4 ms·

Semantics. The fact is, of registered voters in California, more people voted against same-sex marriage than for it. Of course, that was 6 years ago... so why

Semantics. The fact is, of registered voters in California, more people voted against same-sex marriage than for it. Of course, that was 6 years ago... so why should Brendan Eich be ostracised in 2014 for donating money to a campaign which was quite popular back then? At what point did Mozilla's mission for a free and open internet turn into one about social justice and identity politics?

vor_ 12y ago
> Of course, that was 6 years ago... so why should Brendan Eich be ostracised in 2014 for donating money to a campaign which was quite popular back then? It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. > At what point did Mozilla's mission for a free and open internet turn into one about social justice and identity politics? This lame attempt to dismiss equality won't fly.
- notjackma 12y ago
  > It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. The world is a big place with different cultures and different opinions. You are making a giant assumption that your world-view is the correct one.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > You are making a giant assumption that your world-view is the correct one. OTOH, if you condemn people for judging Eich, you are -- by so doing -- committing the same offense.
- tibiapejagala 12y ago
  > It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. But it can be more or less wrong in specific circumstances. You seem pretty sure that your opinions and actions will stand the test of time, just like countless people were in the past. So sure that now we are right, and amazed how they could be so wrong. Well, I don't know the future, but see you in 30 years. Let's see what moral fashion will rule those times. Be prepared to be judged.
  - nknighthb 12y ago
    If my opinions and actions don't stand the test of time, and I'm still alive when they don't, I'll repudiate them. Eich had his chance. He declined and ran away instead.
  - mkr-hn 12y ago
    The "they were a product of their times" argument is garbage. I know my use of technology built in unethical conditions will be judged poorly, so I get the most out of tech and try to be pick the best companies to buy from when replacing it. I know my difficulty moving past the gender binary will be judged poorly, so I learn about non-binary genders and people who exist outside gender entirely. I know my past homophobia--even the internalized variety--will be judged poorly. The list could go on for a long time, but the important thing is that I see where I fail and try to fix it. Supporters of discrimination are just as capable as I am of seeing past their failings. They choose not to.
awinder 12y ago
Lots of people get ostracized for supporting and pushing things that were once popular but became massively unpopular, all throughout history. McCarthy advocated and pushed a very, very popular agenda for it's time, but history isn't written in the perspective of it's time, it's written in the perspective of today. It was also never "quite popular", it was essentially a split decision, and has been a very contentious issue for quite a while. It also doesn't take a genius to realize the trajectory of any social rights issue in this country, so I have a hard time feeling any empathy for what happened to Eich. Believe what you want, but if you want to be a popular leader, you've gotta have the intelligence and foresight to realize what kinds of things are bound to get you into trouble one day. And if he realized that and still believed in the cause so much, then there are no real victims, just choices and ramifications.

vor_ 12y ago

> Of course, that was 6 years ago... so why should Brendan Eich be ostracised in 2014 for donating money to a campaign which was quite popular back then? It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. > At what point did Mozilla's mission for a free and open internet turn into one about social justice and identity politics? This lame attempt to dismiss equality won't fly.

notjackma 12y ago
> It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. The world is a big place with different cultures and different opinions. You are making a giant assumption that your world-view is the correct one.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > You are making a giant assumption that your world-view is the correct one. OTOH, if you condemn people for judging Eich, you are -- by so doing -- committing the same offense.
tibiapejagala 12y ago
> It's wrong regardless of when it occurred. But it can be more or less wrong in specific circumstances. You seem pretty sure that your opinions and actions will stand the test of time, just like countless people were in the past. So sure that now we are right, and amazed how they could be so wrong. Well, I don't know the future, but see you in 30 years. Let's see what moral fashion will rule those times. Be prepared to be judged.
- nknighthb 12y ago
  If my opinions and actions don't stand the test of time, and I'm still alive when they don't, I'll repudiate them. Eich had his chance. He declined and ran away instead.
- mkr-hn 12y ago
  The "they were a product of their times" argument is garbage. I know my use of technology built in unethical conditions will be judged poorly, so I get the most out of tech and try to be pick the best companies to buy from when replacing it. I know my difficulty moving past the gender binary will be judged poorly, so I learn about non-binary genders and people who exist outside gender entirely. I know my past homophobia--even the internalized variety--will be judged poorly. The list could go on for a long time, but the important thing is that I see where I fail and try to fix it. Supporters of discrimination are just as capable as I am of seeing past their failings. They choose not to.

awinder 12y ago

Lots of people get ostracized for supporting and pushing things that were once popular but became massively unpopular, all throughout history. McCarthy advocated and pushed a very, very popular agenda for it's time, but history isn't written in the perspective of it's time, it's written in the perspective of today. It was also never "quite popular", it was essentially a split decision, and has been a very contentious issue for quite a while. It also doesn't take a genius to realize the trajectory of any social rights issue in this country, so I have a hard time feeling any empathy for what happened to Eich. Believe what you want, but if you want to be a popular leader, you've gotta have the intelligence and foresight to realize what kinds of things are bound to get you into trouble one day. And if he realized that and still believed in the cause so much, then there are no real victims, just choices and ramifications.