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I'm amazed that buyers will trust anonymous online drug dealers with their address. Isn't that what happens?

by barking 12y ago

corobo 12y ago
Yes but consider the pre-tech way is that they anonymously (at least for the first few times) visit your address personally or you visit theirs Easily more risky
- ripb 12y ago
  That will depend on the drug. If you're talking about heroin or crack addicts who've to essentially approach random people they don't know, then yes there is obviously risk associated with it. However when you're talking about recreational / party drugs like marijuana, MDMA, etc., these come through large distribution networks with an inherent level of trust and common cause to minimize risk inbuilt. If you, for example, wanted to get some marijuana, you'd probably go to a friend that you know smokes it, because he clearly has a source for it. You'll go to someone you feel you can place some level of trust and confidence in, and likewise they will go to, or direct you toward, someone they place a level of trust and confidence in. Every actor in that scenario is seeking to minimize their risk. The consumer will use caution in who they deal with and likewise the middlemen or distributors will use caution in who they deal with. This will be underlined by the fact that low level recreational drugs dealing isn't a massively profitable activity. Only further up the distribution chain, far away from the end user, will profit rise and with it, risk. I personally cannot fathom buying drugs from someone totally unconnected online. The odds of you ending up buying drugs from a police officer when you go to a friend of a friend, versus when you're buying them from a faceless entity online are incredibly different.
  - corobo 12y ago
    You do make excellent points on the more recreational side of things. To be honest I wasn't really thinking small amounts - I had an assumption that people were buying in wholesale amounts on Silk Road and the likes
Estragon 12y ago
I've been following the dark net markets subreddit for a while because I'm fascinated by that question too. The consensus there seems to be, surprisingly, that having the authorities connect your address to illicit activity isn't that big a deal. When I've suggested that such association would constitute probable cause for a search warrant and hence anyone who's clearly exposed their address by communicating it unencrypted to a drug dealer should consult a criminal lawyer and henceforth keep their house clean of evidence, I've been downvoted. It really surprises me that people are risking their liberty this way.
- barking 12y ago
  I suppose you could use an incorrect name and then not open it for enough time for any raid to happen. Down the line if your address was exposed you could claim to have stuck them back in the mail unopened with return to sender written on them? I wouldn't like to be relying on that though.
  - ripb 12y ago
    You could also use drop box services like Parcel Motel and maintain a degree of anonymity through it. Depending on how well you set it up, the only real chance of being caught is if the package was found in transit and the authorities decided to essentially set up a sting on the drop box and wait for you to collect it. However, for recreational consumer use, you're talking quantities that absolutely could not justify such an operation. The value in such an operation through a traditional drug dealing network would be that the person caught could serve up information on who they got it from. When you're talking about buying drugs anonymously online, none of that information will be available.
    - _up 12y ago
      In Germany, DHL is offering what in the US is known as Amazon Lockers. And they got hacked and used for drug trading. After the money/bitcoin transfer you simply got the access code and could get your drugs like from a vending machine. Though they somehow got busted.
dobbsbob 12y ago
There is plenty of extortion attempts, not for narcotics but for weapons sales many of those listings are criminals who will threaten you once they get an address according to their market forums. Buying a gun online isn't really necessary, here gangsters pop down to Arizona and buy any gun they want on craigslist or local classifieds for cash in a parking lot, then mail the gun(s) in pieces camoflauged with spare bicycle parts back to themselves. Most buyers on these sites are using some kind of drop, like a virtual office that accepts the package then forwards it or they go pick it up.
robmccoll 12y ago
Pick a house you believe to be abandoned or at least temporarily empty. Make up a name and have a package sent to that name at that address. Carefully go get the package or pay a third party to pick it up and bring it to you. Not my cup of tea, but it doesn't seem too hard.
BorisMelnik 12y ago
Most of them don't. They use a drop, or a combination of other methods. One of which is find a random street person to walk into a UPS store and grab a PO Box and pay for the month. At that point you have an "untraceable" box. When it is time to do the pickup you can do it yourself or pay someone else to do the pickup, choice is yours. I am not a buyer on any of these buy from reading these posts long enough I know of at least 5-6 other methods where you never have to use your own address and as long as you deal in small quantities never get caught.

I'm amazed that buyers will trust anonymous online drug dealers with their address. Isn't that what happens?

by barking 12y ago

I'm amazed that buyers will trust anonymous online drug dealers with their address. Isn't that what happens?

Yes but consider the pre-tech way is that they anonymously (at least for the first few times) visit your address personally or you visit theirs Easily more risky

ripb 12y ago
That will depend on the drug. If you're talking about heroin or crack addicts who've to essentially approach random people they don't know, then yes there is obviously risk associated with it. However when you're talking about recreational / party drugs like marijuana, MDMA, etc., these come through large distribution networks with an inherent level of trust and common cause to minimize risk inbuilt. If you, for example, wanted to get some marijuana, you'd probably go to a friend that you know smokes it, because he clearly has a source for it. You'll go to someone you feel you can place some level of trust and confidence in, and likewise they will go to, or direct you toward, someone they place a level of trust and confidence in. Every actor in that scenario is seeking to minimize their risk. The consumer will use caution in who they deal with and likewise the middlemen or distributors will use caution in who they deal with. This will be underlined by the fact that low level recreational drugs dealing isn't a massively profitable activity. Only further up the distribution chain, far away from the end user, will profit rise and with it, risk. I personally cannot fathom buying drugs from someone totally unconnected online. The odds of you ending up buying drugs from a police officer when you go to a friend of a friend, versus when you're buying them from a faceless entity online are incredibly different.
- corobo 12y ago
  You do make excellent points on the more recreational side of things. To be honest I wasn't really thinking small amounts - I had an assumption that people were buying in wholesale amounts on Silk Road and the likes

Estragon 12y ago

I've been following the dark net markets subreddit for a while because I'm fascinated by that question too. The consensus there seems to be, surprisingly, that having the authorities connect your address to illicit activity isn't that big a deal. When I've suggested that such association would constitute probable cause for a search warrant and hence anyone who's clearly exposed their address by communicating it unencrypted to a drug dealer should consult a criminal lawyer and henceforth keep their house clean of evidence, I've been downvoted. It really surprises me that people are risking their liberty this way.

barking 12y ago
I suppose you could use an incorrect name and then not open it for enough time for any raid to happen. Down the line if your address was exposed you could claim to have stuck them back in the mail unopened with return to sender written on them? I wouldn't like to be relying on that though.
- ripb 12y ago
  You could also use drop box services like Parcel Motel and maintain a degree of anonymity through it. Depending on how well you set it up, the only real chance of being caught is if the package was found in transit and the authorities decided to essentially set up a sting on the drop box and wait for you to collect it. However, for recreational consumer use, you're talking quantities that absolutely could not justify such an operation. The value in such an operation through a traditional drug dealing network would be that the person caught could serve up information on who they got it from. When you're talking about buying drugs anonymously online, none of that information will be available.
  - _up 12y ago
    In Germany, DHL is offering what in the US is known as Amazon Lockers. And they got hacked and used for drug trading. After the money/bitcoin transfer you simply got the access code and could get your drugs like from a vending machine. Though they somehow got busted.

dobbsbob 12y ago

There is plenty of extortion attempts, not for narcotics but for weapons sales many of those listings are criminals who will threaten you once they get an address according to their market forums. Buying a gun online isn't really necessary, here gangsters pop down to Arizona and buy any gun they want on craigslist or local classifieds for cash in a parking lot, then mail the gun(s) in pieces camoflauged with spare bicycle parts back to themselves. Most buyers on these sites are using some kind of drop, like a virtual office that accepts the package then forwards it or they go pick it up.

robmccoll 12y ago

Pick a house you believe to be abandoned or at least temporarily empty. Make up a name and have a package sent to that name at that address. Carefully go get the package or pay a third party to pick it up and bring it to you. Not my cup of tea, but it doesn't seem too hard.

BorisMelnik 12y ago

Most of them don't. They use a drop, or a combination of other methods. One of which is find a random street person to walk into a UPS store and grab a PO Box and pay for the month. At that point you have an "untraceable" box. When it is time to do the pickup you can do it yourself or pay someone else to do the pickup, choice is yours. I am not a buyer on any of these buy from reading these posts long enough I know of at least 5-6 other methods where you never have to use your own address and as long as you deal in small quantities never get caught.