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Related: An epic Reddit answer to 'Why Americans get so little vacation time' Short answer: Communism lost http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/d8eiv/why

Related: An epic Reddit answer to 'Why Americans get so little vacation time' Short answer: Communism lost http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/d8eiv/why_do_americans_get_so_little_vacation_time/c0ybdup http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/d8eiv/why_do_ameri...

confluence 12y ago
That answer is complete bullshit. > In the United States, socialism is virtually nonexistent. Except for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Unemployment. And don't forget the military.
- lentil_soup 12y ago
  Sorry if I am being ignorant, but how's the military a socialist thing?
  - confluence 12y ago
    > Every day before dawn, brave men and women of different races and backgrounds rise as one, united by a common cause. They march together in formation, kept in step by their voices joined in song. These workers leave their communal housing arrangements and go toil together “in the field.” While they are out doing their day’s labor, their young are cared for in subsidized childcare programs. If they hurt themselves on the job, they can count on universal health care. Right under your nose, on the fenced-in bases you drive past on your way to work or see on the TV news, a successful experiment in collectivization has been going on for years. -- http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-the-uniform-unite-the-military-is-a-socialist-paradise.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-t... > The military is innately hierarchical, yet it nurtures a camaraderie in part because the military looks after its employees. This is a rare enclave of single-payer universal health care, and it continues with a veterans’ health care system that has much lower costs than the American system as a whole. -- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=... I'm surprised this isn't obvious to most people. I also find libertarian soldiers extremely amusing.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - dnautics 12y ago
      (shove the healthcare part aside for a second) to a certain degree, all firms are 'socialist', because they are banding together to not compete with each other. This is the central interesting problem in the 'theory of the firm' which deals with how in a capitalist system groups of individuals band together to not compete. This definition, then is meaningless. Socialism is when a central authority organizes the distribution of labor and resources under the threat of force. As for the healthcare, universal healthcare for soldiers is a horribly malfunctioning system in the US, and it is unlikely to change anytime soon.
      - confluence 12y ago
        It's only malfunction is being poorly funded. The definition is not meaningless. Companies are pretty socialist.
        dnautics 12y ago
        no it's not. The organization is corrupt from the top. My father is a medium-level executive there. Years ago, he reported that there was black mold in the senior care facility and exposed several million dollars of overbilling by doctors. For his troubles, he was rubber-roomed (paid six salaries to sit in a room with no windows and no responsibilities). This is not an incident that made the major media. Other, more publicised problems exist, in the Phoenix office, and notably at Walter Reed, during the Bush tenure and wars in afghanistan and iraq. But if you seriously have such a belief in the VA, GO ASK 5 VETERANS what they think of it.
- jahaja 12y ago
  Every tax-financed band-aid to Capitalism is not by some black-magic Socialism per se.
- dirktheman 12y ago
  By that definition the whole of Western Europe would be a socialist state. Government services like these do not equal socialism. I live in The Netherlands, a pretty liberal kingdom with excellent social security and unemployment benefits. But don't be mistaken, it's not a socialist country. Not by a long shot. The biggest political parties are liberal-conservative and social-democrats. The latter lean towards the left, but our only true socialist party is much more to the left. They're only the sixth party by size.
  - confluence 12y ago
    > Government services like these do not equal socialism. Well, they definitely aren't capitalist.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    > By that definition the whole of Western Europe would be a socialist state. Much of the US believes that to be the case.
    - emsy 12y ago
      Likewise, I've heard people on several occasions call the US a 3rd world country because of its poor social infrastructure.
    - mercurial 12y ago
      It's endlessly bizarre to see Americans throw around the word "socialist" as if it was a curse. Western Europe is made of social democracies. Northern Europe in particular has made the choice to live with high taxes and better social services. It does not mean that they are governed by unelected oligarchs, they get the same kind of elected oligarchs as the rest.
      - ceejayoz 12y ago
        There has been a concerted campaign in the US to convince people that other countries' social services are inefficient, dangerous, and hated by their populations. In a fun example, an American financial newspaper claimed (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_british_and_alive/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_british_and_...) that if Stephen Hawking were British and subject to the NHS that he'd be dead. He is, of course, British.
facepalm 12y ago
That seems so completely misguided. Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Isn't it just a matter of earning enough money to afford a vacation? I doubt rich people worry as much about little vacation time - they buy those expensive yachts and then have only two weeks per year to ride them? And even supposing there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone, and if you go on vacation somebody uses the opportunity to snatch away your job: isn't that rather a problem of distribution and work organization, not of social welfare? If it's more efficient for organizations to have one person work 40 hours than two persons 20 hours, they'll prefer that.
- edem 12y ago
  In Hungary (which is considered a shitty place to live) I get 23 days of paid vacation (with weekends considered it can be more than a month). I also don't have to work overtime.
- shawabawa3 12y ago
  > Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Because life is better that way. The employer/employee relationship is incredibly biased. A lot of people simply cannot afford to lose their job, whereas pretty much every employer can afford to fire almost any individual. This means people are willing to work for little pay, poor benefits and no vacation because they are effectively forced to, even though everyone would be better off if everyone was forced to take vacation
  - facepalm 12y ago
    Isn't it also the responsibility of the individual to gain skills that are valuable? I don't think what you describe is true for Software Developers in Sillicon Valley, for example. How much vacation do Software Developers in the Valley usually get?
    - kefka 12y ago
      The Silicon Valley is not indicative of jobs in the US. What some developer there gets has little/no bearing on what happens elsewhere. You also did not argue the core assertion that the employer-employee contract is heavily skewed to the employer. That has been true for the last 30 years. Productivity has made great inroads, yet pay and benefits have dropped significantly. So yes, this is a government issue. The employers have a sweet deal and the plebes have no power. But alas, Republicans in the Senate will make sure that much needed reforms won't happen.
dllthomas 12y ago
I have trouble taking seriously a post "educating" us about history that asserts Russia was part of the Axis Powers up until Germany attacked Russia. The pact that grew into the Axis was specifically created to oppose communism. Germany attacked Russia in violation of an agreement, but that agreement hardly made Russia part of the Axis.

confluence 12y ago

That answer is complete bullshit. > In the United States, socialism is virtually nonexistent. Except for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and Unemployment. And don't forget the military.

lentil_soup 12y ago
Sorry if I am being ignorant, but how's the military a socialist thing?
- confluence 12y ago
  > Every day before dawn, brave men and women of different races and backgrounds rise as one, united by a common cause. They march together in formation, kept in step by their voices joined in song. These workers leave their communal housing arrangements and go toil together “in the field.” While they are out doing their day’s labor, their young are cared for in subsidized childcare programs. If they hurt themselves on the job, they can count on universal health care. Right under your nose, on the fenced-in bases you drive past on your way to work or see on the TV news, a successful experiment in collectivization has been going on for years. -- http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-the-uniform-unite-the-military-is-a-socialist-paradise.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/21/troops-of-t... > The military is innately hierarchical, yet it nurtures a camaraderie in part because the military looks after its employees. This is a rare enclave of single-payer universal health care, and it continues with a veterans’ health care system that has much lower costs than the American system as a whole. -- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/opinion/16kristof.html?_r=... I'm surprised this isn't obvious to most people. I also find libertarian soldiers extremely amusing.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - dnautics 12y ago
    (shove the healthcare part aside for a second) to a certain degree, all firms are 'socialist', because they are banding together to not compete with each other. This is the central interesting problem in the 'theory of the firm' which deals with how in a capitalist system groups of individuals band together to not compete. This definition, then is meaningless. Socialism is when a central authority organizes the distribution of labor and resources under the threat of force. As for the healthcare, universal healthcare for soldiers is a horribly malfunctioning system in the US, and it is unlikely to change anytime soon.
    - confluence 12y ago
      It's only malfunction is being poorly funded. The definition is not meaningless. Companies are pretty socialist.
      - dnautics 12y ago
        no it's not. The organization is corrupt from the top. My father is a medium-level executive there. Years ago, he reported that there was black mold in the senior care facility and exposed several million dollars of overbilling by doctors. For his troubles, he was rubber-roomed (paid six salaries to sit in a room with no windows and no responsibilities). This is not an incident that made the major media. Other, more publicised problems exist, in the Phoenix office, and notably at Walter Reed, during the Bush tenure and wars in afghanistan and iraq. But if you seriously have such a belief in the VA, GO ASK 5 VETERANS what they think of it.
jahaja 12y ago
Every tax-financed band-aid to Capitalism is not by some black-magic Socialism per se.
dirktheman 12y ago
By that definition the whole of Western Europe would be a socialist state. Government services like these do not equal socialism. I live in The Netherlands, a pretty liberal kingdom with excellent social security and unemployment benefits. But don't be mistaken, it's not a socialist country. Not by a long shot. The biggest political parties are liberal-conservative and social-democrats. The latter lean towards the left, but our only true socialist party is much more to the left. They're only the sixth party by size.
- confluence 12y ago
  > Government services like these do not equal socialism. Well, they definitely aren't capitalist.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  > By that definition the whole of Western Europe would be a socialist state. Much of the US believes that to be the case.
  - emsy 12y ago
    Likewise, I've heard people on several occasions call the US a 3rd world country because of its poor social infrastructure.
  - mercurial 12y ago
    It's endlessly bizarre to see Americans throw around the word "socialist" as if it was a curse. Western Europe is made of social democracies. Northern Europe in particular has made the choice to live with high taxes and better social services. It does not mean that they are governed by unelected oligarchs, they get the same kind of elected oligarchs as the rest.
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      There has been a concerted campaign in the US to convince people that other countries' social services are inefficient, dangerous, and hated by their populations. In a fun example, an American financial newspaper claimed (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_british_and_alive/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_british_and_...) that if Stephen Hawking were British and subject to the NHS that he'd be dead. He is, of course, British.

facepalm 12y ago

That seems so completely misguided. Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Isn't it just a matter of earning enough money to afford a vacation? I doubt rich people worry as much about little vacation time - they buy those expensive yachts and then have only two weeks per year to ride them? And even supposing there simply aren't enough jobs for everyone, and if you go on vacation somebody uses the opportunity to snatch away your job: isn't that rather a problem of distribution and work organization, not of social welfare? If it's more efficient for organizations to have one person work 40 hours than two persons 20 hours, they'll prefer that.

edem 12y ago
In Hungary (which is considered a shitty place to live) I get 23 days of paid vacation (with weekends considered it can be more than a month). I also don't have to work overtime.
shawabawa3 12y ago
> Why is it the government's responsibility to fix your vacation for you? Because life is better that way. The employer/employee relationship is incredibly biased. A lot of people simply cannot afford to lose their job, whereas pretty much every employer can afford to fire almost any individual. This means people are willing to work for little pay, poor benefits and no vacation because they are effectively forced to, even though everyone would be better off if everyone was forced to take vacation
- facepalm 12y ago
  Isn't it also the responsibility of the individual to gain skills that are valuable? I don't think what you describe is true for Software Developers in Sillicon Valley, for example. How much vacation do Software Developers in the Valley usually get?
  - kefka 12y ago
    The Silicon Valley is not indicative of jobs in the US. What some developer there gets has little/no bearing on what happens elsewhere. You also did not argue the core assertion that the employer-employee contract is heavily skewed to the employer. That has been true for the last 30 years. Productivity has made great inroads, yet pay and benefits have dropped significantly. So yes, this is a government issue. The employers have a sweet deal and the plebes have no power. But alas, Republicans in the Senate will make sure that much needed reforms won't happen.

dllthomas 12y ago

I have trouble taking seriously a post "educating" us about history that asserts Russia was part of the Axis Powers up until Germany attacked Russia. The pact that grew into the Axis was specifically created to oppose communism. Germany attacked Russia in violation of an agreement, but that agreement hardly made Russia part of the Axis.