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Friends Don't Let Friends Clap on One and Three: A Backbeat Clapping Study
- rmxt 12y agoA YouTube link to the Taj Mahal concert mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQOJQHJ8Sg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQOJQHJ8Sg
- guelo 12y agoThis presentation would much better as a youtube video with audible samples of the beats.
- Roedou 12y agoIn case you're not the only one looking for them: Michael Jackson - Billie Jean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y#t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y#t=0 The Honey Drippers - Impeach The President: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8#t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8#t=0 Bob James - Take Me to the Mardi Gras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoCsmFDLcY#t=0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoCsmFDLcY#t=0 James Brown - Funky Drummer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP8tbDMZNE#t=332 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP8tbDMZNE#t=332 The Winstons - Amen Brother: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM#t=84 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM#t=84
- __david__ 12y agoSo I watched an old documentary online about the Amen break which was phenomenal, but I've never heard of "Impeach the President" and "The Funky Drummer". And yet, I know those drums like the back of my hand. I love finding where stuff I've heard my whole life came from.
- zw123456 12y agoI agree, a presentation on music that does not contain any audible samples reveals a weakness of slideshare perhaps, unless perhaps there is a feature I am unaware of ?
- spenuke 12y agoDuke Ellington routinely gave his audiences a lesson in his inimitable style: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPcZ5ex2t-g Harry Connick Jr. didn't bother educating his European audience with any explanation. He simply skips a beat, and then they're clapping on 2 and 4. It happens after the first sung chorus. You can see the drummer raise his hands in joy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw And, of course, the great Slim Gaillard was so saturated in swing, his predominantly white 1950s television audience SPONTANEOUSLY clapped on the 2 and 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKdrnTTDTqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKdrnTTDTqo
- tlb 12y agoHarry Connick Jr's beat switcheroo is masterful.
- sanderjd 12y agoGoodness yes, I've listened to it a bunch of times and the pre-switch and after-switch difference is obvious, but the transition is like magic to me - I can't hear it, I can only realize that it happened.
- brightsize 12y agoIt didn't catch the transition the first time around either, but a 2nd listen I heard it. Pure evil! Thanks for the vid, I didn't know that HCJ had such piano chops. I remember when he burst on the scene with his singing but it seems he disappeared a few years thereafter and I rarely hear of him. Great music.
- techrat 12y agoTo me it sounds like it's when "suddenly" the bassline matches the clapping but he hid it under the treble-only riff on the piano. Pure magic. It just flips like a switch.
- tmm 12y agoHow can you tell he skips a beat? Or for that matter the difference between beats 1 and 3 vs 2 and 4? Music is such a mystery to me. :/
- conitpicker 12y agoslide 28 (tabla player gets in the groove..) is fascinating.
- nitid_name 12y agoI would like to hear his "complicated sixteenth note patterns."
- dekhn 12y agoThe spoken introduction in this album walks you through some basics of indian classical music. http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Indian-Music-Album-Version/dp/B00137T9SI http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Indian-Music-Album-Versio... he walks you through the 16 beat cycle and counts things off. he also make a very interest comment about jazz.
- thangalin 12y agoThe following blog post provides examples of swung beats and clapping, as it pertains to dancing: http://vixswingjazz.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/can-you-hear-the-beat/ http://vixswingjazz.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/can-you-hear-th... A few songs are missing from the page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtNC8BwKI0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtNC8BwKI0 (Dinah; NSFW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YqDbd6pUC0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YqDbd6pUC0 (Everything is Jumping) To get a feel for clapping on the even beats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_WZenJnT8M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_WZenJnT8M (Shout, Sister, Shout!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_pi0r75mA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg_pi0r75mA (Lavender Coffin) Harry Connick Jr. beat-shifts the audience from clapping on 1 & 3 to 2 & 4 (at 40 second mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD3iaURppQw Usually the Ultimate Lindy Hop Showdowns have live music, which induces the audience to clap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWA4ClPnxk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfWA4ClPnxk A tradition called a jam circle involves encircling dancers who steal the spotlight, with the audience clapping (on even beats) for encouragement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRNQAcXhJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTRNQAcXhJo This tradition goes back a long way; see Hellzapoppin' (1941) and Keep Punching (1939): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSAOV6XEjXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSAOV6XEjXA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgKMfexdPQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfgKMfexdPQ
- DanBC 12y agoI play the Lavender Coffin track. I listen to it carefully. I replay it and try to clap on the claps. I fail. I try again. I still fail. I listen to the song again. I replay the track, but this time try to tap my finger (which is easier than clapping) and I still fail. Will it get easier or am I just "beatdeaf"? (Here I can clearly hear the 1 2 3 4, and the claps, but I just cannot match the claps on 2 and 4.)
- thangalin 12y agoTry these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REzz-My2PoI#t=100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REzz-My2PoI#t=100 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU#t=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joo90ZWrUkU#t=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I It takes practice. Newer dancers clap on 1 & 3 until they learn. Sometimes all it takes is for someone to clap quite loudly (almost passively-aggressively so) on the 2 & 4 for the rest of the people to shift over.
- ArekDymalski 12y agoI'm genuinely grateful for this article, because I'm going to show it to my wife as an explanation why I dance the way I do. (dnb and classical Indian music fan)
- rlucas 12y agoMy circle of friends used to joke about the "Republican Test." You administer it like this: play the song "I Heard It Through the Grapevine," ideally the Marvin Gaye version, and ask the subject to "clap along with the music" however he or she feels. Our unscientific observations showed a high correlation with 1/3 clapping and being old, square, uptight, or an alien from an unfunky and obsolete dying planet.
- conitpicker 12y agoI bet Lee Atwater would have failed that test..
- mynameishere 12y agoI didn't know this, which I assume is what you're referring to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hq2VQ8P_9o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hq2VQ8P_9o
- sliverstorm 12y agoMaybe it's more accurate than it appears at first glance. I consider myself centrist. I just did your test fur fun and found myself regularly switching back and forth between 1/3 and 2/4, depending on the part of the song.
- javert 12y agoConversely, how do you detect a Democrat? Don't worry, it's easy. They go around calling anyone who disagrees with them names, like "old, square, uptight, or alien."
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- bonjovial 12y agoOh. And we all just learned not to expect Republicans or Libertarians to understand the concept of..."joke". You just confirmed the parent comment's point.
- thornofmight 12y ago"We can determine the “metric salience” of each event in a rhythmic pattern by“recursively breaking down a musical pattern (with an initially specified length)into subpatterns of equal length.” The more subdivisions it takes to reach a given event, the lower its metrical salience. In 4/4 time, the downbeat is themost salient position, followed by beat three. It would seem natural to clap onthe strongest, most salient beat." Anybody know what this quote is trying to say? What is a "given event"?
- powrtoch 12y agoRoughly, a sound that happens during some measure of music, or an arbitrary point during that duration. Imagine folding a strip of paper exactly in half. Now you have a crease at the middle of it. If you fold it again, you have a couple more creases at the 1/4 and 3/4 points. The above quote is talking about the same thing, but with a length of time instead of a strip of paper. The more folds you have to make in order to put a crease at a certain point (event), the less salient it is. Hope that's helpful.
- recursive 12y agoAn event is the start of a note or drum strike.
- dnautics 12y agoactually the notion that european music is "harmonically rich and rhythmically unsophisticated" is incorrect; it's relatively modern phenomenon that the rhythms in european music were simplified. Traditional eastern european rhythms are incredibly complex and western european liturgical and vernacular music tended to have complex ryhthms until around the 16-17th century. IIRC this was basically an effect of the church decided to try to monopolize music in the service of liturgy and "dumb down" the music so that everyone could participate in hymnals, etc. This could also partially be a result of music printing; it's harder to notate complex rhythms - if you've ever sung medieval music that's pushed into modern notation, sometimes wierd things happen, like time signatures that don't quite line up with the all of the music lines because polyphony is going on; invasions of 3/4 measures in an otherwise 2/4 song, etc.
- gohrt 12y agoThis sounds like how the early digital age of computers over-simplified analog processing of audio and video and PDEs (and what other complex phenomenon? Language AI?), and only later started to close the gap.
- zaius 12y agoLinks to the songs discussed: * Billie Jean - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi_XLOBDo_Y * Impeach the President - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8 * Take me to the Mardi Gras - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoCsmFDLcY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaoCsmFDLcY * The Funky Drummer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP8tbDMZNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNP8tbDMZNE * Amen Brother - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxZuq57_bYM
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- mnemonik 12y agoHere is an excellent 18 minute piece on the Amen Break, mentioned in TFA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac
- gavinking 12y agoWell both are wrong. You don't clap on two and four; you click your fingers. I thought everyone knew that...
- psenior 12y agoBarry Harris tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnX_PkDwWs#t=2992 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnX_PkDwWs#t=2992
- brightsize 12y agoIf you get tired of 2 and 4, try this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVBoDx_1dTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVBoDx_1dTc [The First Circle -- Metheny/Mays]
- cnvogel 12y agoFor the curious... ||: 12/8 -♪♪-♪-♪♪-♪-♪ | 10/8 -♪♪-♪♪-♪-♪ :|| (- being a 1/8th pause, for the lack of a proper unicode character in whatever font I currently use to type this) from: http://www.stuartgreenbaum.com/downloads/files/%20First%20Circle-thesis.pdf http://www.stuartgreenbaum.com/downloads/files/%20First%20Ci... See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_in_unusual_time_signatures#22.2F8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_in_unusu...
- brightsize 12y agoThanks for that. It took me a while, but over time I finally figured out the myriad time changes in that tune, at least for informal clapping purposes anyway. That said, they implemented at least one variation of the rhythm in some of their live concerts (see youtube) that still eludes me. Pretty amazing that this one tune can result in a 50+ page analysis - your linked PDF. The composition is a masterpiece, quite possibly the one that the PMG will be most remembered for.
- krispyfi 12y agoThe rhythm tengoku series of games will teach you about stuff like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMe-j0Lg5w8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMe-j0Lg5w8
- jdbernard 12y ago"Taj Mahal found it distressing when his audience clapped wrong because it felt like a failure to emotionally connect with them." How do they know this? Did they ask him or is this their assumption based on their expectations. It is annoying enough when researchers impute motive and thought to inanimate things. But people actually have them so it is all the more frustrating if they are assuming they know what he's feeling. The beat you emphasize has a great effect on the feel of the rhythm. Instead of "feeling like he failed to connect on emotionally," it could just be that he wanted them to hear the song as he intended to play it and without altering it's rhythmic nature.
- waterlesscloud 12y agoAnd then there's bluegrass clogging... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs2j8f7H2WY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs2j8f7H2WY
- shangxiao 12y agoNitpick: The slide author correctly spells "zwei" but deliberately misspells "schwartz" and "vier".
- gpvos 12y agoInterestingly, the Schottische, a 19th-century dance which despite the name originates from Central Europe, has strong and fairly complex backbeats (if danced the traditional way): one-and-TWO, three-and-FOUR, one-AND-two-AND-three-AND-four-AND. This dance has influenced blues dancing. (Which is a partner dance; African-American slaves had no tradition of partner dancing.)
- brownbat 12y agoFor those that didn't make it to slide 28: Subject 5769, a tabla player only weakly familiar with Western or African music, clapped on displaced backbeats or using complex 16th note rhythms, that, if recorded, "would likely make an enjoyable work of art."