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Allow me to sum up with a quote... "It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping p

Allow me to sum up with a quote... "It’s amazing to me how many people think that voting to have the government give poor people money is compassion. Helping poor and suffering people is compassion. Voting for our government to use guns to give money to help poor and suffering people is immoral self-righteous bullying laziness. People need to be fed, medicated, educated, clothed, and sheltered, and if we’re compassionate we’ll help them, but you get no moral credit for forcing other people to do what you think is right. There is great joy in helping people, but no joy in doing it at gunpoint." -- Penn Jillette

secabeen 12y ago
The problem with this argument is that if we only relied on compassion, people who fit well into community norms would be taken care of, and those people who didn't would get lesser or no services.
- NateDad 12y ago
  I think most people have no idea how much it costs to do half the things the government does, and so even if everyone was compassionate, they'd give far less money than is actually needed, even for the socially normal people.
  - the_ancient 12y ago
    I think most people have no idea how much waste there is in things government purports to do. Accomplishing the same goals with out government overhead would cost a fraction in real dollars than with the nightmare that is government bureaucracy
    - NateDad 12y ago
      I think your first statement is 100% true. Most people have no idea how much waste there is. But some people still try to say it's huge, without any proof other than what they've heard on talk radio.
- the_ancient 12y ago
  Yes because people that do not fit into social norms are helped by government all the time.... If you believe that I have some nice beach property I think you would be interested in. Government through out history has been the engine of discrimination. The only legal way to abuse and harm a social group you do not like is by regulatory capture. Government for hundreds of years has been used to socially engineer society they way those in power desire it to be. From Marriage laws, to who qualifies for welfare. It is the epitome of ignorance to state that government is the best method to help those that "do not fit well into community norms"
Dylan16807 12y ago
You don't think it's mostly objective whether people are being helped? I don't care about the joy of helping nearly as much as actual help. Fuck moral credit. Actually help people. Force everyone to give instead of relying on charity from the few. Yes, it is bullying. That's the only complaint in that quote that makes any sense.
- the_ancient 12y ago
  Then taken from an objective view government has harmed far far far far far far far more people that it has ever helped

secabeen 12y ago

The problem with this argument is that if we only relied on compassion, people who fit well into community norms would be taken care of, and those people who didn't would get lesser or no services.

NateDad 12y ago
I think most people have no idea how much it costs to do half the things the government does, and so even if everyone was compassionate, they'd give far less money than is actually needed, even for the socially normal people.
- the_ancient 12y ago
  I think most people have no idea how much waste there is in things government purports to do. Accomplishing the same goals with out government overhead would cost a fraction in real dollars than with the nightmare that is government bureaucracy
  - NateDad 12y ago
    I think your first statement is 100% true. Most people have no idea how much waste there is. But some people still try to say it's huge, without any proof other than what they've heard on talk radio.
the_ancient 12y ago
Yes because people that do not fit into social norms are helped by government all the time.... If you believe that I have some nice beach property I think you would be interested in. Government through out history has been the engine of discrimination. The only legal way to abuse and harm a social group you do not like is by regulatory capture. Government for hundreds of years has been used to socially engineer society they way those in power desire it to be. From Marriage laws, to who qualifies for welfare. It is the epitome of ignorance to state that government is the best method to help those that "do not fit well into community norms"

Dylan16807 12y ago

You don't think it's mostly objective whether people are being helped? I don't care about the joy of helping nearly as much as actual help. Fuck moral credit. Actually help people. Force everyone to give instead of relying on charity from the few. Yes, it is bullying. That's the only complaint in that quote that makes any sense.

the_ancient 12y ago
Then taken from an objective view government has harmed far far far far far far far more people that it has ever helped