14 ms·

Being in such a progressive community (i.e. young nerdy people), it's easy to forget that this is an enormous deal for some people. A friend of mine recently c

Being in such a progressive community (i.e. young nerdy people), it's easy to forget that this is an enormous deal for some people. A friend of mine recently came out as transgender and the general response was "oh, cool, good for you". It's hard to fathom what it's like for people who aren't in such a supportive environment. There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this, and I don't know society can fix this with anything but time.

s_q_b 12y ago
Even at my fraternity at school, a kid sent a very long heartfelt message that he was dropping because he was gay. Which was followed by a a series of messages from everyone else saying either "we know, we support you unconditionally" or cracking the occasional good-spirited but crass joke. He later served as an officer and was a member until graduation. While at a liberal college, it's easy to forget the challenges people of different orientations face in many places throughout the country.
vegardx 12y ago
There seems to have been a cultural shift in the United States as of lately. Just a few years back most companies was afraid of "choosing" side, and kept things pretty neutral. But look at recent Disney movies and Coca-Cola commercials. They all give the impression that from a marketing perspective it's better to take a stand.
- eevilspock 12y ago
  Not a recent cultural shift, but one that has been steadily making headway over a very long time. A recent tipping point, perhaps.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Where the homesexual agenda in Disney movies? I'd prefer specific examples rather than just handwavey nonsense.
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    IMO it's going a bit far with the interpretation, but Elsa in the movie Frozen has been fairly widely speculated as being an allegory on coming out.
    - jusben1369 12y ago
      It's funny because Frozen was a massive hit in Japan by all accounts. There it had nothing to do with coming out. Instead women really loved the women power and could relate to having to conform to a certain image etc. So perhaps that's the greatness of Frozen. Each culture makes it their own.
  - protonfish 12y ago
    The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. I am NOT saying Ana and Elsa were lesbians, but that Disney seems to be moving away from the prince/princess formula - that the ultimate feat of existence is getting married to someone of the opposite gender. If this is a "homosexual agenda" or not, I say good riddance. That crap is life poison to impressionable young girls.
    - phkahler 12y ago
      >> The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. Have not see Maleficent, but I have heard nuts claiming Frozen was some kind of pro-gay film. It is resolved by (non-romantic) love between family members. I saw the movie twice in theater with my kid and couldn't find ANY indication of gay-ness. Anna ends up going after a man. The main plot is about self acceptance and embracing who you really are. While that metaphor can easily be applied to being gay (in todays world), I suspect the only people who instinctively made the connection are either gay or terribly anti-gay. Gotta love Elsa, her and Merida are the best.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
- lentil_soup 12y ago
  I don't have any data to back it up, but I guess it's just companies following the trend on public opinion? They didn't before because the majority was against it, they do now because the majority is for it. Not sure if that means taking a stand, though.
  - Bpit 12y ago
    They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
  - Bpit 12y ago
    They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
  - cheepin 12y ago
    It's because the 'for' crowd is enthusiastic, so advertisers want to channel a little of their enthusiasm to promote a product. The 'against' crowd is largely apathetic and doesn't associate with 'anti' particularly strongly compared to the 'pro' crowd. On the flip side, anything perceived as anti-gay in business blows up with negative press and talks of boycotts. With Apple's demographic, this will definitely be considered a plus.
- JibberMeTimbers 12y ago
  There is also the recent Android commercial as well!
efaref 12y ago
If they won't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they probably shouldn't buy any computers at all, seeing as the entire field is built on the work of a gay man.
- _pmf_ 12y ago
  Konrad Zuse was not gay.
  - sumedh 12y ago
    I think he is talking about Alan Turing.
    - eevilspock 12y ago
      On one hand, we have a man who worked with the Nazis, and on the other, we have a man persecuted and chemically castrated by the British government for his sexual orientation, who many believe committed suicide as a result.
  - aikah 12y ago
    hmm ,i guess he is talking about Alan Turing who was literaly sentenced to a horrible treatment for being gay. That's one of the greatest shame of UK,it symbolizes bigotery in its purest form.
    - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
      Compared to which country that has never persecuted anyone for being gay?
      - aikah 12y ago
        This isnt a bigotery contest hey? I was talking from the point of view of someone who has the greatest respect for what Turing has done.I mean that's a shame that everything he has done for his country mattered very little when he was judged for being gay.
downandout 12y ago
>There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this I disagree. First, I think it was widely assumed that he was gay, and if it wasn't, he was accidentally outed during a live TV broadcast a few months ago by a CNBC reporter [1]. Second, the people that think this way probably already avoid Apple products, as both Tim Cook and Apple have been vocal on gay rights for quite some time. Finally, the one thing that these kinds of people hate more than those that disagree with their worldview is being personally inconvenienced. If they're already invested in the Apple ecosystem and are used to the iOS UX, they're going to keep paying Tim Cook for a new device every year. [1] http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000288253 http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000288253 - about one minute in
- nailer 12y ago
  Wow. That doesn't sound like an accident - you don't say someone "is fairly open about being gay" unless you're damn sure they are. What an unpleasant person.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    That's a mistake but it should be a career limiting mistake nonetheless.
    - emodendroket 12y ago
      To me this is like saying if you've ever written a bug into production software it should be career-limiting.
      - jacquesm 12y ago
        Disclosures of that nature are not at the same order as writing bugs into production software.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
glifchits 12y ago
The passage of time doesn't "fix" deeply rooted beliefs. However, over time, role models will do things to change those beliefs.
- s_q_b 12y ago
  A god will give an end to these also Time does appear to be healing cultural wounds, even if not quickly enough.
cdr 12y ago
Don't overestimate the progressiveness of young men. Look at how terrible so many of the HN comments are whenever there's a submission relating in any way to women.
- drzaiusapelord 12y ago
  I feel there is a big difference between gay equality and what a lot of young men feel like is a shrill feminism that seems to be much more about axe grinding, political correctness, censorship, and entitlements than any sort of drive towards a true equality. After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement. I think purposely conflating gay rights and feminism is more than a little disingenuous. LGBT movements empower both genders, feminism empowers only one. I think its very possible to be socially progressive in thought but not be a cheerleader for the modern feminist agenda. These things don't necessarily contradict each other.
  - yourad_io 12y ago
    > After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement. So, there are some bad feminists around. [1] When people are absurd, feel free to 'absurd' right back at them (i.e. "Sure, I'm a potential rapist - as much as you are a potential murderer!"). "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. > I think purposely conflating gay rights and feminism is more than a little disingenuous. LGBT movements empower both genders, feminism empowers only one. I'm not following the reasoning here. Both movements are about equality; one focuses on gender, the other on sexual identity/orientation. They are very much two sides of the same coin (the humanEqualityCent). [1] "Are You a Good Feminist or a Bad Feminist?" - Shane Killian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuz3JlZIbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuz3JlZIbk
    - Kalium 12y ago
      > "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. When you are made to feel unwanted, excluded, and otherwise not welcome it is natural to go elsewhere in search of inclusiveness. This is a far more common reaction than that of adopting sympathy for those excluding you. No aspect of this should be surprising to a feminist.
aloma85 12y ago
Very uplifting viewpoint.
newscracker 12y ago
If some people don't want to buy Apple products because of this, that would be a foolish choice. What may be worse than that would be some people trying to color everything Apple makes with this background and attempting to denigrate the products with "jokes" that aren't.
Shivetya 12y ago
Far too many need to believe that people won't buy the products because of his sexuality to bolster their own feelings of superiority than would actually not buy the products. Looking the anti-religious zealotry within this thread is evident of that, far too many just believe the worst in others because they are themselves too bigoted/closeminded to think otherwise.
minusSeven 12y ago
Where are you getting "There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this, and I don't know society can fix this with anything but time." from ?

s_q_b 12y ago

Even at my fraternity at school, a kid sent a very long heartfelt message that he was dropping because he was gay. Which was followed by a a series of messages from everyone else saying either "we know, we support you unconditionally" or cracking the occasional good-spirited but crass joke. He later served as an officer and was a member until graduation. While at a liberal college, it's easy to forget the challenges people of different orientations face in many places throughout the country.

vegardx 12y ago

There seems to have been a cultural shift in the United States as of lately. Just a few years back most companies was afraid of "choosing" side, and kept things pretty neutral. But look at recent Disney movies and Coca-Cola commercials. They all give the impression that from a marketing perspective it's better to take a stand.

eevilspock 12y ago
Not a recent cultural shift, but one that has been steadily making headway over a very long time. A recent tipping point, perhaps.
DanBC 12y ago
Where the homesexual agenda in Disney movies? I'd prefer specific examples rather than just handwavey nonsense.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  IMO it's going a bit far with the interpretation, but Elsa in the movie Frozen has been fairly widely speculated as being an allegory on coming out.
  - jusben1369 12y ago
    It's funny because Frozen was a massive hit in Japan by all accounts. There it had nothing to do with coming out. Instead women really loved the women power and could relate to having to conform to a certain image etc. So perhaps that's the greatness of Frozen. Each culture makes it their own.
- protonfish 12y ago
  The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. I am NOT saying Ana and Elsa were lesbians, but that Disney seems to be moving away from the prince/princess formula - that the ultimate feat of existence is getting married to someone of the opposite gender. If this is a "homosexual agenda" or not, I say good riddance. That crap is life poison to impressionable young girls.
  - phkahler 12y ago
    >> The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. Have not see Maleficent, but I have heard nuts claiming Frozen was some kind of pro-gay film. It is resolved by (non-romantic) love between family members. I saw the movie twice in theater with my kid and couldn't find ANY indication of gay-ness. Anna ends up going after a man. The main plot is about self acceptance and embracing who you really are. While that metaphor can easily be applied to being gay (in todays world), I suspect the only people who instinctively made the connection are either gay or terribly anti-gay. Gotta love Elsa, her and Merida are the best.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
lentil_soup 12y ago
I don't have any data to back it up, but I guess it's just companies following the trend on public opinion? They didn't before because the majority was against it, they do now because the majority is for it. Not sure if that means taking a stand, though.
- Bpit 12y ago
  They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
- Bpit 12y ago
  They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
- cheepin 12y ago
  It's because the 'for' crowd is enthusiastic, so advertisers want to channel a little of their enthusiasm to promote a product. The 'against' crowd is largely apathetic and doesn't associate with 'anti' particularly strongly compared to the 'pro' crowd. On the flip side, anything perceived as anti-gay in business blows up with negative press and talks of boycotts. With Apple's demographic, this will definitely be considered a plus.
JibberMeTimbers 12y ago
There is also the recent Android commercial as well!

efaref 12y ago

If they won't buy Apple products because the CEO is gay, they probably shouldn't buy any computers at all, seeing as the entire field is built on the work of a gay man.

_pmf_ 12y ago
Konrad Zuse was not gay.
- sumedh 12y ago
  I think he is talking about Alan Turing.
  - eevilspock 12y ago
    On one hand, we have a man who worked with the Nazis, and on the other, we have a man persecuted and chemically castrated by the British government for his sexual orientation, who many believe committed suicide as a result.
- aikah 12y ago
  hmm ,i guess he is talking about Alan Turing who was literaly sentenced to a horrible treatment for being gay. That's one of the greatest shame of UK,it symbolizes bigotery in its purest form.
  - oneeyedpigeon 12y ago
    Compared to which country that has never persecuted anyone for being gay?
    - aikah 12y ago
      This isnt a bigotery contest hey? I was talking from the point of view of someone who has the greatest respect for what Turing has done.I mean that's a shame that everything he has done for his country mattered very little when he was judged for being gay.

downandout 12y ago

>There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this I disagree. First, I think it was widely assumed that he was gay, and if it wasn't, he was accidentally outed during a live TV broadcast a few months ago by a CNBC reporter [1]. Second, the people that think this way probably already avoid Apple products, as both Tim Cook and Apple have been vocal on gay rights for quite some time. Finally, the one thing that these kinds of people hate more than those that disagree with their worldview is being personally inconvenienced. If they're already invested in the Apple ecosystem and are used to the iOS UX, they're going to keep paying Tim Cook for a new device every year. [1] http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000288253 http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000288253 - about one minute in

nailer 12y ago
Wow. That doesn't sound like an accident - you don't say someone "is fairly open about being gay" unless you're damn sure they are. What an unpleasant person.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  That's a mistake but it should be a career limiting mistake nonetheless.
  - emodendroket 12y ago
    To me this is like saying if you've ever written a bug into production software it should be career-limiting.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      Disclosures of that nature are not at the same order as writing bugs into production software.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]

glifchits 12y ago

The passage of time doesn't "fix" deeply rooted beliefs. However, over time, role models will do things to change those beliefs.

s_q_b 12y ago
A god will give an end to these also Time does appear to be healing cultural wounds, even if not quickly enough.

cdr 12y ago

Don't overestimate the progressiveness of young men. Look at how terrible so many of the HN comments are whenever there's a submission relating in any way to women.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago
I feel there is a big difference between gay equality and what a lot of young men feel like is a shrill feminism that seems to be much more about axe grinding, political correctness, censorship, and entitlements than any sort of drive towards a true equality. After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement. I think purposely conflating gay rights and feminism is more than a little disingenuous. LGBT movements empower both genders, feminism empowers only one. I think its very possible to be socially progressive in thought but not be a cheerleader for the modern feminist agenda. These things don't necessarily contradict each other.
- yourad_io 12y ago
  > After you've been called a potential rapist several times in an academic or workplace setting just for your gender, you stop sympathizing with the modern feminist movement. So, there are some bad feminists around. [1] When people are absurd, feel free to 'absurd' right back at them (i.e. "Sure, I'm a potential rapist - as much as you are a potential murderer!"). "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. > I think purposely conflating gay rights and feminism is more than a little disingenuous. LGBT movements empower both genders, feminism empowers only one. I'm not following the reasoning here. Both movements are about equality; one focuses on gender, the other on sexual identity/orientation. They are very much two sides of the same coin (the humanEqualityCent). [1] "Are You a Good Feminist or a Bad Feminist?" - Shane Killian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuz3JlZIbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axuz3JlZIbk
  - Kalium 12y ago
    > "Dropping sympathy" for the feminist movement as a response a few bad feminists that you've encountered is not really justified, or rational. When you are made to feel unwanted, excluded, and otherwise not welcome it is natural to go elsewhere in search of inclusiveness. This is a far more common reaction than that of adopting sympathy for those excluding you. No aspect of this should be surprising to a feminist.

aloma85 12y ago

Very uplifting viewpoint.

newscracker 12y ago

If some people don't want to buy Apple products because of this, that would be a foolish choice. What may be worse than that would be some people trying to color everything Apple makes with this background and attempting to denigrate the products with "jokes" that aren't.

Shivetya 12y ago

Far too many need to believe that people won't buy the products because of his sexuality to bolster their own feelings of superiority than would actually not buy the products. Looking the anti-religious zealotry within this thread is evident of that, far too many just believe the worst in others because they are themselves too bigoted/closeminded to think otherwise.

minusSeven 12y ago

Where are you getting "There are undoubtedly many people who will no longer purchase Apple products because of this, and I don't know society can fix this with anything but time." from ?