reason governments can get away with forcing tech companies to give up data, is because the people don't really care, or believe the bullshit in the media about stopping terrorists, and tolerate it.
kolev 12y ago
Well, until Amazon starts understanding Bulgarian (the language we speak at home), I'll be fine. Just imagine an Amazon Prime members' freebie next year: unlimited recording of everything you've ever said at home for free and accessible on the web or via our companion app.
- jjwiseman 12y ago
  Nuance can recognize Bulgarian: http://www.nuance.com/for-business/by-solution/customer-service-solutions/solutions-services/inbound-solutions/self-service-automation/recognizer/recognizer-languages/index.htm http://www.nuance.com/for-business/by-solution/customer-serv...
  - kolev 12y ago
    Well, they will record a lot of cursing and anti-Obama talk then - big deal! :)
melling 12y ago
Hey, you're that guy!
ptaffs 12y ago
Agreed. And on the idea that it's ridiculous they are listening all the time, and 1984 comparisons, it's worth knowing in 1984 they weren't continually listening, but they might be. I read this book in the 1970s at school, i think it's time to re-read. http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/0.html http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/0.html quote: There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.
phreeza 12y ago
How is it different from installing a random program on your computer? That would also have microphone access and could in theory spy on you.

krschultz 12y ago

Opt-in to 1984 for only $199! ($99 if you belong to Amazon Prime)

bhhaskin 12y ago
That is exactly what this reminds me of, telescreens. I love the idea of being able to have a star trek like computer interface, but with all the processing being done off site it can and will be used in ways that violate our privacy.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  We clearly need the Enterprise's central computer in our homes. With microcomputers getting more and more and more powerful, this should be possible (unless Moriarty turns up and takes control from the holodeck....) In all seriousness, with Wikipedia being 22GB in textual state, it should be possible to build an offline system (that perhaps syncs online for news).
towelguy 12y ago
Once everybody has it, it will be easy to pinpoint the few without one as the people with something to hide.

msandford 12y ago

Absolute first thought was along similar lines. If it did all the processing locally and just fetched results I might be interested. But this? Not so much.

Arnor 12y ago
Why are you saying things you don't want the cloud to know about anyway?
- autism_hurts 12y ago
  Okay, give me your Facebook password please. Thanks in advance.
- msandford 12y ago
  Are you trolling? Do you know nothing about privacy?
  - alexhawdon 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's a tongue-in-cheek reference to the pro-surveillance argument that 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear'.
pilooch 12y ago
yes, it'd need to be fully open hardware and open source software. What else ? :)

spacefight 12y ago

Yes. Seeing how big Amazon has come with its web services, cloud storage etc and now with technology like this, I wonder why we haven't read about Amazon in any of the Snowden leaks. Or have I missed something?

towelguy 12y ago
You don't hear of Amazon but you hear of their customers. Dropbox is on AWS for example.

hashtree 12y ago

I'd still be interested, if and only if, the "wake word" processing is done locally and it THEN sends the recording that occurred after the wake word up to the cloud. If it is the case that even the wake word processing is done in the cloud, non-starter for all the reasons you state.

ilyaeck 12y ago
Wake-up word is the way to go for many reasons.
acrefoot 12y ago
I know for a fact that the wake word processing is done locally on the device. You could even check its network traffic to see that this is the case. I'm not sure what protections you would have against a secret court order making the device always listen (via an OTA update) for select individuals, but you can at least check that they don't have such monitoring enabled for most devices.
jasonlotito 12y ago
> if and only if, the "wake word" processing is done locally That's what it's doing.
juline 12y ago
earn at your home and get paid $5708 in 1 month by working on the internet If You do not have time to Come to Meet then You can Visit our Website Where You can Get Complete Training About this Online Money Making Program register here...http://➽.ws/easyearn http://➽.ws/easyearn

Someone1234 12y ago

I grow tired of this pathetic baseless fear mongering every single time anything is posted with voice control. You people completely ignore the mode of operation and start making idiotic claims about "well NSA!" In this case, as the website makes clear, you have to say the word "Alexa" for it to start listening. If you had been paying attention to the mobile scene even a little bit you'd know that this is on-chip listening for the term, rather than in the cloud. So, no, you're in fact wrong. Nothing will be transmitted to the cloud unless it is the word "Alexa" or sounds similar enough to the term.

skorgu 12y ago
The website makes clear that the listen-and-answer /behavior/ isn't activated unless triggered. That's absolutely not evidence in either direction for what happens in the non-triggered case. For example the idea that there's a debug mode that dumps the whole audio stream for troubleshooting isn't exactly tinfoil-hat paranoia.
- chaostheory 12y ago
  How do you really know? How do you know that it won't be processing sound without the trigger when they get served with some government request? Is this in the terms and conditions? Is this in the privacy policy? Yes the original post is making an assumption, but you are as well.
  - wtetzner 12y ago
    I think you misunderstood skorgu's post. I think you're both in agreement. He was saying Echo won't act on anything without first hearing "Alexa," (as in, perform the action you're asking it to) but that we don't know if it will be transmitting the voice data.
SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
> Nothing will be transmitted to the cloud unless it is the word "Alexa" You can't be certain that there's no way to activate it remotely without you knowing. Seven mikes in your lounge is an attractive nuisance.

rickdale 12y ago

I agree completely. At least this isn't the microsoft kinnect yet, that can basically scan the room for every little detail and is always listening. The first time I saw the kinnect, I thought, hm, I wonder how other companies will get this technology into the living rooms of every family. To me, everything these big companies do is just a play to get information on people. Putting the kinnect in my living room and always have the mic on and it connected to my cable television and my internet, and constantly listening even when the xbox is off is freaky; just like this new echo. It's scary, but I bet personal recognition features are coming to this echo soon. Also, I can imagine being like, echo order me some stuff off of amazon, and then magically it appears from a drone in the sky.

mmanfrin 12y ago

Privacy concerns not alleviated by the video, which showed the Echo in every room that the family was in.

pkulak 12y ago

Wow. New technology can be used for good or evil? This can be (and usually is!) the top comment on any interesting HN post.

Crito 12y ago
Can be, usually is, and should be. As engineers, we should always consider the potential ramifications of technology that we create. Now, we should not necessarily refuse to develop an idea because it could be abused, but we should always keep abuse in mind. Nearly everything can be abused, if only as a bludgeon, so obviously we need to have a certain level of tolerance for potential abuse. However it would be negligent to not consider the full range of ways something could be abused. I strongly believe that engineers have an obligation to always consider and discuss the ethics of what they are building. Even if you don't give a shit about ethics (I know many engineers don't), you must realize that many potential consumers will be concerned. Considering these possibilities is therefore just good business sense.

jblok 12y ago

I agree. I wouldn't have one in my home, but for most of the non-tech savvy population, all you need to do is stick something on the box that says "100% secure" or something similar and their nerves are calmed. This is obviously not apparent in the HN/tech worlds, but the unfortunate perception I get is that no one really cares about their online privacy (unless it comes to their finances). When I talk to my non-techy friends, most say the cliches like, "I'm not doing anything wrong, so have nothing to hide". Therefore the reason governments can get away with forcing tech companies to give up data, is because the people don't really care, or believe the bullshit in the media about stopping terrorists, and tolerate it.

kolev 12y ago

Well, until Amazon starts understanding Bulgarian (the language we speak at home), I'll be fine. Just imagine an Amazon Prime members' freebie next year: unlimited recording of everything you've ever said at home for free and accessible on the web or via our companion app.

jjwiseman 12y ago
Nuance can recognize Bulgarian: http://www.nuance.com/for-business/by-solution/customer-service-solutions/solutions-services/inbound-solutions/self-service-automation/recognizer/recognizer-languages/index.htm http://www.nuance.com/for-business/by-solution/customer-serv...
- kolev 12y ago
  Well, they will record a lot of cursing and anti-Obama talk then - big deal! :)

melling 12y ago

Hey, you're that guy!

ptaffs 12y ago

Agreed. And on the idea that it's ridiculous they are listening all the time, and 1984 comparisons, it's worth knowing in 1984 they weren't continually listening, but they might be. I read this book in the 1970s at school, i think it's time to re-read. http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/0.html http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/0.html quote: There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.

phreeza 12y ago

How is it different from installing a random program on your computer? That would also have microphone access and could in theory spy on you.