8 ms·

Psychedelics, mushrooms in particular, are essential tools for any wise programmer. Very very powerful, only to be consulted on rare occasions, but immensely va

Psychedelics, mushrooms in particular, are essential tools for any wise programmer. Very very powerful, only to be consulted on rare occasions, but immensely valuable in solving intractable problems. We essentially owe our profession to psychedelic explorations by pioneers of software engineering. Companies who drug test developers are ignorant of this history, and are the enemies of the digital revolution. Brilliant, beautiful languages and programs came from these pioneers, and it's likely because of their rich neural networks, enhanced by psychedelics as seen in the Wired article. The ability to connect humanistic art and feeling with symbolic systems and code requires a sophisticated neural network. Psychedelics help build the mental infrastructure for software development that actually benefits humans. I would love to see any stats or info about the relative consumption of psychedelics- both kind and amount- among engineers at specific companies or types of software firms.

rhgraysonii 12y ago
If you'd like to chat on the topic, email is in my profile.
ghuntley 12y ago
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143036769
- bemused 12y ago
  second that, this gives very interesting insight about the mixture of 60s counterculture, then still legal psychotherapeutic and/or recreational experiments with psychoactive substances and the beginnings of "personal" computing reading this helped a lot realizing the innovation and impact "The Mother of All Demos" really brought and getting a understanding about the environment in which this was envisioned and implemented http://www.wired.com/2013/12/tech-time-warp-engelbart/ http://www.wired.com/2013/12/tech-time-warp-engelbart/
- akavel 12y ago
  Interesting. Quoting a review http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/early-computings-long-strange-trip http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/early-computi...: "Markoff's book covers the years 1960 to 1975 and the area south of San Francisco around Stanford University that would later come to be known as Silicon Valley. I arrived in Palo Alto in 1980, after the period described in the book, but got to know most of the people Markoff depicts. I can report that if anything, he underplays the degree to which they behaved in ways that would today be considered outrageous and radical, and what I saw was said to have been mild compared with what had come before. [...] And yes, there were drugs and naked people in the rooms where some of the code that now drives your e-mail around the globe was first set down."
api 12y ago
http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/2006/06/podcast-042-–-“using-psychedelics-for-rational-work”/ http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/2006/06/podcast-042-–-“us...
penprog 12y ago
I find sleep to work most of the time. But yeah, once I was so stressed out I was constantly breaking out into cold sweats and felt like I was gonna vomit. Went camping on a Saturday and took acid. Left feeling more refreshed than I have ever had in my life.
osconfused 12y ago
In my own experience, every amazing engineer I have worked with has had at least one psychedelic experience, usually many.
- kevinskii 12y ago
  In my own experience, every engineer that I have worked with who regularly uses psychedelics has substandard problem-solving abilities. Note that I'm not "knocking" psychedelics per se. I've never personally tried them and I don't know enough to comment on their effects or risks. I'm just providing an anecdotal counterpoint to yours. There are a lot of general comments in this thread about people's minds being usefully expanded by drug use. I'm not disputing these, but could someone perhaps provide a specific example about a problem they were stuck on which they then managed to solve with the assistance of drugs?
  - delluminatus 12y ago
    No way man, that's such a square question, it's not about specifics, it's about generalities. Ahem. That was a joke. But in seriousness, I've also never heard a specific example of a programming problem solved during a trip, but I can say that I've found tripping to be very beneficial in some unexpected areas: 1. Holistic understanding feels easier. E.g. understanding other people on a much deeper holistic level. I'm usually not very great at group socializing in parties or whatnot but tripping actually helps with that a lot. This is, in my mind, the same kind of "systems understanding" that could be applied to programming. You can intuitively understand a complex system of subtle interactions, on a deeper level than just what's being said. 2. Visualization. Almost anything can be visualized, even if it doesn't really make sense. And the visualizations feel real, which makes them easier to move and comprehend. Sometimes you can literally see them, like in the patterns of the veins on your hand, or the stitching in your clothes. 3. Unexpected mutation. During a trip, things can often move in a weird way, including things that don't normally move, like concepts or diagrams (or walls -- just try not to stare at them too long). It's notoriously challenging to rotate, skew, or otherwise transform your mental visuals. Tripping can make this trivial. 4. Perceived reality. The difference between real and virtual completely fades. Video games feel real (which is awesome when it's not terrifying). Have you ever played an FPS where you are literally afraid to die? It actually makes you a lot better! This same perceptive shift collapses the difference between real/virtual, digital/analog (in the nontechnical sense), practical/theoretical. It collapses inside/outside as well. You are not separate from what you are doing or thinking about; you're part of the system, like you're literally contained within the conceptual structure. This kind of dichotomy-destroying mindset opens up some very interesting new perspectives.
hockeybias 12y ago
That is a pretty broad brush you're sweeping the canvas with...
andrey-p 12y ago
Had my first acid trip a few weeks ago at a friend's place. I had brought my netbook to do some work on the train. Midway through the trip I thought, "Wait a minute! My eyes are so open now. I can see patterns and bigger pictures like never before in my life. If I try doing some programming right now my abilities will be godlike." I opened up my netbook, fired up Vim and was immediately distracted by the blinking cursor going up and down.
- Lambdanaut 12y ago
  I've found that psychedelics are far more useful for planning and conceptualizing, not actually doing the work. Put away the laptop and get out a pen and notebook and start drawing diagrams. The next day when you're not high as a kite you can take advantage of your focus to implement the ideas you came up with.
- marincounty 12y ago
  I knew a girl who was a junior at Darthmouth. She went to a concert with her friends on a holiday break. At said concert she took some acid. She went to bed. She woke up and she didn't recognize the family members around her. She got better over the years, and finally finished her degree 20 years later. I'm not anti drug, but I think about her often. No, I have never tried anything other than pot. Pot is too strong for my constitution. I wish I had the personality to experiment, but I am just not willing to take the chance.
  - andrey-p 12y ago
    I do have to say, I've also tried some other drugs in the past month or so (MDMA being one of them) and the effect I got was pretty horrific - the exact opposite of the effect most people get. Even despite my bad experience I'm still interested in drug experimentation. I guess it's important to keep in mind that YMMV and if you try something new, make sure it's in a controlled environment (around people you trust, in a safe space, correct dosage of good quality stuff, etc).
    - fapjacks 12y ago
tesq 12y ago
Sorry, any insights and perspective shifts brought on through tripping can be made just the same if you work on it through life experience instead of relying on a drug to enlighten you. I say this as someone who has had many psychedelic experiences and programs.
here_you_go 12y ago
Suppose someone who knows your friend's dog asks if it's a very stupid idea to get LSD from one of the "darknet" markets. What would the owner of the dog's dog friend reply? Would his sister-in-law who may or may not exist know about any pointers on how to find a trustworthy source (to actually get the correct quality) on such a platform?
- tesq 12y ago
  You are fooling nobody and your use of code words to organize a crime would be held against you in a court of law if anyone gave a damn about your post here on HN.
  - wutbrodo 12y ago
    I would imagine that the use of a "dog" in the chain of acquaintance is a dead giveaway that he's being facetious about the attempt to "hide" his request (regardless of whether the request itself is part of the joke).
  - here_you_go 12y ago
    Am I being detained?
  - eru 12y ago
    How can you be sure here_you_go is organizing a crime? You don't even know what jurisdiction they are in.
- YourFriendsDog 12y ago
  reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets. Woof.

rhgraysonii 12y ago

If you'd like to chat on the topic, email is in my profile.

ghuntley 12y ago

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0143036769

bemused 12y ago
second that, this gives very interesting insight about the mixture of 60s counterculture, then still legal psychotherapeutic and/or recreational experiments with psychoactive substances and the beginnings of "personal" computing reading this helped a lot realizing the innovation and impact "The Mother of All Demos" really brought and getting a understanding about the environment in which this was envisioned and implemented http://www.wired.com/2013/12/tech-time-warp-engelbart/ http://www.wired.com/2013/12/tech-time-warp-engelbart/
akavel 12y ago
Interesting. Quoting a review http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/early-computings-long-strange-trip http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/early-computi...: "Markoff's book covers the years 1960 to 1975 and the area south of San Francisco around Stanford University that would later come to be known as Silicon Valley. I arrived in Palo Alto in 1980, after the period described in the book, but got to know most of the people Markoff depicts. I can report that if anything, he underplays the degree to which they behaved in ways that would today be considered outrageous and radical, and what I saw was said to have been mild compared with what had come before. [...] And yes, there were drugs and naked people in the rooms where some of the code that now drives your e-mail around the globe was first set down."

api 12y ago

http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/2006/06/podcast-042-–-“using-psychedelics-for-rational-work”/ http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/2006/06/podcast-042-–-“us...

penprog 12y ago

I find sleep to work most of the time. But yeah, once I was so stressed out I was constantly breaking out into cold sweats and felt like I was gonna vomit. Went camping on a Saturday and took acid. Left feeling more refreshed than I have ever had in my life.

osconfused 12y ago

In my own experience, every amazing engineer I have worked with has had at least one psychedelic experience, usually many.

kevinskii 12y ago
In my own experience, every engineer that I have worked with who regularly uses psychedelics has substandard problem-solving abilities. Note that I'm not "knocking" psychedelics per se. I've never personally tried them and I don't know enough to comment on their effects or risks. I'm just providing an anecdotal counterpoint to yours. There are a lot of general comments in this thread about people's minds being usefully expanded by drug use. I'm not disputing these, but could someone perhaps provide a specific example about a problem they were stuck on which they then managed to solve with the assistance of drugs?
- delluminatus 12y ago
  No way man, that's such a square question, it's not about specifics, it's about generalities. Ahem. That was a joke. But in seriousness, I've also never heard a specific example of a programming problem solved during a trip, but I can say that I've found tripping to be very beneficial in some unexpected areas: 1. Holistic understanding feels easier. E.g. understanding other people on a much deeper holistic level. I'm usually not very great at group socializing in parties or whatnot but tripping actually helps with that a lot. This is, in my mind, the same kind of "systems understanding" that could be applied to programming. You can intuitively understand a complex system of subtle interactions, on a deeper level than just what's being said. 2. Visualization. Almost anything can be visualized, even if it doesn't really make sense. And the visualizations feel real, which makes them easier to move and comprehend. Sometimes you can literally see them, like in the patterns of the veins on your hand, or the stitching in your clothes. 3. Unexpected mutation. During a trip, things can often move in a weird way, including things that don't normally move, like concepts or diagrams (or walls -- just try not to stare at them too long). It's notoriously challenging to rotate, skew, or otherwise transform your mental visuals. Tripping can make this trivial. 4. Perceived reality. The difference between real and virtual completely fades. Video games feel real (which is awesome when it's not terrifying). Have you ever played an FPS where you are literally afraid to die? It actually makes you a lot better! This same perceptive shift collapses the difference between real/virtual, digital/analog (in the nontechnical sense), practical/theoretical. It collapses inside/outside as well. You are not separate from what you are doing or thinking about; you're part of the system, like you're literally contained within the conceptual structure. This kind of dichotomy-destroying mindset opens up some very interesting new perspectives.

hockeybias 12y ago

That is a pretty broad brush you're sweeping the canvas with...

andrey-p 12y ago

Had my first acid trip a few weeks ago at a friend's place. I had brought my netbook to do some work on the train. Midway through the trip I thought, "Wait a minute! My eyes are so open now. I can see patterns and bigger pictures like never before in my life. If I try doing some programming right now my abilities will be godlike." I opened up my netbook, fired up Vim and was immediately distracted by the blinking cursor going up and down.

Lambdanaut 12y ago
I've found that psychedelics are far more useful for planning and conceptualizing, not actually doing the work. Put away the laptop and get out a pen and notebook and start drawing diagrams. The next day when you're not high as a kite you can take advantage of your focus to implement the ideas you came up with.
marincounty 12y ago
I knew a girl who was a junior at Darthmouth. She went to a concert with her friends on a holiday break. At said concert she took some acid. She went to bed. She woke up and she didn't recognize the family members around her. She got better over the years, and finally finished her degree 20 years later. I'm not anti drug, but I think about her often. No, I have never tried anything other than pot. Pot is too strong for my constitution. I wish I had the personality to experiment, but I am just not willing to take the chance.
- andrey-p 12y ago
  I do have to say, I've also tried some other drugs in the past month or so (MDMA being one of them) and the effect I got was pretty horrific - the exact opposite of the effect most people get. Even despite my bad experience I'm still interested in drug experimentation. I guess it's important to keep in mind that YMMV and if you try something new, make sure it's in a controlled environment (around people you trust, in a safe space, correct dosage of good quality stuff, etc).
  - fapjacks 12y ago

tesq 12y ago

Sorry, any insights and perspective shifts brought on through tripping can be made just the same if you work on it through life experience instead of relying on a drug to enlighten you. I say this as someone who has had many psychedelic experiences and programs.

here_you_go 12y ago

Suppose someone who knows your friend's dog asks if it's a very stupid idea to get LSD from one of the "darknet" markets. What would the owner of the dog's dog friend reply? Would his sister-in-law who may or may not exist know about any pointers on how to find a trustworthy source (to actually get the correct quality) on such a platform?

tesq 12y ago
You are fooling nobody and your use of code words to organize a crime would be held against you in a court of law if anyone gave a damn about your post here on HN.
- wutbrodo 12y ago
  I would imagine that the use of a "dog" in the chain of acquaintance is a dead giveaway that he's being facetious about the attempt to "hide" his request (regardless of whether the request itself is part of the joke).
- here_you_go 12y ago
  Am I being detained?
- eru 12y ago
  How can you be sure here_you_go is organizing a crime? You don't even know what jurisdiction they are in.
YourFriendsDog 12y ago
reddit.com/r/darknetmarkets. Woof.