4 ms·

I think it’s a good time to reflect on the massive impact of Android on the mobile OS market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system#Market_share

by edderly 12y ago

I think it’s a good time to reflect on the massive impact of Android on the mobile OS market. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system#Market_share http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_operating_system#Market_... The Android team under Rubin executed extraordinarily well with a tiny fraction of Google’s engineering resources.

autism_hurts 12y ago
By riding the coat tails and blatantly copying Apple.
- DannyBee 12y ago
  Andy was being innovative and succeeding with things like the hiptop/ sidekick well before phones were a twinkle in Apple's eye.
- edderly 12y ago
  Even if you take that argument at face value, do you think anyone could just have done that? There are enough failed and feeble mobile OS vendors out there (Symbian, RIM, Palm, Microsoft) to prove that doing what Android has done is hard.
  - 001sky 12y ago
    At some stage, it takes huge talent to follow in the footsteps certain pathbreakers. At leasts successfully. Even if android did nothing but 'copy apple' they created a second player in the space on Apple's level. If you think this is a trivial task -- look at RIM. The creation of viable choice and a establishment of business model that hasn't (yet) forced the implosion of the platform, is a huge amount of work even of one were to abstact away any "groundbreaking originality" (whatever that means anyway) in the platform.
- Ologn 12y ago
  And how many existing mobile devices did Apple blatantly copy with the first iPhone? The first iPhone was nice, but how many features were original, aside from multi-touch?
- swang 12y ago
  Arguably they have both copied from each other to the benefit of its users. Imagine iOS still having those shitty popups and notifications. Glad they "copied" it from Android.
  - ultramancool 12y ago
    Yeah, I definitely think users of both platforms have seen immense benefits due to the "copying" of features. Some of the strongest recent examples have actually been things from Android showing up on iOS like the control center toggles and replaceable keyboards.
- cageface 12y ago
  Apple has borrowed at least as much from Android. Pretty much all the banner features in the last several releases of iOS are just catch-up with stuff Android has been doing for years.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  What about the underlying architecture of the OS though? Linux with a Java runtime and a new windowing layer that stops "normal" Linux apps running? Running each dalvik process in its own confined user process? What about the design for background services and foreground activities that can be switched to/from (multitasking) right from the beginning, with AIDL for implementing service definitions? What about Intents and the ability to pass messages between processes? What about access to the filesystem in a "normal" way? What about the "desktop" on Android? Where did they copy that from? iOS didn't have multitasking until a lot later, and the concept of background services is more aggressively policed (that is, processes killed often) on iOS, as far as I know? Sure, the superficial layer on top (look! icons! rows of icons!) that children in a sweet shop would notice may look familiar, but underneath it is not anything alike is it? Or are you saying it is?
  - rimantas 12y ago
    > iOS didn't have multitasking until a lot later, and the > concept of background services is more aggressively > policed (that is, processes killed often) on iOS, as far > as I know? Ugh, of course iOS had multitasking from the very beginning as you would expect from unix kernel. The access to it from third party apps is entirely different question.
    - nailer 12y ago
      Well yes, without UX it may as well not exist.
    - socrates2014 12y ago
      iOS had restricted multitasking exposed to apps for awhile (definitely by iOS 5) but it was restricted to certain kinds of apps: VOIP, background audio, newsstand, location awareness, or to a restricted period of time after the app is backgrounded. They expanded it quite a bit in iOS 7? to all apps with background fetch, background url upload and download tasks, silent push notifications, and background tasks. All of these approaches do not work if a user forcibly shuts down the app (I am not quite sure of every case). All these mechanisms are controlled by the OS: we'll call you, don't call us sort of thing and if you don't return in a certain period of time or if we need to, we will shut you down. In iOS 8 you have extension support which launches mini apps. Extensions are somewhat equivalent to services but they are about integration with multitasking an implementation detail for security purposes.
revelation 12y ago
They executed so extraordinarily well that Google spent lots of time in practically every version of android to rewrite core components. They finally killed the horrible DalvikVM recently.
- indymike 12y ago
  done > perfect Every software, pretty much ever has to have core components rewritten, sucks and is horrible. Fortunately, it's just code. And yes, DalvikVM wasn't very good.
- Aissen 12y ago
  A good proof that "Worse is better". By using a worse implementation, then gaining market share, then fixing the core architectural problems bit by bit, Android was a success. Plus it had some really good ideas in there from the beginning.
joezydeco 12y ago
Um, there were a few helpers along the way: 1) Linux, from Torvalds onward. Android used Linux as the hardware abstraction layer and still does. How many developers there? 1B) The ARM Linux developers, especially. Russell King is an unsung hero in this space. 2) The sea of subcontractors that helped with device drivers, subcomponents, integration, and manufacturing. Remember that whole "Open Handset Alliance"[1] thing? Those were all companies doing work for the Google/Android either under contract or gratis in the hopes of getting future work thrown their way or increasing their handset sales with the Google monolith behind them. I was one of them. 3) Webkit. How many developers worked on that (including Apple engineers)? OpenBinder (started at Be)? OpenGL? [1] http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by edderly 12y ago

autism_hurts 12y ago

By riding the coat tails and blatantly copying Apple.

DannyBee 12y ago
Andy was being innovative and succeeding with things like the hiptop/ sidekick well before phones were a twinkle in Apple's eye.
edderly 12y ago
Even if you take that argument at face value, do you think anyone could just have done that? There are enough failed and feeble mobile OS vendors out there (Symbian, RIM, Palm, Microsoft) to prove that doing what Android has done is hard.
- 001sky 12y ago
  At some stage, it takes huge talent to follow in the footsteps certain pathbreakers. At leasts successfully. Even if android did nothing but 'copy apple' they created a second player in the space on Apple's level. If you think this is a trivial task -- look at RIM. The creation of viable choice and a establishment of business model that hasn't (yet) forced the implosion of the platform, is a huge amount of work even of one were to abstact away any "groundbreaking originality" (whatever that means anyway) in the platform.
Ologn 12y ago
And how many existing mobile devices did Apple blatantly copy with the first iPhone? The first iPhone was nice, but how many features were original, aside from multi-touch?
swang 12y ago
Arguably they have both copied from each other to the benefit of its users. Imagine iOS still having those shitty popups and notifications. Glad they "copied" it from Android.
- ultramancool 12y ago
  Yeah, I definitely think users of both platforms have seen immense benefits due to the "copying" of features. Some of the strongest recent examples have actually been things from Android showing up on iOS like the control center toggles and replaceable keyboards.
cageface 12y ago
Apple has borrowed at least as much from Android. Pretty much all the banner features in the last several releases of iOS are just catch-up with stuff Android has been doing for years.
72deluxe 12y ago
What about the underlying architecture of the OS though? Linux with a Java runtime and a new windowing layer that stops "normal" Linux apps running? Running each dalvik process in its own confined user process? What about the design for background services and foreground activities that can be switched to/from (multitasking) right from the beginning, with AIDL for implementing service definitions? What about Intents and the ability to pass messages between processes? What about access to the filesystem in a "normal" way? What about the "desktop" on Android? Where did they copy that from? iOS didn't have multitasking until a lot later, and the concept of background services is more aggressively policed (that is, processes killed often) on iOS, as far as I know? Sure, the superficial layer on top (look! icons! rows of icons!) that children in a sweet shop would notice may look familiar, but underneath it is not anything alike is it? Or are you saying it is?
- rimantas 12y ago
  > iOS didn't have multitasking until a lot later, and the > concept of background services is more aggressively > policed (that is, processes killed often) on iOS, as far > as I know? Ugh, of course iOS had multitasking from the very beginning as you would expect from unix kernel. The access to it from third party apps is entirely different question.
  - nailer 12y ago
    Well yes, without UX it may as well not exist.
  - socrates2014 12y ago
    iOS had restricted multitasking exposed to apps for awhile (definitely by iOS 5) but it was restricted to certain kinds of apps: VOIP, background audio, newsstand, location awareness, or to a restricted period of time after the app is backgrounded. They expanded it quite a bit in iOS 7? to all apps with background fetch, background url upload and download tasks, silent push notifications, and background tasks. All of these approaches do not work if a user forcibly shuts down the app (I am not quite sure of every case). All these mechanisms are controlled by the OS: we'll call you, don't call us sort of thing and if you don't return in a certain period of time or if we need to, we will shut you down. In iOS 8 you have extension support which launches mini apps. Extensions are somewhat equivalent to services but they are about integration with multitasking an implementation detail for security purposes.

revelation 12y ago

They executed so extraordinarily well that Google spent lots of time in practically every version of android to rewrite core components. They finally killed the horrible DalvikVM recently.

indymike 12y ago
done > perfect Every software, pretty much ever has to have core components rewritten, sucks and is horrible. Fortunately, it's just code. And yes, DalvikVM wasn't very good.
Aissen 12y ago
A good proof that "Worse is better". By using a worse implementation, then gaining market share, then fixing the core architectural problems bit by bit, Android was a success. Plus it had some really good ideas in there from the beginning.

joezydeco 12y ago

Um, there were a few helpers along the way: 1) Linux, from Torvalds onward. Android used Linux as the hardware abstraction layer and still does. How many developers there? 1B) The ARM Linux developers, especially. Russell King is an unsung hero in this space. 2) The sea of subcontractors that helped with device drivers, subcomponents, integration, and manufacturing. Remember that whole "Open Handset Alliance"[1] thing? Those were all companies doing work for the Google/Android either under contract or gratis in the hopes of getting future work thrown their way or increasing their handset sales with the Google monolith behind them. I was one of them. 3) Webkit. How many developers worked on that (including Apple engineers)? OpenBinder (started at Be)? OpenGL? [1] http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]