4 ms·

>He’d say things like “Did you get that bruise from your boyfriend beating you?” or “I bet your parents abused you as a child.” Really don't know what to say a

>He’d say things like “Did you get that bruise from your boyfriend beating you?” or “I bet your parents abused you as a child.” Really don't know what to say about this quote. I can understand not being able to fit in to a homogenous culture, but this guy is just an asshole.

sunir 12y ago
The reason this perpetuates is because there is no way to win. Crush this person on legal grounds (good luck if your HR department defends the company and not you) no one will trust you again on your team. Let it ride to go along and get along, you may suffer the reputation of taking it and also have these attacks used to undermine you on the corporate ladder. Brutal and disgusting.
- Shivetya 12y ago
  the sadder part, I have seen minority managers pick on other minorities and make comments that would never fly if from a non-minority. as one friend told me, who is going to believe him, let alone care.
- nemothekid 12y ago
  This shouldn't be about winning some battle. It's not illegal to be an asshole - I can walk into your workplace and say "sunir's spouse is a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce." Likely though, I wouldn't be working there much longer. Simply put the guy is toxic and it makes me sick that it was swept under the rug. It further confuses that this happened at Google as I'd never imagined their culture tolerating a toxic work environment. Even worse if it was swept under the rug because she was a black woman.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    There are people out there who aren't necessarily toxic in general, but can say toxic things from time to time. And to be honest, if you got rid of everyone who had asshole lapses, you would be left with only the most socially capable (and not necessarily the best asocial engineering talent). Other than that, I'm not sure what the solution should be.
  - mrottenkolber 12y ago
    Why do people expect Google to have a good culture? I really don't get it. * Huge company * Misanthropic "products" * Based in a notoriously capitalist country Sure that must be a great place to work.
    - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
      If you're going to disqualify every company that is "based in a notoriously capitalistic country", then your bias against capitalism is so strong that it's over-riding your ability to judge a workplace on its merits. For that matter, if you're that strongly against capitalism, doesn't the idea of a corporation itself offend you? It's not just the country it's based in.
      - Mangalor 12y ago
        There are ranges of capitalism and democratic socialism. It's not black and white.
      - mrottenkolber 12y ago
        It was just one of three points. How about: * Small company * Vegetable farming * Based in notoriously capitalist country I can see working there. > strongly against capitalism Actually I am rather embracing capitalism, which is weird, because one must be an idiot to not have very very very strong feelings against the meat grinder. To you US guys this may sound off, but the somewhat educated human being does not think capitalism entails freedom. In fact it is common knowledge that it causes general loss of humanity, democracy and quality of both life and dreams. So consider this a "for the record": Of course capitalism is a big no-no (well duh). But if your living in a capitalist country anyways, you might consider avoiding big companies because they tend to make use of all the benefits capitalism entails them to. > For that matter, if you're that strongly against capitalism, doesn't the idea of a corporation itself offend you? It's not just the country it's based in. It might make sense looking up "capitalism". A corporation in itself is not really related to capitalism. Instead, its system of profit-by-property (the capital) instead of profit-by-labor is usually pinned as the core concept.
  - sunir 12y ago
    Actually, it is illegal to create a hostile work environment under the California labor law (and many other US states and developed countries). Race and gender are protected statuses. Companies are expected to have anti-harassment or anti-discrimination policies. References: http://www.toplawfirm.com/HostileWorkEnvironment.html http://www.toplawfirm.com/HostileWorkEnvironment.html http://www.harriskaufman.com/Articles/Harassment-Advice-What-Should-You-Do-If-You-re-Being-Harassed.shtml http://www.harriskaufman.com/Articles/Harassment-Advice-What...
- imanaccount247 12y ago
  >good luck if your HR department defends the company and not you What do you mean "if"? That is what HR is for, defending the company. They do not exist for your benefit.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    It is very much in the companies best interest to stop that kind of thing. If you go to them and they don't deal with the situation, they open themselves up to massive liability.
  - Mangalor 12y ago
    People forget that an employee is also a member of the company. What if the accuser is in management? Who is HR supposed to defend? By choosing to defend discrimination over the route that might actually resolve the situation, HR can end up causing more problems for the company in the end.
spydum 12y ago
Worst is the incompetent manager who failed to address it. Very likely both the manager and offensive employee still are there. People don't realize that their resistance to rock the boat prolong the suffering of others who will come along later.
incision 12y ago
>"I can understand not being able to fit in to a homogenous culture, but this guy is just an asshole." Clearly. Problem is, in my experience... 1.) No one wants to get involved. 2.) It's easier to be accommodating of assholes when they're directing their behavior at someone who isn't "one of you" on some level or another. 3.) It's easier to be accommodating of an asshole who also happens to be a "great engineer", "would do anything for a friend" or has their childish nonsense rationalized as "lacking people skills". I'd wager someone, likely many people in that situation knew exactly what was going on yet did nothing for one or more of the above reasons. As a group we just need to recognize that those people among us, our friends and coworkers who are shitty to the loner on the team or rude to the cleaning lady, but wonderful to their peers - they're assholes and deserve to be held to account for it.
- Mangalor 12y ago
  This is where HR should be available to act as a third party, but sadly that's not the real function of HR in most companies.
- neolefty 12y ago
  I agree, and I wonder in practical terms what I could do. I agree that it's everyone's responsibility. Here are the options I see: 1. Talk to the asshole. Fits well with the ideal "take care of it yourself" ethic, but in most cases, I don't think this will go well. Fights, defensiveness, turf, escalation, etc. Works well when asshole is not actually an ass, just ignorant. 2. Talk to HR. Seems snitchy, but it can have real results, since HR often has levers to pull here. 3. Talk to a manager (theirs or yours). Ditto. My experience is that when you're in an organization, as much as I'd like to "take care of it myself" by talking directly to the culprit, usually talking to superiors / HR is the way to go. That requires that the HR & management can handle it of course. In most cases I've seen, they know what to do. In a few, they didn't -- and that was indicative of a company that was doomed.
smm2000 12y ago
I am from Russia and at every party somebody will ask me if I drink Vodka or if I drink Vodka for breakfast or some other bullshit. When it's cold outside, somebody will say that I should not feel cold because I am from Russia like it gives some kind of immunity to cold. People do not understand that some jokes are not funny if repeated 50 times. I do not feel oppressed or not belonging though.
- megablast 12y ago
  Hardly the same thing. As an aussie I get asked if I used to ride a Kangaroo to school. This is not the same thing at all.
- diziet 12y ago
  I've heard these exact jokes time and time again. I know I should be bothered by them but like you, I do not feel oppressed, just annoyed.
- forgottenpass 12y ago
  People do not understand that some jokes are not funny if repeated 50 times. The proper response to these jokes is "I've never heard that one before."

sunir 12y ago

The reason this perpetuates is because there is no way to win. Crush this person on legal grounds (good luck if your HR department defends the company and not you) no one will trust you again on your team. Let it ride to go along and get along, you may suffer the reputation of taking it and also have these attacks used to undermine you on the corporate ladder. Brutal and disgusting.

Shivetya 12y ago
the sadder part, I have seen minority managers pick on other minorities and make comments that would never fly if from a non-minority. as one friend told me, who is going to believe him, let alone care.
nemothekid 12y ago
This shouldn't be about winning some battle. It's not illegal to be an asshole - I can walk into your workplace and say "sunir's spouse is a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce." Likely though, I wouldn't be working there much longer. Simply put the guy is toxic and it makes me sick that it was swept under the rug. It further confuses that this happened at Google as I'd never imagined their culture tolerating a toxic work environment. Even worse if it was swept under the rug because she was a black woman.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  There are people out there who aren't necessarily toxic in general, but can say toxic things from time to time. And to be honest, if you got rid of everyone who had asshole lapses, you would be left with only the most socially capable (and not necessarily the best asocial engineering talent). Other than that, I'm not sure what the solution should be.
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  Why do people expect Google to have a good culture? I really don't get it. * Huge company * Misanthropic "products" * Based in a notoriously capitalist country Sure that must be a great place to work.
  - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
    If you're going to disqualify every company that is "based in a notoriously capitalistic country", then your bias against capitalism is so strong that it's over-riding your ability to judge a workplace on its merits. For that matter, if you're that strongly against capitalism, doesn't the idea of a corporation itself offend you? It's not just the country it's based in.
    - Mangalor 12y ago
      There are ranges of capitalism and democratic socialism. It's not black and white.
    - mrottenkolber 12y ago
      It was just one of three points. How about: * Small company * Vegetable farming * Based in notoriously capitalist country I can see working there. > strongly against capitalism Actually I am rather embracing capitalism, which is weird, because one must be an idiot to not have very very very strong feelings against the meat grinder. To you US guys this may sound off, but the somewhat educated human being does not think capitalism entails freedom. In fact it is common knowledge that it causes general loss of humanity, democracy and quality of both life and dreams. So consider this a "for the record": Of course capitalism is a big no-no (well duh). But if your living in a capitalist country anyways, you might consider avoiding big companies because they tend to make use of all the benefits capitalism entails them to. > For that matter, if you're that strongly against capitalism, doesn't the idea of a corporation itself offend you? It's not just the country it's based in. It might make sense looking up "capitalism". A corporation in itself is not really related to capitalism. Instead, its system of profit-by-property (the capital) instead of profit-by-labor is usually pinned as the core concept.
- sunir 12y ago
  Actually, it is illegal to create a hostile work environment under the California labor law (and many other US states and developed countries). Race and gender are protected statuses. Companies are expected to have anti-harassment or anti-discrimination policies. References: http://www.toplawfirm.com/HostileWorkEnvironment.html http://www.toplawfirm.com/HostileWorkEnvironment.html http://www.harriskaufman.com/Articles/Harassment-Advice-What-Should-You-Do-If-You-re-Being-Harassed.shtml http://www.harriskaufman.com/Articles/Harassment-Advice-What...
imanaccount247 12y ago
>good luck if your HR department defends the company and not you What do you mean "if"? That is what HR is for, defending the company. They do not exist for your benefit.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  It is very much in the companies best interest to stop that kind of thing. If you go to them and they don't deal with the situation, they open themselves up to massive liability.
- Mangalor 12y ago
  People forget that an employee is also a member of the company. What if the accuser is in management? Who is HR supposed to defend? By choosing to defend discrimination over the route that might actually resolve the situation, HR can end up causing more problems for the company in the end.

spydum 12y ago

Worst is the incompetent manager who failed to address it. Very likely both the manager and offensive employee still are there. People don't realize that their resistance to rock the boat prolong the suffering of others who will come along later.

incision 12y ago

>"I can understand not being able to fit in to a homogenous culture, but this guy is just an asshole." Clearly. Problem is, in my experience... 1.) No one wants to get involved. 2.) It's easier to be accommodating of assholes when they're directing their behavior at someone who isn't "one of you" on some level or another. 3.) It's easier to be accommodating of an asshole who also happens to be a "great engineer", "would do anything for a friend" or has their childish nonsense rationalized as "lacking people skills". I'd wager someone, likely many people in that situation knew exactly what was going on yet did nothing for one or more of the above reasons. As a group we just need to recognize that those people among us, our friends and coworkers who are shitty to the loner on the team or rude to the cleaning lady, but wonderful to their peers - they're assholes and deserve to be held to account for it.

Mangalor 12y ago
This is where HR should be available to act as a third party, but sadly that's not the real function of HR in most companies.
neolefty 12y ago
I agree, and I wonder in practical terms what I could do. I agree that it's everyone's responsibility. Here are the options I see: 1. Talk to the asshole. Fits well with the ideal "take care of it yourself" ethic, but in most cases, I don't think this will go well. Fights, defensiveness, turf, escalation, etc. Works well when asshole is not actually an ass, just ignorant. 2. Talk to HR. Seems snitchy, but it can have real results, since HR often has levers to pull here. 3. Talk to a manager (theirs or yours). Ditto. My experience is that when you're in an organization, as much as I'd like to "take care of it myself" by talking directly to the culprit, usually talking to superiors / HR is the way to go. That requires that the HR & management can handle it of course. In most cases I've seen, they know what to do. In a few, they didn't -- and that was indicative of a company that was doomed.

smm2000 12y ago

I am from Russia and at every party somebody will ask me if I drink Vodka or if I drink Vodka for breakfast or some other bullshit. When it's cold outside, somebody will say that I should not feel cold because I am from Russia like it gives some kind of immunity to cold. People do not understand that some jokes are not funny if repeated 50 times. I do not feel oppressed or not belonging though.

megablast 12y ago
Hardly the same thing. As an aussie I get asked if I used to ride a Kangaroo to school. This is not the same thing at all.
diziet 12y ago
I've heard these exact jokes time and time again. I know I should be bothered by them but like you, I do not feel oppressed, just annoyed.
forgottenpass 12y ago
People do not understand that some jokes are not funny if repeated 50 times. The proper response to these jokes is "I've never heard that one before."