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The Other Side of Diversity

• XJOKOLAT 12y ago
  Powerful and honest piece. Thanks for writing it.
• 0x0 12y ago
  If you are going to have your body text width wider than the viewport, it would be great if you also don't disable pinch-to-zoom and swipe horizontally to scroll. :) MobileSafari, iOS8
  • anigbrowl 12y ago
    Author is not running medium.com. Writing a blog post about this would be more appropriate.
    • 0x0 12y ago
      It was just a friendly heads-up that the article was basically unreadable because whole words were getting cut off each line. I don't see why it matters who runs medium in this case.
      • anigbrowl 12y ago
        Medium is more or less a blogging platform. I don't think that people who post essays on there have much control over how it displays on any given device/browser, given the minimalist text editor it provides.
        • 0x0 12y ago
          I would have imagined the choice of blogging platform is 100% controlled by the author? I'd love to comment more on the actual blog post subject, but I can't read the article, so I figured giving a headsup would be of interest to the author. Next time I'll just shut up and move on, it's not my loss.
    • peterfirefly 12y ago
      No, but she is using a theme she made herself (she links to it on her web site).
      • anigbrowl 12y ago
        That makes more sense in terms of page layout and so on. Do medium themes let you control things like zooming behavior, though?
        • peterfirefly 12y ago
          I haven't got a clue. But it was her choice to have a (pretty) background that made the text hard to read unless it was at the bottom of the photo. If she could ruin the readability by choice, I would certainly expect her to ruin the zooming behaviour too if she could.
• pnutjam 12y ago
  This article is unreadable. I enjoy light font on dark backgrounds, but the busy background insures that parts of the page are impossible to read.
• mturmon 12y ago
  Oakland definitely has its advantages. Its long working-class and radical history has left an impression on the city.
  • nailer 12y ago
    San Francisco has a lot more human foeces on the streets than Oakland does.
    • peterfirefly 12y ago
      f(a)eces?
• omonra 12y ago
  I think this is an interesting read. I personally can relate. I'm a white guy but an immigrant from Europe. Most of my friends are immigrants from the same region and I'm most comfortable around 'my people'. But that doesn't mean that I have expectations that I will be surrounded by 'my people' at work. That's how I structure my life outside of work - to be around people that I have a lot in common with. But work is work - the only commonality I expect is to be surrounded by people who are capable and know what they are doing.
  • dcole2929 12y ago
    That's part of the problem though. You are European yes but at the end of the day you are still white and to some not so insignificant part of the population that fact means more than everything else that may set you apart. Obviously I can't read the author's mind but my interpretation was not that she was bothered by not having other black women around her so much as she was by the consequences of that lack of diversity. She felt left out and passed over at times. She felt like she had to constantly defend her opinions, her self. I don't think diversity in the work place is something that is an absolute must but I think in cases where that lack creates a hostile work place for some employees there is absolutely an issue. If you're co-workers are making racist comments/assumptions about you and your manager's solution is to ship you off to another office, there is absolutely a problem.
    • omonra 12y ago
      Yes - I agree with you on how she felt. While I'm 100% in agreement that there is no room at work for racist comments (it appears that there was one issue out of 12 years), I'm not sure it's other (ie not black, not women, etc) people's responsibility to attract more people like her to the job. We should certainly have a level playing field for people to have opportunity to study and get the jobs - but if she wants more black women in tech (something I completely understand on personal level), perhaps she should make an effort towards it. How is it my problem?
      • kaitai 12y ago
• Kronopath 12y ago
  It's really nice to hear such a personal, candid take on the need for diversity. It's a refreshing change from the politically-charged generalities you often see written by your typical white male twentysomething in the tech industry when they write about diversity. Sharing these kinds of concrete, lifelong experiences really drives home the point of why it's necessary: it's not diversity for its own sake, it's for the sake of not alienating people like our author here, people who undoubtedly have a lot to contribute.
  • potatolicious 12y ago
    Indeed. I dislike the narrative that diversity is somehow desirable because it results in [better products|more productivity|better team cohesion], among many other cited reasons. These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. I get that spinning it as a "this is scientifically better and has capitalistic/rationalistic superior outcomes" may be necessary to appeal to the self-described rationalists in our industry for whom "because people feel like shit in this environment" doesn't even register. But it does feel wrong.
    • JoshTriplett 12y ago
      Seems a lot like the difference between "Free Software" and "Open Source": does the target audience care about this on principle for its own sake, or do you have to spin it as producing a better product?
    • deleted 12y ago
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    • Mangalor 12y ago
      > These may be true, but it misses the point: personal dignity is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. As a black engineer, seeing this maxim put into words really felt like lifting a weight off my shoulders. It's like, why should we have to "sell" ourselves to the majority in order to maintain a job? It's 2014, not 1914, we should be included regardless.
• coffeemug 12y ago
  > I know this: I am not my job. I am not my industry or its stereotypes. I am a black woman who happens to work in the tech industry. Just be a person. If you're a techie, a black woman, a white man, a gay man, etc. you have to start asking "what does it mean to be a techie, a black woman, a white man, a gay man, ...?" Regardless of the label you pick, you'll end up denying your own feelings and impulses to fit in with the category you choose to associate with. Some categories are more comfortable than others, but the more comfortable the category, the more people expect from you, and the more of yourself you ultimately have to deny. You are who you are, and you feel what you feel. Your own truth ought to be enough.
  • jiaaro 12y ago
    Easy to say for us straight, white men. We've all been in situations that are uncomfortable, that's not news. But imagine a time when you suddenly realized you were the only white person in the room, or the only man in the room. That feeling of, "wait... am I not supposed to be here?" I agree that we ought not to even notice, and I especially agree that we (all humans) shouldn't care. But in real life people do notice, and it's hard not to after someone points it out to you :/
    • Dewie 12y ago
      > Easy to say for us straight, white men. Coffeemug is that? Sorry but I couldn't find any racial/sex/sexuality info on his(?) profile.
    • imanaccount247 12y ago
      It is easy to say for me too, and I am neither white nor a man. It is easy to say because it is simple reality.
    • mahyarm 12y ago
      Statistically, there's a pretty good chance he would be asian instead. It's something like %60 white (which can be as varied as middle eastern, russian, western european immigrant or american, all very different) and %30 asian. Then it's about %4 black and %4 latino. In the usa, the numbers are around %64 white people, %13 black, %15 hispanic and %5 asian. Most tech companies match the % of whites as the rest of the USA, it's the asian, black and latino numbers that do not match. Blacks and latinos would have to triple and the asians would have to be divided by 7.5 to match the us numbers.
• whatyoumean 12y ago
  Black engineer here. Fresh out of college, I worked as a developer for one year and couldn't take it. Interesting work, competent teammates, but that constant feeling of unbelongingness and "sticking out like a sore thumb" -- I couldn't take it. So I went back to (grad) school. I kept telling friends and family going back to school was a "good career move". I honestly just wanted to restore my sanity. Thank you so much for writing this, it reflects my experiences perfectly. I can only imagine how additionally difficult it must be for women.
  • kylewpppd 12y ago
    I wonder how much of the "sticking out" is self-imposed. At times, I have felt the same way as you and the author have expressed. At others, I think I am making it up. It's stressful to feel like every move is scrutinized because of something I have no control over. I am tired of the "sticking out" feeling, real or imaginary. So, I started a Meetup group for black engineers. Sometimes, it's really nice to just relax and feel comfortable. No worries about someone attributing my behavior to being black, or judging all black people by something that I've said or done. Right now, I am hoping to rally folks to come to Philadelphia in 2 weeks for a black hackathon. It's a great way to network and teach. Check out http://www.mbkhack.com/ http://www.mbkhack.com/ for more info. If you're in NYC and interested, we will have a pre-meeting before we go. The link is in my profile.
    • coffeemug 12y ago
      White engineer (and startup founder) here. Could you explain what it feels like/what you think causes it in a little bit more detail? I care very deeply about diversity and making everyone feel included in our company, but it's hard to do without having a deep understanding of why people who don't feel included feel that way. What exactly do people do? Do you feel they make assumptions about what you're like? Or is it that you feel you can't be yourself because if you act the way you feel is natural and still get your work done, people mistakingly perceive you as unprofessional? For people who are in a position to change work environments and make them more inclusive, what can we do? What changes do you think we could make to accept people from different backgrounds? (I mean actually accept, not just have a friendly slogan that makes everyone self-satisfied, but doesn't actually accomplish anything) EDIT: the OP mentions obviously sexist/racist comments that border on sexual harassment. Obviously you have to instill the culture of diversity by firing people who do that the moment you overhear them. But what else can we do that might be a little more subtle/less obvious?
• jgroszko 12y ago
  This is probably the most genuine perspective I've read around women and black people in tech. It is refreshing to read actual experiences and views without general vagaries. I can only hope that as a white male twentysomething I'm not contributing to these hostile environments. As a gay man her self-actualization at the end reminded me of my own coming out in high school and college. It sucks that some people have such a hard time coming to a place of self confidence like this, and I suspect some people who never experience this otherness never have the identity crisis that leads to it. It's certainly a diffult but interesting and ultimately rewarding experience having to think critically about your own identity.
  • mrottenkolber 12y ago
    > It sucks that some people have such a hard time coming to a place of self confidence like this This. I never fit in anywhere, not because of color, gender or anything substantial really. I am just crazy stubborn and have a weird set of interests and world views. It never was a problem for me because I didn't even consider adapting. It was always an active and conscious choice to choose my own persona freely. I think the world would be a better place if everyone had a self-confidence boost. In our big organized world everybody feels so small and tends to treat himself poorly, which leads to them treating others poorly who then again feel smaller.
• thesz 12y ago
  I went to read to see the real benefit or waste of diversity and found nothing there. I really do not care about feeling of some minority member. Heck, I am a minority member if you define it properly - being able to squat 20 times 120% of my own weight, being in top 2% in IQ scale, less than average height, more than average weight, have a child in my early forties, etc. What I care of is the positive or negative things that minorities bring into teams. I've found nothing. Completely unsubstantial article. Makes me think that the only thing minorities bring is the cause for conflict.
  • deleted 12y ago
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• nemothekid 12y ago
  >He’d say things like “Did you get that bruise from your boyfriend beating you?” or “I bet your parents abused you as a child.” Really don't know what to say about this quote. I can understand not being able to fit in to a homogenous culture, but this guy is just an asshole.
  • sunir 12y ago
    The reason this perpetuates is because there is no way to win. Crush this person on legal grounds (good luck if your HR department defends the company and not you) no one will trust you again on your team. Let it ride to go along and get along, you may suffer the reputation of taking it and also have these attacks used to undermine you on the corporate ladder. Brutal and disgusting.
    • Shivetya 12y ago
      the sadder part, I have seen minority managers pick on other minorities and make comments that would never fly if from a non-minority. as one friend told me, who is going to believe him, let alone care.
    • nemothekid 12y ago
      This shouldn't be about winning some battle. It's not illegal to be an asshole - I can walk into your workplace and say "sunir's spouse is a complete idiot and shouldn't be allowed to reproduce." Likely though, I wouldn't be working there much longer. Simply put the guy is toxic and it makes me sick that it was swept under the rug. It further confuses that this happened at Google as I'd never imagined their culture tolerating a toxic work environment. Even worse if it was swept under the rug because she was a black woman.
      • seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        There are people out there who aren't necessarily toxic in general, but can say toxic things from time to time. And to be honest, if you got rid of everyone who had asshole lapses, you would be left with only the most socially capable (and not necessarily the best asocial engineering talent). Other than that, I'm not sure what the solution should be.
• diversewhat 12y ago
  I work as a consultant and am at a different company more or less every week, as a result i've made a couple of observations. As a temp/contractor, its hard to get to know people in an organisation when they know you'll only be there for a week, you might have lunch with the team one or two days, but for the most part, you'll spend a lot of your time on your own. In larger companies (I primarily work in IT environments) that are more diverse (in Australia anyway), ethnic groups stick together and speak in their native tongues. I've sat and watched a group of Indian guys/girls chat in hindi in a circle over lunch, a bunch of Chinese guys sit and chat in Mandarin while a table full of Japanese people do the same a few meters away and the two white guys (who I don't know/haven't been introduced to) sit and don't talk. What's more, no-one interacted with anyone else at all outside of their little groups. I personally find that really bizarre and I wish i could change it somehow but as i'm not even involved with the organisation other than as a contractor, its quite removed from my role.
  • humannature 12y ago
    Why are you trying to change human nature? It's in our DNA. What you observed doesn't happen just in Australia, it happens the world over. Just look at your friends, aren't most of your friends the same race as you? why? because you guys have the same language and same culture, you feel more comfortable in that group, you naturally get along better w/ that group. Humans tend to associate w/ others that look like them. No different than the animal kingdom, do you see zebras hanging out w/ horses? Or Giraffe running together w/ Elk? No. Horses gallop along w/ horses, zebras run around w/ other zebras. Humans are the same.
  • seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    Strange: when I visited our office in Bangalore, I saw most people talking in English at lunch since India has so many languages and you aren't likely interacting with someone from your part of India (most Indians don't speak Hindi).
    • diversewhat 12y ago
      Might just be a cultural thing in Australia. Really not sure. That being said, in smaller office environments, the opposite is true i've found, everyone is very accepting and quite diverse both in gender and race without any cliques forming.
• redbaron32 12y ago
  It is a good personal account. I do not know where and how the parameters will change for the next generation, or indeed for the author.
• lerno 12y ago
  I wonder what's really best / possible. Most teams / companies start up homogeneous to some extent. Also, there is plenty of conflicts possible even in a homogeneous team - it's just more clear that assholes are assholes and not just begaving like that because they're racists, homophobes etc. On the other hand, they often go hand in hand, it's just that the racist will direct his aggressions against someone looking different from themselves if possible (but they're happy to select a random victim if they can't find one)
• peterwwillis 12y ago
  First of all, thank you to this person who wrote this, this story needs to be told more often. "I know this: I am not my job. I am not my industry or its stereotypes. I am a black woman who happens to work in the tech industry. I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted." Two things i'd say about these points: 1. You don't need to change to fit within your industry, but you do need to be proactive about protecting yourself, your rights, your individuality, etc. You can not expect anyone else to fight for you. Of course your company and its employees should treat your fairly and with respect, but you should never just expect it: you should demand it. And that applies to everyone. 2. No industry will ever make everyone feel included and accepted. Even when there's a perfect racial/gender harmony, or hell, even if it was just all white males! There's still plenty of people left over who feel like they're not being included or accepted. Our industry should work to foster tolerance, acceptance, equality and respect for all people, but they're never going to make everyone feel like they fit in.
  • pessimizer 12y ago
    >You don't need to change to fit within your industry, but you do need to be proactive about protecting yourself, your rights, your individuality, etc. You can not expect anyone else to fight for you. Of course your company and its employees should treat your fairly and with respect, but you should never just expect it: you should demand it I'm not sure that you're appreciating the amount of energy that takes, year after year, and the level of hypervigilance and anxiety that entails, for an indefinite duration. That's largely what the blog is talking about, to me. All of that energy expended just because of what you are. This is before you tackle the problem that everyone has to go through - asserting who you are.
• cyphunk 12y ago
  White male engineer here. The isolation described by the author is felt by many, myself included. Obviously the issue is not a problem with my race or sex but one still closely tied to a lack of diversity in these environments. I don't see how any company can claim to be building any component of our future when its environment can scarcely represent some semblance of actual society. The IT industry has a serious "bro problem". A problem felt perhaps most vividly by the minority groups in this industry but also felt, though in a manner that may be harder to describe and even harder to justify, by many of the majority group. I doubt anyone here would want to live in a city that is 80% white male, much less have it build our future societies.
  • deleted 12y ago
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  • omonra 12y ago
    Funny that - 10 out of 10 best cities in the world were built by white males: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertypicturegalleries/9477990/The-worlds-10-best-cities-to-live-in.html?frame=2311071 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertypicturegalleries... Seem to get by ok.
    • thisrod 12y ago
      No doubt 1 out of 1 of the world's best newspapers, as ranked by the Telegraph, are written by white males too.
    • cyphunk 12y ago
      that we (in the west) live in a white mans world has until now been a given. this however should not close to the door for consideration of possible negative effects that the boys club patriarchy creates and potential benefits that might be found in breaking it apart.
      • omonra 12y ago
        Sure. But we clearly have different societies to compare - ones created/run by white and non-white men (no matriarchies unfortunately). And when I take a look around the world - I do have to give credit to those dead white men. Western Europe, AUS/NZ & US/Canada are really the nicest places I've seen - ie not just comparing beauty of nature but what people have done with the land and its resources.
• TheMagicHorsey 12y ago
  Do Indians have similar negative experiences working in predominantly white IT teams? I have many Indian friends that work in all-white teams, in middle America, as well as in the Bay Area. Are they keeping their complaints bottled up, or do they have a fundamentally different experience?
  • brandonmenc 12y ago
    Indians don't have the baggage of having been slaves, then poor and disenfranchised, in this country. They're judged by whites in a completely different way because of it.
    • dragonwriter 12y ago
      Also important, they judge and approach the white-dominated general society differently because of it.
    • treehau5 12y ago
      But they do have that baggage from their own country. The feeling of disenfranchisement is universal, and it doesn't matter where it comes from.
    • rimantas 12y ago
      Sorry, how many former slaves are now in IT?
  • boynamedsue 12y ago
    I don't think Indians, for the most part, feel a need to fit in at work. The Black experience in America is different. Being brought to America under the auspice of slavery has created a perverse assimilation issue for American Black folks. Indians have come to the US for work, education, better lives, etc. That sets a wholly different tone.
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• guelo 12y ago
  On the Oakland thing, I wish white people were still afraid of coming here. It was the best kept secret in the bay area for a long time.
  • seanflyon 12y ago
    Could you unpack your thinking a bit more? I assume that as a minority you like having a place where you are the majority?
    • rconti 12y ago
      $
  • jmorphy88 12y ago
    I wish [racial group x] were still afraid of coming here. It was the best kept secret in the bay area for a long time. Solve for x.
    • xienze 12y ago
      Nah it's cool because OP was talking about white people.
      • AlexandrB 12y ago
        Yes, it is cool. Consider what led to this situation in the first place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight But now when the issue is cheap real estate you're expecting a welcome mat?
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• pcunite 12y ago
  In the eighties my parents moved to an all-black neighborhood in an apartment complex. I felt like such an outsider and scared. I got into fights (full on punching). I was between 6-7 years old and actually wanted to be black because they did not have to get a tan like I did! But I was starting to build a dislike for them. Thankfully my mom set me straight. She let me know that when groups of the same people get together they have trouble with someone who is different. We were the minority. My mom never allowed me to be racist. I thank her so much for that. A world with all women in charge would be abusing men. A world with all purple people in charge would be abusing whites. A world with 50% on one side and 50% on the other ... would be a world in constant conflict. Humanity is not (as you might have been told) "basically good". The source of racism, anger, war ... is people.
  • q845712 12y ago
    i believe there's goodness in everybody- part of the challenge is structuring your own words+actions in a way that affords them a response that contains some measure of kindness or compassion. This is what the author of the post was doing by prioritizing getting along with her team; of course another part of the challenge is allowing others to be what they will be without being a doormat or adding to your own suffering. Super great that OP was able to recognize and commit to her own happiness. I mean we all fail, again and again, but that doesn't mean most of us don't want to be "basically good", or are incapable of being "basically good" at each moment.
    • AnimalMuppet 12y ago
      How about I split the difference? "All people have good in them." OK. I can accept that as a true statement. "The source of racism, anger, war ... is people." Also true. One might even say "All people have bad/evil in them." "Basically good"? I can't go that far. I mean, do you watch the news much? There's a fair number of "not basically good" people. Worse: I am not immune to being one of the "not basically good" people.
      • katbyte 12y ago
• seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  As a white male, I have my own related experience to share: I'm the only foreigner on my team that is otherwise completely Chinese (in China, so that makes sense); my whole lab has maybe a handful of foreigners, who, even though not homogeneous in the least, are at least bound together by our foreign-ness. We generally feel a lack of belonging; some of us try to fit in and are successful at it, but some of us just live with it. Our management team really does try to help out, but there is also some pressure to participate in lab-wide activities that leads to tension (e.g. no, I don't really want to sing, dance at the gala this year). While working, side conversations are often in Chinese (I speak Chinese better than most of us, but still not enough to participate very well), and there are all sorts of comical culture shock experiences even after being here for 7 years. And really, what can be expected when the workplace is 90%+ one way? I think our lab handles it as best as it can. Here is the twist: there is no pressure to assimilate because well, I could never be Chinese. But back in the states (or even Europe), I don't feel like I really fit in either despite matching the ethnic and gender standard. There is not much to match me to my colleagues, and there is a lot of pressure to assimilate since at first glance, I should be able to.
  • kaitai 12y ago
    I think this is really interesting: a lack of pressure to assimilate or conform because you never could belong anyway. Do you think this affects your ability to move forward in the company, if that's something you want? Even though you don't feel you fit in in the US, do you ever feel relief at just not getting attention for being different?
    • seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      I only care about my research and not climbing the ladder. My hope is that my research will be great enough that I won't have to conform to climb the ladder, but that is a gamble. > Even though you don't feel you fit in in the US, do you ever feel relief at just not getting attention for being different? I've never really had that feeling before; I never get into the situation where I feel like I'm with "my own people."
• earless1 12y ago
  I am a black (Haitian and Dominican decent) 26-year-old male DevOps Engineer living in Atlanta and I can totally understand where she is coming from. I always try to not think much of it, but somehow there is definitely this feeling that I don't belong. I could never put my finger on exactly what it is because I do get along great with my co-workers and have never seen my race as a hindrance. I just feel like there is no room for the real me, so all my co-workers get is the side of me I want them to see which is the EDM loving, Linux ninja that I'm expected to be. It is feels even worse when I go to a tech conference like the upcoming AWS re:Invent because I'm usually the only black guy around, but I still participate as much as possible and even placed in last year’s hackathon. I hope I don't come off as whiny because I still very much love what I do and would not trade it for the world. I have met and worked with some awesome people over the years and have learned so much. Sorry for the mini-rant, I just wanted to give some of my perspective on the matter
  • pnathan 12y ago
    Quite honestly, if you don't mind sharing, what's the delta between the real you and the expected you? (Also, how would you characterize 'expected you' as being different from a 'professional you' that we all live with the pressure of in the work world?)
    • earless1 12y ago
      I am not even sure how to properly describe it. My friends who know the real me know that I am more of an in your face kind of person, not in a bad or menacing way but in a way that may make some co-workers uncomfortable. I like to have spirited debates with friends, which from the outside might look like arguing or some sort of confrontation. When dealing with co-workers or people that I am not very close with I do my best to tone down my personality. I am not a small guy and certain people I've come across have even confided in me that they were for some reason intimidated by me when they first meet me. I don't think that would be the case if I were not black. not really sure what that's about Even little things like the type of music I am willing to admit I enjoy are different between peer groups. not sure if that answers your question but that kind of sums it up
• spydum 12y ago
  what can we do to help? If the answer is hiring more diverse employees for the sake of their ethnicity/cultural backgrounds, we need to accept that it involves a compromise. You no longer are opting to choose based on cost/performance of the employee. are we seriously okay with this? Isn't that demoralizing to the new hire? Now every moment, they are wondering if they got hired because of who their parents are, versus whether they earned it or not. Perhaps the real problem is not the corporate culture not catering to the employees, but the employees needing to mature a bit and learn to be comfortable with themselves regardless of social pressures. You will not always fit in culturally with your coworkers. That is just life. If you prioritize this in your own life, that is great and good for you! That is your choice about who you choose to work for (and where). However, in the article, as I stated elsewhere, the poor management and lack of HR follow up is horrendously unacceptable. Nobody should tolerate harassment at any level.
  • owenmarshall 12y ago
    > You no longer are opting to choose based on cost/performance of the employee. are we seriously okay with this? Isn't that demoralizing to the new hire? Now every moment, they are wondering if they got hired because of who their parents are, versus whether they earned it or not. If you're a white male who is honest with himself, you'll understand that being a white male carries with it a set of privileges. Just consider: a white child is significantly more likely to go to a school with experienced teachers than a black child, more likely to take honors classes in high school, more likely to get into a good university, and when they graduate, are more likely to get job offers based on nothing more than their white male name[1]. Let's not fool ourselves: humans are not the coldly rational actors we like to think. Ignore the fact that I've already got a leg up on networking because my (white male) peers work the jobs I want to work. When it's time for me to go in for an interview for a software engineering position the odds are overwhelmingly high that every person who interviews me, from the team interview up to senior management, will look a lot like me. That goes a long way in me getting the job - our monkey brains are pretty well wired to look at someone that looks like ourself and think "yeah, he's a competent, trustworthy individual!" So yeah, I don't think anyone's actually hired in the cold cost/benefit analysis you talk about. There's lots of chances for significant bias to creep in. In reality, if people were hired solely based on the criteria you talk about, and race/gender/... were not considered, I bet we'd see more diverse workforces than we have now. If someone can figure out how to set up a blinded interview that would be interesting. [1] http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf
• sarciszewski 12y ago
  Thanks for writing this. I'm sorry you had to go through all that and will try (despite cognitive biases being hard to self-correct) to never contribute to anyone experiencing the same sort of behavior. And that's really all I can offer without risking dishonesty.
• incision 12y ago
  >"I feel like there isn’t anyone who can identify with my story, so I don’t tell it." I absolutely identify. I've experienced a lot of this, but I'm a man as well as forthright and according to some - intimidating. Thing is, I expect those things carry their own challenges - being rejected outright rather than given the opportunity to suck it up.
• wyager 12y ago
  >I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted Well hold on a second. I don't agree that, when someone feels bad about something, it's everyone else's fault/responsibility. I and many others have felt excluded and/or different at times; the ideal response is to address those feelings yourself, not to blame other people.
  • 3minus1 12y ago
    It's not just her; there are many other minorities that can relate. It's not just her feelings; she's also talking about harassment and being denied opportunities.When you tell someone to keep their complaints to themselves you are actively perpetuating/enforcing the status quo. I don't know if that was your intent but you should be aware of how you come across.
    • wyager 12y ago
      >When you tell someone to keep their complaints to themselves I'm not telling anyone this. I'm saying that feeling excluded is, in this case, a personal problem, not an everyone else problem, particularly when the author admits that the only reason she feels excluded is because her co-workers don't conform to her preferred racial and social characteristics. I (and I think most people) have been in the minority before; the important thing is to accept that not everyone else behaves exactly as you do. Trying to impose your preferences on everyone else is not the fair approach.
      • steveeq1 12y ago
        Well said, couldn't agree with you more. While reading this article I couldn't help but thinking "how much of this attitude is due to perception"?
• facepalm 12y ago
  I sense a problem in that she actually "belongs" to a minority - meaning how can she expect not to be a minority at work? Or at least, why blame the workplace? If it bothers her, maybe the only option really is to move to a place with different demographics? Edit: thanks for the downvote. My question is serious. Since she is part of a minority, even in a perfectly diverse workplace she will still be in the minority. Hence the diversity movement won't fix her problem. (Just looked it up: "Blacks and African Americans" are 13.5% of the US population. So in a SCRUM team of "normal" diversity she will be the only Black woman. According to Wikipedia, a SCRUM development team consists of 3-9 individuals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28software_development%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28software_development%...).
  • sarciszewski 12y ago
    I don't have enough karma to downvote, but I can wager a guess as to why the person who clicked that arrow did so: Your post, as it is worded, can be misconstrued to sound like otherism. "You'll always be different, minority!" And you prefaced it with "I sense a problem in that..." so it can be read as blaming her for what race and gender she was born as. Or I'm totally off-base. But since the person(s) who downvoted didn't comment, I guess we'll never know.
    • facepalm 12y ago
      Thanks - that is of course not at all what I meant. I actually checked her article to see which word she used (which is minority) because I am not sure what is correct in the US. I meant minority strictly in a mathematical sense.
      • eropple 12y ago
        In the United States, "minority" is often used as a crude stand-in for "against which society is often biased". For example, "women and minorities" is a common grouping-together despite women having a percentage majority in the country.
        • 12y ago
• stcredzero 12y ago
  What my moving to the Bay Area has solidified for me, is that we as a culture do not know how to deal with group psychology. Really, it's no wonder, because the mechanisms of group cohesion and ingroup/outgroup distinction have probably been with us even longer than language has. Furthermore, practically every form of human organization uses those mechanisms for group solidarity. As a result, we are as ill equipped to deal with the consequences of group psychology as ancient greek philosophers were at dealing with aerodynamics. Because no human culture yet has the proper "mental furnishings" to effectively deal with such phenomena, the best that most people currently manage is to point out examples of everyone else's groupthink while being largely blind to our own. The way that group membership and identification distorts thought is essentially "bought into" by our language and our culture, to the point that even our attempts at dispassionate academic examinations of the phenomenon are colored by the same phenomena. http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/social-psychology-biased-republicans http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/social-psyc... I would like to thank EricaJoy for writing about such experiences so clearly.
  • sosuke 12y ago
    Just read through the thread again and I really enjoyed your comments. I just wanted to say they were well thought out and you've given me the impression you know your stuff, or are knowledgable enough to form an opinion. I am neither when it comes to psychology, but I love to read anyhow. Thanks for all the various psychology links and new reading. This was a long winded compliment, in case I lost my point along the way.
    • stcredzero 12y ago
      At this point, I just know what I don't know. I just rediscovered this page: http://lesswrong.com/lw/5me/scholarship_how_to_do_it_efficiently/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/5me/scholarship_how_to_do_it_efficie... Really, I'm just embarking on studies around such psychology. I'm beginning to think that ingroup/outgroup psychology and society's general ineffectiveness at dealing with it is a foundational problem I was meant to work on.
    • tomp 12y ago
• drdeadringer 12y ago
  The theme I kept picking up on was one of loneliness and/or isolation, born of whatever pickings of reasons. It makes me wonder if there are any 'universal ice breakers' to help solve such situations, which I sometimes see in film once every blue moon or so. [I know I watch too many movies, but one can hope for some translation to reality]
• Pxtl 12y ago
  So the obvious question for us white-guys running the team is "what the heck am I doing wrong?" I mean, if there's a complaint - I should tackle that. If I hear something, I should say something. But half the posts here are discussing nebulous feelings of "unbelonging", and I have zero idea what to do about that. So now I'm wondering what I might be doing that's creating that feeling of "unbelonging" among my team.
  • mjmahone17 12y ago
    Frankly, the person this article is most relevant to is not white guys with power. And that's a good thing. For everyone who has been in a similar situation to the author, this sort of experience hopefully can help them figure out what they want, what they value, and where they belong. But there are some clear things you shouldn't do, just from the text: - Group outings that exclude specific individuals, because of personal preference, religion, race, etc. If that means someone doesn't drink, make sure drinking isn't the only way to socialize. - Avoid people because their otherness makes you uncomfortable. This frankly just sucks, and there's not really anything the other person can do about it. - Conversely, treat people as fragile. You may not understand someone, and that's OK. It doesn't mean they'll be offended because you give them challenging tasks, it doesn't mean they should be held back from "dangerous" situations. The list goes on, but the other thing you can do, is actually listen to your reports. Ask them what they want in life. Ask them what their goals are, how their family is, what they feel best doing, when they feel most stressed out. And work to actually resolve what you can, with their help (i.e. don't just fire someone because they're avoiding someone else. That would likely be overkill, and scare the crap out of the person you were trying to "protect").
  • nnethercote 12y ago
    Just wondering about it is a small but positive first step. The next step: seek out more knowledge. Do a bunch of reading about privilege, and racism, and sexism, and unconscious bias, and micro-aggressions, and lots of other things. There are many resources on the web for this that you can seek out, but if you want a place to start, http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Feminism_101 http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Feminism_101 is one I've found useful. (If starting with a resource that's seemingly just about feminism feels too narrow, don't worry; you'll soon learn about "intersectionality" -- there's stuff about it on that very page I've linked -- and the ideas get much broader.) Follow the links, read some more, follow the links, read some more. You'll quickly see that, like all topics of interest, this one has some jargon that will sound strange at first. You'll get used to it soon enough and realize that it's useful; that these strange-sounding terms have specific meanings that encapsulate concepts helpfully. Engage your mind critically with what you read, including articles like this, and the subsequent comment threads. Empathize; put yourself in the shoes of the author as best you can. Think about which responses are reasonable, and which are unreasonable. Do this for long enough and you'll start to see patterns. You'll start to realize that certain behaviours which seem benign at first are actually problematic. You'll start to get a feeling for what might be causing the "unbelonging". I won't give you examples because (a) you can find plenty if you do some reading, and (b) it's often more effective to work them out yourself than by having them given to you. Talking with members of minorities can also be extremely helpful, but it's probably better to do some reading first. You'll likely get more out of any such discussion once you have a decent foundation of understanding. All this is doable, but it'll take some time and effort and thought. Good luck.
• e40 12y ago
  It's funny, as I was reading it I kept thinking "I can't believe she'd feel that way if she lived here, in Oakland." It was a nice surprise to find out that she liked it when she got here. I've lived and worked in Oakland for the last 13 years. Some of the people I work with, when we moved from Berkeley to Oakland, were afraid to be in Oakland. Of course, I didn't find this out until many years later, but it was shocking nonetheless. When I travel to other places, like SC/NC, I (as a white male) feel alone and isolated. I just don't subscribe to the culture there anymore (I'm from KY). It feels foreign, sterile and separated. I really don't like being there, other than visiting with family.
  • jusben1369 12y ago
    I too have lived in both places. What culture in SC/NC do you no longer subscribe to?
    • e40 12y ago
      Guns, racial separation, extreme anti-liberalism and, to some degree. It's also a place that fosters people being proudly ignorant. Anywhere that Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are so popular just freaks me out. A quick story: I was visiting in 1999 because my step mother was ill. She was at the hospital at Duke. Everywhere I went in the hospital the cleaning and cooking staff was black and everyone else was white. At least in the area I was in. I was hanging out in a lounge area once and there was a group of older guys. One was telling a joke and used the N-word several times. A few feet away there was a black guy cleaning the floor. It seemed like a skit in some comedy show. I looked around and no one gave a shit but me. Everywhere I went in the hospital, when I would encounter black people, they would never look me in the eye. Always their eyes were down and they called me "sir." I was like 34 and no one had ever addressed me like that. And, living in the Bay Area, I had never witnessed people of color being so deferential. It was shocking.
• GeneralMayhem 12y ago
  Yet another white, male engineer here. I agree with the "what am I supposed to do about it" responses. I don't think I'm doing anything exclusionary (my team does have a lot of non-whites, mostly Indian and Chinese). The guy she uses as the main example - the teammate who made the domestic abuse "jokes" - clearly should be out on his ass with a lawsuit. I think we can all agree with that. But what exactly do you want the other 99% of us who just happen to have been born into the majority to do? One theme from the article that bothered me: >diversity lightning struck: I was a black woman reporting to another black woman in a technical role. Moreover, our team was predominantly black. This sounds like she's most comfortable working only with black people - in which case, the pleas for all-inclusive diversity sound a bit hollow...
  • soamv 12y ago
    You started with asking what you can do to help, then went on to discount her experience as an outlier despite her clearly saying it wasn't, and then finished more or less by implying that _she's_ racist. So if you're asking what you should do, the answer is: the exact opposite of whatever you're doing now.
    • sosuke 12y ago
      It isn't cool to point the racism finger anywhere, but how would you describe that? If I was to say that I was uncomfortable working in a group of opposite gendered difference raced folks who were already a clique before I joined in, then said it was hard to fake being a part of that group and how much stress that put on me, and how the industry needs to change to include everyone, diversity. In the same story I talk about how great it was when I joined a same raced same gendered group and how that was diversity, would you not say I had a warped sense of what diversity means? There is no definition for a diverse group, but her one sample isn't diverse. Google searched "Picture of Diverse People" http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/7/005/056/19e/34082f9.jpg http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/7/005/056/19e/34082f9.jp...
      • bkirwi 12y ago
        If you do any reading on race and diversity, you'll come across the idea of racism as a systemic thing -- racism not as single instances of discrimination based, but a recurring pattern. This is why it's very hard to insult a white person with a racial slur. It's why 'girls who code' groups are common, but male-only versions feel pretty gross. It's why, in the context of our industry, a predominantly black dev team is really unusally diverse. (It's also a bit weird that people keep calling that example 'non-diverse', when entirely-white groups of developers are still the norm. Even a predominantly white group -- but with some people of colour -- is unusually diverse in this field, sadly.)
• smtddr 12y ago
  [American-born-Nigerian male, in tech, in SF] First, once again HN has impressed me with its overall positive reception of this article. Anyways, that East Bay comment rings so very true for me. So many times people ask me "Do you feel safe in East Bay? You're in Pittsburg? Aren't you scared?" This was extremely common with my at&t coworkers in San Ramon, California. I've been there for like 10 years; nothing has ever happened. Not even minor. Eventually, I started to take note of the people who were asking me those questions and I realized why they might be uncomfortable with East Bay. They probably had no experience with it and only heard things word of mouth from their circle of coworkers & friends.... which usually don't have a minority in 'em. One evening one of them, a lady, even admitted to me that: "You know, you're the only black person most of us really know." There are a bunch of examples of generalizing a whole area as dangerous when only really specific sections are of concern. Usually because the people doing the generalizing have no direct experience with the place, or maybe just one bad experience from one time they were there... or they just keep hearing stuff on the news that loves reporting negative stuff. Mexico, Oakland, Africa, ...etc... As for the workplace-vibe thing, I suspect being a first gen American-Nigerian gives me a different perspective than an African-American. I don't think I'm in the same situation or feel the same things as the author, but I do understand what she's saying.
• ams6110 12y ago
  I think a big part of the problem is this idea that we need to seek a sense of community, family, belonging-ness, whatever you want to call it... at work. That has never been my mode. Work is work. I don't do the after work bar scene, the weekend team-builders, golf outings, etc. It's all senseless especially for engineering types. Keep work cleanly compartmentalized. Your community should be outside of work.
• wldcordeiro 12y ago
  With this title I was expecting an article by someone who is white in a mostly non-white work environment.
• wldcordeiro 12y ago
  I work in a rather diverse but small development team, we consist of: 1 Bangladeshi woman 2 Brazilian men (myself and another) 1 Chinese woman 1 White man The Chinese lady and the white guy are our mobile team and the rest of us work as web developers. We all get along really well and I don't think there's much in/out grouping in our team. Still it's good to see the side of those that haven't been as fortunate in team distribution. Quick note: The other Brazilian and I are definitely on the more fair skinned side but I wouldn't say either of identify as white.
• mklim 12y ago
  It kind of pains me to consider this, especially since it's one of the reasons I got involved with software development in the first place—but I wonder how much these issues are caused by the field's close ties to geek/gamer culture. I know I love being able to work with people that caustically say "Make it so" when they deploy to master. I love being able to chat about the latest videogames with my coworkers over lunch. I love being able to swap scifi/fantasy novel recommendations and stumble upon test user models named things like "Zaphod." It brightens my day to see references like that, and having so much common ground to talk about with my coworkers is quite frankly a new and exciting experience after having to deal with being the odd person out through most of my time growing up. But I also can imagine that being forced to deal with what is essentially a foreign culture 24/7 would be really alienating and probably a little frustrating for your average person. No common interests, all these weird references littered through the code and the jokes people make over coffee that you don't get because you never played that one videogame that came out in the 80s. And women tend to be into geek/gamer culture less often than men are, so you would see gender discrimination arise out of that, however unintentional. I read a study recently that found that female undergraduates are less likely to say that they would be interested in computer science as a career if asked about it in a room decorated with Star Trek posters vs a room decorated with generic nature posters (http://depts.washington.edu/sibl/Publications/Cheryan,%20Plaut,%20Davies,%20%26%20Steele%20%282009%29.pdf http://depts.washington.edu/sibl/Publications/Cheryan,%20Pla...). I don't have any kinds of solutions about this. Like I said, that's one of the things I really love about my field. But I think it might be contributing.
  • GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    Personally as someone who gets all the references, it's tiresome as fuck.
• beatpanda 12y ago
  Don't listen to her, 100% of the East Bay is extremely dangerous, full of people literally waiting in the shadows to murder you and take all of your valuables.
  • steveeq1 12y ago
    Straw man.
    • beatpanda 12y ago
      No, I'm really just trying to keep the HN crowd on the western half of the Bay. BECAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS! SO DANGEROUS! IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!
      • hypatiadotca 12y ago
        well played.
  • Mangalor 12y ago
    can't tell if you're joking.
• ThePantySnacher 12y ago
  You're not incubated properly given the environment from which you have came from. There for lacking many many years of experience. It has nothing to do with your race, sex or age. Its simple, this environment does not provide the diversity in science and arts for this unique artisan career choice. If you're not that type of person, with hunger, passion and some cleverness...then your out of luck, you're not an engineer, nor a scientist and you'll have to except only being a code jockey. Coming to HN and complaining about how wonderful you are and how racists the industry is will not do you any good in the real world, If you lack the skill set. Its necessary to understand most of the successful here have been working on these types of problems since we were 5, with nothing other then the motive of "how does this thing work" and "can I make it do this instead". My advice, take a scientific approach since it is the field you're in and prove yourself first. Have the idea, figure it out, prove it works, then show them it works.
  • pistle 12y ago
    Your grammar is poor. Your message and logic is more important and worse. I am so glad I'm not dealing with you on my team. If you would be so kind as to place a link to your CV, it will do us both a favour.
  • theothermkn 12y ago
    You felt free to personally attack the author of the article in an unsubstantiated manner, so I feel free to personally attack you, but with substantiation. > You're not incubated properly given the environment from which you have came from. This diagnosis is striking in its offensiveness, unfoundedness, entitlement, ignorance, and blatant racism and sexism. You sir, are a steaming pile of vile racist shit. How dare you invalidate someone's being, in the first place. In the second place, how dare you do so with the veiled "from which you have came from." You mean, because she's black. At least have the courage to come out and say it, you coward. > There for lacking many many years of experience. In addition to lacking the barest iota of sophistication, you also lack a spellchecker. I prefer my racist reading material to at least be properly spelled and grammatically correct. Perhaps you lack experience at reading and writing. > It has nothing to do with your race, sex or age. Its simple, this environment does not provide the diversity in science and arts for this unique artisan career choice. This word salad is difficult to parse. By "this environment," are you referring to the "tech industry" or to the author's childhood and young adult environment? I'm actually not sure which is the more repulsive, nor how either meaning can be reconciled with this having "nothing to do with ..race, sex[,] or age." For future reference, you ignorant piece of shit, diversity has everything to do with race, sex, and age, among a wide array of other categories. > If you're not that type of person, with hunger, passion and some cleverness...then your out of luck, you're not an engineer, nor a scientist and you'll have to except only being a code jockey. A similar statement could be made, more correctly, about the kind of engagement with the life of the mind that lets people see the mechanisms of discrimination and inequality in society. If one puts no effort into it, if one relies instead on whatever makes one most comfortable and most smug in their own status quo, one ends up like you, the moral equivalent of a code monkey, unable to articulate anything but the dreariest of racial cliches about meritocracy. > Coming to HN and complaining about how wonderful you are and how racists the industry is will not do you any good in the real world, If you lack the skill set. Its necessary to understand most of the successful here have been working on these types of problems since we were 5, with nothing other then the motive of "how does this thing work" and "can I make it do this instead". You are probably too stupid to see that you have provided an uncharitable interpretation of the article. I would love to hear--I take that back; I would be loathe to hear--you defend your interpretation that the author described herself as one-sidedly wonderful in an article where she details that she went to therapy. You also presumed to tell her that she "lack[ed] the skill set." Oh. My. Fucking. God. Fuck. Off. You. Racist. Asshole. You have literally no idea about the author's skill level, engagement, desire to make things work, and so on. Additionally, your analysis depends upon outright calling her a liar with regard to her assessment of her work environment. Have you fucked off, yet? Because you really, really need to. (After replacing your vile comment with an apology for your racist screed.) > My advice, take a scientific approach since it is the field you're in and prove yourself first. Have the idea, figure it out, prove it works, then show them it works. You want a colon after "My advice," not a comma. Jesus. Your advice. Holy shit. You are just precious. Bless your little heart. You and your kind are the problem. You have no place in modern society. Your retrograde attitudes and toxic privileged naivete are precisely the things to which the author pointed to in her amazing and honest piece, and from which you could so fruitfully learn if you weren't, as I suspect, a wholly irredeemable racist asshole. I cannot speak for HN as a whole, but you are not welcome, as far as I am concerned. Please delete your 15-minute-old account and go back to lurking, you vile bigot.
• ThePantySnacher 12y ago
  You're not incubated properly given the environment from which you have came from. There for lacking many many years of experience. It has nothing to do with your race, sex or age. Its simple, this environment does not provide the diversity in science and arts for this unique artisan career choice. If you're not that type of person, with hunger, passion and some cleverness...then your out of luck, you're not an engineer, nor a scientist and you'll have to except only being a code jockey. Coming to HN and complaining about how wonderful you are and how racists the industry is will not do you any good in the real world, If you lack the skill set. Its necessary to understand most of the successful here have been working on these types of problems since we were 5, with nothing other then the motive of "how does this thing work" and "can I make it do this instead". My advice, take a scientific approach since it is the field you're in and prove yourself first. Have the idea, figure it out, prove it works, then show them it works.
• droopybuns 12y ago
  white, suburban early 40's here. I felt the appeal of punk rock in my teens and have never looked back. As a part of the majority stereoptype, I still don't feel like I fit in. Am I wrong to think that this is actually part of the human condition? Could it be that we confuse racial tension for the fact that we all kind of long to belong but at the same time sit in judgement of everyone else?
  • Mangalor 12y ago
    Black, late 20's here. It's different. There have been times when I've felt excluded for reasons completely not having to do with my race. Surely there are some shared themes with every other person, but the first time you see an instance of someone treating you worse just because of the color of your skin it makes you want to punch straight through a wall.
    • droopybuns 12y ago
      I appreciate your perspective. Your reaction is understandable. My general feeling on working with my teams is one of social dread. I just don't feel like I have a lot in common with people in general. I think popular culture is pretty carcinogenic- so when people engage in small talk about the local sports teams or whatever thing happened on must-see-tv last night, I get anxious.
• mbubb 12y ago
  I spent much of August and September job searching in NYC - looking at small startup and post-startup, tech-driven companies. looked at hundreds of "The Team"; "About Us" or "Leadership" pages on corporate sites and it is striking how much of a monoculture tech is... I don't think anyone really 'fits' but that is another discussion. On a personal level it is impossible not to empathize with the author. Not sympathize as I am closer to the model (though a bit long in the tooth). I've even had jobs where I was in a subordinate position in a black owned business (I parked cars in a black theatre at my university). I would never use that to say I understood. What the author describes is profound and frightening. We are so split. It is hard to see how to begin to fix it. And though I would never question her experience and feelings about this - I don't think this is true: "My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted." At the moment this is typically more of a 'PR' goal than an actual business goal. A wishful image rather than a real strategic initiative. I do not think that there is a real capitalist driver behind this statement. Or maybe there is and I just don't see it.
• no_future 12y ago
  I've said this before, but I have absolutely no sympathy for people who think that there is something wrong with the fact that everyone in their workplace is not exactly the same as them(the author explicitly points out several times how she was the only black/female person in her workplace as if it was some kind of travesty). To me this only shows that they are the ones mainly causing the problem, not the imagined institutionalized racism/sexism that they rant about. A bunch of different people from different backgrounds working together and doing great things is what America is all about, and one of the things that makes it a great country. For these people the fact that they and their colleagues share a common interest in whatever they are working on(or I would hope so), is not enough, and they are too immature and entitled to get over the fact that there exist people different from them. There are people who come to this country and speak almost no english - think how they must feel - but you don't hear them complain about it. If you want to see more women/minorities in the workplace, by remaining in it you are being the change, which is a positive thing, but instead these people quit and then go whine on their blog while painting themselves as some kind of hero for quitting. If you are this much of an entitled, sniveling ingrate then I don't see how you could make any kind of positive contribution to your industry, so good riddance I say. Ironic, considering "Diversity" is about celebrating differences, and not pointing them out as if they were a negative thing. I'm not saying that prejudices are nonexistent, but I don't think they are as prominent as these people make them out to be.
  • _pmf_ 12y ago
    I see the article as an indication of a person who does not know what she wants out of life and is therefore continually disappointed. I've seen this happen to single, non-children white males, too (not excluding myself), at least to some extent.
• mbubb 12y ago
  I wish those regrettable sensitivity videos that I have sat through too many times dealt with this: " I immediately did not fit in, because I didn’t look the part. My coworkers walked on eggshells in my presence, so I did my best to make them feel comfortable around me so that I would be included. I laughed at their terribly racist and sexist jokes, I co-opted their negative attitudes, I began to dress as they did, I brushed it off when they made passes at me. I did everything I could to make them feel like I was one of them, even though I clearly was not." Well written.
• noobermin 12y ago
  A lot of comments have already been posted here, so it's most likely the case that this won't be seen, but I feel like sharing. One of my problems about complaints for "diversity" is that for many people, it's usually "why isn't _my_ kind represented so I can hang out with them instead of X group?" Whites are happy to be with whites, blacks seems to be content mixing with blacks, latinos with latinos, asians with asians, etc. People only seem to complain when they are the only asian or the only black kid around, and they feel left out. Sure, that's normal to feel, but I don't see how having isolated equivalence classes makes any set of people "diverse" or any happier, save the people feel at home with their baramin. May be for me, I'm just so interested in other cultures and people that I (try to) make friends with all races and (more importantly) individuals. Or may be it's because I don't have a "kind" to mix with as elaborated below. In any case, the version of diversity that I want accepting and being friends with someone even when that person isn't like you. It means giving a chance to those who aren't like you, and may be finding common bonds that you both could share. It means being interested and respecting others viewpoints, while not necessarily changing your own. Hell, this covers not just race relations, but sexual orientation, gender, a host of other things, right? I'm a pacific islander and an "enrichment fellow" at some physics graduate program somewhere. Yes, that's code for a diversity/affirmative action fellowship, I suppose. I am a minority, but something that makes my experience different from others is that I didn't grow up with "my kind" because not many of "my kind" exist (probably around 100,000 in the world in order of magnitude). I grew up in Long Beach, CA surrounded by people of different backgrounds and races (mostly white, I guess), and went to a Catholic private school. In fact, I moved back to Palau [1] and hated it at first because I didn't fit in. It's probably because of this background that makes me really not understand the concept of race and especially identifying with it. Identifying with a culture or subculture makes some sense to me--I have bits of Palau and bits of US culture in my personality because I lived in both places--and that is as far as it matters to me, how much that affects your personality. I do in general find cultures interesting as anyone would, but in evaluating a person, I really only care about personality. [1] "Moved back to"? I like to think of it as my parents moved back and 8 year old me came along, I had never been in Palau before.
• mbubb 12y ago
  Beautifully written and gut wrenching. I hate the fact that I have no idea what to do to help you if you were my coworker. I am not talking about obvious things like horrible jokes and unwelcome advances. How to make day to day life easier? How to do away with the ‘eggshells’?
• runewell 12y ago
  I grew up in rural Kentucky. People were polite to me but there was always this strange distance I would encounter when interacting with people, a distance that my friends never seemed to receive. I always chalked it up to my personality. I became a bit of an introvert, took on a passion for computer science, and moved to Silicon Valley after graduation. I fit in splendidly and for the first time in my life I felt like I was part of a real community. It was at this point that I started getting asked "Are you white or Asian?" by many people. It was a completely innocent question but it surprised me so much that I mentioned it in a conversation with my old friends and to my amazement they all wanted to know the answer as well. It blew my mind. Here I was, a 22 year old white guy from rural Kentucky, who just found out he was Asian. No one bothered to tell me growing up, it made me feel both incredibly stupid and somewhat perplexed. Pieces of my past started falling into place all of a sudden. All the strange looks I used to get on the field as a little redneck kid topping tobacco during the summer. The old white farmers at the local BP station asking me questions about the world as if I held some sort of mystic wisdom. My ex-girlfriend who would constantly mention how much she liked Asian guys before we started dating. All of these things and more just hit me like a bag of bricks and I laughed my ass off for a good 10 minutes. My grandmother was Japanese and my mom was half but as a child I was a blonde white kid so as I got older and my hair darkened it never occurred to me that I was anything else. Now that I'm older I kind of like it. My differences, although superficial, make me feel closer to my late mother and grandmother who were both wonderful people.
  • beachstartup 12y ago
    i'm fully asian with a white last name. when people meet me for the first time after communicating with me electronically they're always a little surprised. although, in my case i can see them kind of experiencing a little cognitive dissonance, which is fun.
    • deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    • stcredzero 12y ago
      One of my professors though I was Hungarian. Turns out, my Korean Catholic name is also a perfectly good Hungarian one, if you don't see the middle one spelled out.
• khattam 12y ago
  "I don’t need to change to fit within my industry. My industry needs to change to make everyone feel included and accepted." Erm... so I guess basketball should change to include short Thai guys too? Or maybe Thai guys should stick to martial arts and weight lifting?
  • Mangalor 12y ago
    Kind of in bad taste to answer one story of racism with more racism. Also, making a work environment more inclusive for minorities should not be as hard as playing Peter Dinklage against Yao Ming.
• whycat 12y ago
  White, male here. I moved to the US 3 years ago. I worked at a rather "diverse" company. 3 White Males (2 of them foreigners from Europe, including myself) 1 White Female 2 Black Males 2 Black Females 2 Hispanic Males 1 Asian Female Diverse, not because we had some HR person make sure we can write a cute blog post for HackerNews on how great our "diverse workspace" is., but because it just came into place like that. We all shared the same office space. I never felt uncomfortable and neither did anybody else (not that i know of). We all got along very well. Coming from Germany, i got thrown a Nazi joke a few times. I know how it was ment and how to take it. Or as a fan of old school hip-hop, i found myself at concerts with a 80% black crowd. Did I, in that moment, realize that i am "the white kid"? Yep. But guess what: I don't care. I don't go on HackerNews and cry about it. Overall: if everybody could stop being so sensetive. Grow up. People are different. Some people aren't nice. Learn to deal with it. > I did what I thought I had to do to survive in the environment. I once again donned the uniform to fit in. Jeans, “unisex” t-shirt, Timbuk2 messenger bag. I stayed late playing multiplayer Battlefield, I quickly learned a bunch of classic rock songs so I could play Rock Band and Guitar Hero with the team, I don’t like beer so I went out to beer taverns and drank water. The only person that is making you uncomfortable are you yourself. Really, wear what you like, play whatever you like, listen to the music you like. In the case of the guy with the domestic abuse "jokes": that is a total different thing. That's not being racist or sexist, it is just being an asshole and legal steps against that guy should be taken.
  • rimantas 12y ago
    > Overall: if everybody could stop being so sensetive. Grow > up. People are different. Some people aren't nice. Learn > to deal with it. I doubt it is possible in US (and starts spreading elsewhere). You cannot learn to deal with it when you are thought the opposite from the early days.
  • bitroliest 12y ago
    This is very similar to my experience. I'm from a south american country so I get the "do you feel safe?" and the "what was like to grow up in poverty?" - not to mention the 'la raza' type of comments. These stereotypes are annoying but it's whatever, you shrug it off and find something to make fun of the people saying those things - 'Do you go through withdraws if you don't eat your frosted flakes every morning?' Do I feel like I belong in a group of people from my country? Well, maybe? If I know them and I'm friends with them. If I do, it sure as hell isn't because they're from my country but because they're good people. My primary group of friends is all WASP (white anglo-saxon protestant), and I don't feel like an outcast. > Overall: if everybody could stop being so sensetive. Grow up. People are different. Some people aren't nice. Learn to deal with it. YEP. That's it. The world will be a better place once people stop hating other people based on their physical characteristics and start hating them unconditionally.
• ylem 12y ago
  I have to start by saying that I’m incredibly impressed not only by the article, but by the level and tone of the discussion here. I am a vegetarian, agnostic, non drinking, black physicist. Like many of you, I grew up reading fantasy and science fiction. I loved playing video games (I started with the C-64 and also wrote some of my own) growing up. Like most of you, I was also advanced in math and despite growing up in a college town, felt isolated, but it could have been much worse! Like some of you, I also took my first graduate courses in physics and math at 18. Unlike some of you, I’ve also experienced racism (police stops, being asked if I’m in the right neighborhood, etc.). At least for a number of physicists, mathematicians, and other technical folks, I would say that I’m fortunate to share a certain sense of humor and certain bit of “geek” culture. One of my coworkers recently threw a halloween party and there were a number of crypto-costumes. One of my friends/coworkers (who incidentally grew up on a farm) was a gnome of the resistance who was wearing an armband which represented 1 Ohm. My point is that within any culture, there are shared jokes, references, etc. that someone not from that culture wouldn’t get. I think that is part of the difficulty that the OP faced. My impression (which could be wrong) is that while she was extremely willing to explore the culture at her workplace, it was never really hers. Rather, it was an imperfect mask that she put on to try to get along with her coworkers. Also, as a black woman, I think that some people probably feel comfortable saying some things that they would not feel comfortable saying to me as a black man (I have another friend who is a female black physicist and she has encountered far more overtly racist statements from people than I ever have). Some people have asked what they can do as part of the majority culture to make minorities feel more welcome. One thing I would suggest is shutting down outright hostile individuals hard. There are some people who are just ignorant. For example, when I was traveling once through a small area in Mexico, a young girl told me she never had seen hair like mine and wanted to feel it. I thought this was rather innocent (though probably wouldn’t make sense in a workplace setting.) and let her. I was fortunate to briefly study abroad in Japan (Hikone) when I was middle school and a number of people (adults and children) had strange ideas about blacks in the US, but it was easy to talk (well outside of the language barrier :-p), but I think there is a clear dividing line beyond someone who is just curious, or misinformed, as compared to someone who is creating a hostile work environment (such individuals should be fired). If one looks at the social networks in the US, there are a number of people in the majority culture who have had little if any significant social interaction with a number of minorities, so there is naturally a great deal of ignorance and confusion. As minorities, I think we can expect this--but on the same hand, I can understand how some people feel tired or awkward explaining things over and over again to clear up misconceptions. Perhaps the easiest way to understand a bit of the feeling is to spend some time in a place where you are not in the majority. For example, some white friends who have lived in Japan for extended periods of time have felt a degree of isolation there. Some other posters have mentioned their experiences as being part of the minority and the isolation that has resulted from that. One other thing that people in the majority could do to help would be to actively challenge their subconscious. For example, there is the halo effect in which people transfer one positive attribute (beauty) into others (ex. intelligence). Looking at a number of the talks on Altman’s startup school, a number of early founders hire their friends. Then, in some cases, they hire friends like them. In some sense this is natural. But due to network effects, (a number of people in the majority may have few if any minorities in their network) this can result in minorities having few opportunities to enter these startups at an early stage. If applications come in from outside of the network, consider them. Also, while it’s great to socialize with your coworkers and feel that they’re someone that you would like to socialize with, I think that it’s important to make room for people whose social activities are different. This also becomes important when it’s time to make promotions, give raises, etc. Also, critical information shouldn’t only be available at social gatherings. It’s not easy, but I think it will make it easier to include people from different backgrounds. Though at the workplace, people should definitely be able and willing to work well with their teammates. I think it’s also important to establish a culture in which differences are accepted. For example, I’m a nondrinker--I don’t push others not to drink, but also don’t like others to try to push me to drink (the same goes for religion and diet). I think that managers and early employees can set a tone that it’s ok for people to do their own thing and still be accepted. It seems like the people at the workplaces that she was at did try to include her in activities that they found enjoyable, it’s just that these were not activities which she truly enjoyed. This can be a challenge--I think for a number of us, there is an increasing overlap between our work and social lives. We spend long hours with our coworkers. We go to parties at each other’s homes, we do activities like hiking, gaming, happy hours etc. together. In these contexts, we inevitably talk shop and talk business. If someone doesn’t attend these activities, then they will miss out on this. On the one hand, merit can still be recognized, but on the other hand, some people could be left out of the loop. I will say that a number of people at my workplace try to organize family friendly activities outside activities, but depending on the size of the company and the relative ages of people, it’s easy to see how young parents could be left out given their time commitments. Some people have remarked on her statement of feeling at home in Oakland because there were more black people there, or on teams that were more diverse. For those of you who have lived for extended periods outside of your home country, have you ever missed something from back home. Perhaps the sound of your native tongue (for a number of blacks, the dialect that is spoken at home can be different from that spoken at work)? A particular dish? A certain set of shared assumptions based on common experiences? I think that this part of what she feels. For her though, I would suggest that she try to assimilate less. If you’re a unicorn, own it. I think trying new activities is great. But, putting up with racist and sexist jokes is ridiculous. I think that she would have been happier if she made it clear that she was fun and easy to get along with and willing to do activities like gaming with people and to be social. But, she should draw the line at dealing with some types of behavior. I don’t know what her job and life situation were like at the company where she had to deal with the truly racist guy who was creating a hostile environment, but if HR wouldn’t get involved, then she should have moved up the command chain or left. There are some environments that simply aren’t worth being in (I realize that not everyone has the luxury to make such choices). I will say that my current workplace gets a lot right. People like working there and for the most part my coworkers play well with others. They are smart, but I think that is part of the hiring decision--you might be able to afford a small number of people who can only work alone, but at least for us, you really need to be able to work with other people. Also, a lot of individuals make efforts to have social activities where they try to include other people (instead of just small cliques). It’s not required, but it’s nice--especially since we have a large international population who doesn’t have family in the area--even most of us who are domestic are transplants from other states and cities. I really hope things work out for this young woman!
• j45 12y ago
  Diversity is real and lasting if it exists from the top of any organization or society, to the bottom. In that order. Attempting to seed diversity from the front lines upward almost always slows, and fails. Where you have diverse front line bankers and their managers,diversity seems to dissapear as you go up the org chart. Often, this means to imply some diversity is actually diversification to interface with consumers, but not truly create lasting, diverse progress. When I hear diversity, I ask myself to measure it by its highest presence and practice in management.  If it's missing, a culture and practice of diversity is missing. Going for curry for lunch with the Indian guy isn't it. To beliefs that see diversity difficulties from two cultures tiptoeing around each other: no one exclusively owns kindness, professionalism, goodness or the practice of being any of these things. We deny ourselves and others the dignity of humanity and being treated humanely when we do not take a minute to learn someone's story and humanize them, instead feeding division. When not focused on inclusiveness, diversity quickly becomes division. Reading so many stories about the symptoms and experiences of "diversity", or lack thereof reinforced my beliefs: 1) Don't be an overt badge or token. If anything, be a lot of badges so your diversity is just one of them. Use it for good and encourage your white friends to use their white privilege for good. 2) It's a reality to deal with any -ism. Age, "race" , gender, religion. People do not fight over these things as much as fighting over interpretations of these things. Some will always look for the easiest thing they can find to marginalize others with. Take it as a sign you are doing something right, if the narrow minded folks are threatened by you. 3) Not choosing the family you were born into, or the color of your skin, nor choosing your gender before you were born is a pretty small minded way to practice bias.  Ignorants will be dumbfounded when you say you didn't pick the family you were born into, when they mistreat you just for that.  4) If I end up in a room where I get half the respect as anyone, and I have to be twice as good to get equal respect, four times as good to be special,  and eight times as good to be extraordinary.... 5) Do I give up when challenged to be 8 times better,  or walk away with the ability to drink from a firehouse when others can't breathe?   Would such a talent help,  or hurt building the life of my dreams and using it to be on a path of service and compassion towards all of humanity? The above could lead to some people feeling disconnected and disillusioned from their citizenship in their community, humanity. It's never fazed me too much because I did have a diverse group of friends who took a minute to turn this strangers so easy to marginalize, into a person and in some cases a friend. A side effect of pursuing extremely positive self growth is all the haters (who are self-haters first) become a servant to your achieving more than your potential.  It also can fuel jealousy because most often haters are busy doing nothing themselves near the 8x you're capable of,  thanks to them. Nindho.
• ExpiredLink 12y ago
  Reminds me of the Oprah Winfrey story some time ago. She tried to buy a luxury handbag in a shop in Switzerland (Winfrey is hardly known in Europe, BTW). The shop assistant treated her badly and Winfrey interpreted it as racist. It turned out that shop assistants there treat all customers badly 'irrespective of the person'.
  • codygman 12y ago
    "I go into a store and say to the woman, 'Excuse me, may I see that bag over your head?' and she says to me 'No, it's too expensive.'" http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/world/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/ http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/09/world/oprah-winfrey-racism-swi...
• borplk 12y ago
  I don't mean to discount or take away from the difficulties that the author is addressing but as a migrant I can't help but to laugh a bit at some of the complaints I hear here and there about 'sticking out' and 'isolation'. You stick out at work? I stick out everywhere I go. If you feel out of place and isolated try moving to a completely different country on your own and try living there for a few years. That's when you realise how much you belonged and you didn't even realise.
• known 12y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Putnam#Diversity_and_...
• ownagefool 12y ago
  I’m not saying Racism and Sexism isn’t a terrible and real thing. They both exist and are terrible. However, I just want to highlight that many of the people you feel have an easy time fitting in, because they’re white and male, don’t. They feel just like you, but there isn’t a single obvious issue they can point at blame. They raise the same issues with HR, they get stonewalled just like you. This is often just an issue of group dynamics where there are the strong personalities and weak. If you misappropriate that as something else, you won’t find any sympathy within the group. That said, if you really are being passed up because you’re black of female, there is a problem with that and it should be sorted out. However, I often get passed up for jobs I can do better than the guy who landed it. I’ve never assumed that it’s because I’m Scottish working in London even though it probably occasionally is for that reason.
  • pluma 12y ago
    I think the problem is that it's hard to tell which particular facet is at play here. In all likelihood her problems are at least heavily influenced by her race and gender, even if those factors are neither the base nor the entirety of it. Non-white, non-men start out from a severely disadvantaged position in our society in general and in the industry in particular. I presume this simply serves as a magnifier when it comes to the problem others (namely white men) would experience in the same situations. Plus the gender/race card is obvious for both sides (i.e. she is more likely to blame negative experiences with other people on it, but they may also be more likely to explain her behaviour with it). Consider her reservations about acting in a way that might affirm stereotypes, for example. The entire situation is so messy and taboo-laden from the get-go that it's difficult to assess what's really going on here and what the chain of events was for each individual situation, but it's empirically obvious that there is a very real problem and race/gender is a major factor. EDIT: Also remember that "race" can be a misleading term. It's often about culture and cultural biases about other cultures -- ethnicity just tends to be a handy shibboleth. As an anecdotal example: in Germany (and likely other parts of the EU too) you are often at a serious career disadvantage if you have a Polish or Eastern European accent, even if you are very good at what you do, especially if you also happen to be female (though the exact stereotypes you face might again depend on your age). It doesn't even have to be a national thing, you might also face negative stereotypes if you have a regional accent (think Eastern in Germany or Southern in the US).
• tomiko_nakamura 12y ago
  I wonder how long they've been looking for a background image distracting enough ...
• ck2 12y ago
  One of the better articles I have ever read linked on HN
• bane 12y ago
  This is a great and brave article. I'm a white male. As a young child I grew up in a poorer city apartment complex and most of the time, of all the children there I'd be 1 or 2 of 30 or 40 kids who was white or a native English speaker. I can't say I was ever a "minority" there, because everybody was a minority there. Looking back, I'm amazed that we were ever able to organize any games to play because so few of us all spoke the same language. Perhaps due to this, I always felt most comfortable in that kind of ultra-diverse environment. When I was older my family moved to a very rural, very white area, and I never quite got comfortable with it. These days, when I visit one of the ultra-diverse North-East American cities, D.C., Philly, NYC, or even London, I can almost feel my inner self relaxing. Even though my take on it is different, in that sense I understand the author's feelings about Oakland, you feel most relaxed in the environment you grew up in. Still, diversity is quite hard. In my professional life I've tried to adopt a policy that's a little different than many diversity programs. Many programs want you to be "diversity-blind", meaning you strive to have a mix of people from different backgrounds, but then you ignore that difference. I fundamentally disagree with this. I think you should strive for diverse backgrounds, but then recognize and celebrate people's differences. Respect them for who they are and where they come from. I know that this is difficult to do sometimes for a couple reasons: a) some people may be doing what the author was doing and desperately trying to fit in, recognizing that they are different runs counter to their effort b) we come into this with lots of our own perceived biases and stereotypes which can color the way we're trying to recognize people's differences I think that a) is the biggest problem we need to overcome as a society. Of course there's a measure of "fitting" in to any group dynamic that an individual has to do, but when the balance swings too far in the group's favor, that individual loses their own uniqueness and their own identity and like the article discusses, it's ultimately stressful and damaging to that person. b) is also a problem, and despite growing up in a pluralistic childhood environment, I still have my own biases and stereotypes that I bring into a relationship with anybody. For example, though I grew up in an immigrant heavy neighborhood, I never met and know somebody from South Asia (India, Pakistan, etc.) until I was well into high school. I have a personally broken model about people from these places that I'm working to improve. Still, I think the effort of overcoming these kinds of biases makes us better people in the end, and makes a better environment for our co-workers and friends. We can recognize people for who they are and what they can bring to the table both as an individual, and as a representative of the group and culture they feel they're naturally part of. Some anecdotes I chew on that have stuck with me: - An old coworker, white, male, grew up in a military town and hung around with the self-described hip-hop crowd, his wife is East Asian, feels like he's understanding and sympathetic on diversity. I overheard him telling a black coworker that he feels that there's really no more racism in the U.S. and that any perceived racism is brought onto people by themselves. My black co-worker tolled him that just the day before he and his brother were driving around town, at the speed limit (he's a careful driver) and were pulled over and searched for drugs with no probable cause. He called it "driving while black". - My wife is Korean, at a company she used to work at, she started coming under aggressive sexism and racism from a new CTO. She fought back against it (and became deeply, deeply depressed through the battle until she quit the job). At one point, with HR present, the CTO said "I'm surprised you're this upset about things, I thought Asian women were more demure and subservient." - Another old co-worker, black, pointed out to my work group one day that he's immensely proud of hip-hop and other black music and culture because of the oversized impact it's had on American culture. His statement has caused me to reevaluate and rethink and see many culturely American things through this lens.
• rapidally2 12y ago
  There were three black women at my last workplace. One of them had a positive attitude and everyone treated her wonderfully. She seemed happy, and her and I were good friends. The other two complained constantly, and would whisper to the other black woman (who relayed it to me) that race 'kept her down'. Those two weren't happy, and if they were excluded it was due to their attitude more than anything.
• powertower 12y ago
  The other side to this is that - she feels much more comfortable in a non-diverse environment where people look like her, talk like her, are her gender and color, had similar upbringings, etc. ...And there is nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly normal. Diversity on the other hand, whenever I read about it, see statistics about it, etc, seems to always produce conflict.
• shaurz 12y ago
  This is why multiculturalism will never work. People are most comfortable living and working with similar people who look and think in similar ways. It's human nature and no amount of diversity brainwashing can overcome it. Clearly she rightly feels like an outsider in the white male group and even would if every white man made the maximum effort to be "inclusive". And the white men naturally felt uncomfortable with a black women in the group. In the current political climate it's not possible for people to admit their true feelings on the matter without being instantly labelled an "ist" (racist, sexist, etc.) but we can only go on denying human nature for so long...
• AndrewKemendo 12y ago
  The result was that I avoided the one place in the Bay Area I could go and feel not so different. It never dawned on me that the people who were telling me not to go there were the people who might go there and feel uncomfortable. Oh man, this is exactly what happened to us when we moved to D.C. Everyone we knew said "Oh, you don't want to live in Prince Georges County, it's bad there." When we realized the people who said that look very different than the PG county demographic, it became clear what their reservation was. This article really hit home to me as well though because as a mixed race guy I never really fit in anywhere, but can kind of blend in no matter where I go - a double edged sword. As bad as it sounds, my father (black) was the one who self assimilated into white culture from birth (he was adopted) such that I grew up just assuming we were white, especially given that my mother is white. When I look back on it, that was a huge benefit in some cases where I feel comfortable in the (largely white) networks of power and elitism, but also makes me feel like it kind of cedes the game. At the end of the day though, I don't identify as any race or culture other than "American" and with that approach I almost never have issues assimilating.
• stevenmays 12y ago
  Mixed (half black, half white) engineer here. Who cares if you're the only person of a certain race on a team? Why is this significant? People really need to stop being so sensitive. I try to work with the best teams to advance my own skillset. I could care less the race of my teammates or if my feelings are coddled. In the article the author states she had a boyfriend in Oakland, and she was scared to visit him... in a predominately black area. I think this author brings her own fears about being included and being different with her. You cannot let any of this stop you from doing what you want to do and being who you are. Edit: Getting downvotes for not fitting the narrative of I'm a non-included minority in tech please give me my diversity.
  • dopamean 12y ago
    > I think this author brings her own fears about being included and being different with her. I think that was sort of the point and she addressed it. > Who cares if you're the only person of a certain race on a team? Why is this significant? I spend a lot of time with my coworkers. It is important that we can relate to each other and perhaps even more importantly that we feel like we can relate to each other. Being paranoid about being an outsider isn't some crazy way of thinking. People perceived to be outsiders are frequently ostracized and we all know it.
    • stevenmays 12y ago
      > Being paranoid about being an outsider isn't some crazy way of thinking. People perceived to be outsiders are frequently ostracized and we all know it. I think this is a self fulfilling prophecy. When you bring that fear with you into each interaction, and mold yourself to fit some group dynamic no one wins. And you're less likely to be included or FEEL included because you're scared and have modified your behavior to fit the group dynamic. Anyway, I have zero issues being a minority in tech. I have an awesome and interesting career, and I enjoy my coworkers.
  • codygman 12y ago
    Being half white, you are more privileged than someone who isn't but not nearly as privileged as a white male such as myself. Also, I'm sure you already know about colorism. > I could care less the race of my teammates or if my feelings are coddled. I'm willing to bet a non-zero number of your teammates care about your race.
• tuxidomasx 12y ago
  Wow, so many insightful comments here. I'm a black engineer and can relate to a lot of what was said in the article. However, I learned early on not to compromise myself to try to fit in. Instead, I knew the importance embracing one's cultural community and always sought out like-minded and like-cultured groups with which to associate, as was suggested by Woodson in the "Mis-Education of the Negro." Upon entering the workforce, it was much harder to find that sense of community, so I started a black social network in my spare time so that I could still have that exposure. During the day, the only other black person I saw at my job for 6 years was the janitor. And I had a better relationship with him than the people I actually worked with... My perspective is that it's much more enjoyable and easier to thrive in a culturally homogeneous environment. And that it's challenging to be a token member of a culturally diverse environment. A decade of being a minority in technology has crystallized my opinion on the matter; I don't believe that taking a homogeneous group and tossing in a few minorities is the best way to embrace diversity. Instead, I am a proponent of encouraging the creation of a diverse set of culturally homogeneous groups. And yes, I realize that what I'm suggesting is basically segregation. The difference is subtle, but all the issues Erica lists in her article can be addressed by this shift in diversity strategy. To paraphrase: As a black person, I would rather be part of a mostly-black team/company than be one of the few black faces in a mostly-non-black team/company.
• aamm123456aag 12y ago
  aamm123456aag
• RenegadeofFunk 12y ago
  Black software engineer here. Pretty much disagree with all of this. Here's my take: http://righteousruminations.blogspot.com/2014/11/another-side-of-diversity.html http://righteousruminations.blogspot.com/2014/11/another-sid...