10 ms·

A Day with Project Ara, Google's Modular Phone

165 points by bufo 12y ago

guidopallemans 12y ago
Fits well with the new Material design. I feel that some of the latest software design trends drift apart from the hardware design trends, where you once had Holo + a black phone or the metallic feel of the OSX interface + a metal macbook
otoburb 12y ago
As the Wired article references, the hope is that this will kickstart a consumer-driven frenzy akin to the PC industry's trajectories. It's a long time in coming, notwithstanding that regulations and FCC compliance seem to be the biggest regulatory obstacles preventing this idea from becoming reality earlier on during the evolution of mobile devices.
- phreeza 12y ago
  A way of thinking about project ara and many other developments in tech is "Smart companies try to commoditize their products' complements". Reading this article (old) really opened my eyes in that regard and I have been noticing the pattern in many places ever since: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html
  - djyaz1200 12y ago
    IMO Our "phones" will soon be a service we login to rather than specific to any one device? If your physical phone breaks you just buy a new one for $50 and log into your cloud based phone. There are already services like that but I suspect it will tip soon for everyone. Aka Google is trying to commoditize the phones AND the carriers.
    - jewel 12y ago
      The recent update that moved Google Voice into Hangouts [1] has made that a reality for me. My phone took a swim a week ago and so I've been using a Nexus 7 as a temporary phone. The only thing missing is that I had to set up my launcher, install all the apps again, configure my IMAP email client, and configure some third-party apps that didn't sync notification sounds. [1]: In case you're not familiar, it added the ability to make and receive VoIP calls.
      - djyaz1200 12y ago
        Sorry about your phone. Yeah I'm aware, the signs of this trend are all around. Interesting how hangouts has become a unified communication hub. Close to hitting mainstream IMO.
  - djyaz1200 12y ago
    Good point and good article, thx!
    - poslathian 12y ago
      seconded
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Why would it do that? Phone owners compete by displaying famous models by famous brands. The idea that they'll compete on hardware specs requires more evidence. I suspect there's always been a strong element of competition based on physical size in computing. PC cases are about as small as you can take that and still leave room for customisability. So my guess is the overlap between the competitive hardware concept space, the custom-build concept space, and the pocket device concept space might be big enough to drive a tiny niche, but not a full consumer frenzy.
ludoo 12y ago
Interesting concepts, but what I really would like to see is a wearable "thing" with computing power, radios, and a way to use voice fro calls and commands, pairable to different screens. So I could have a 4.5-6" screen as a phone when out, an 8-9" as a tablet at home, an 11" and 23" screen for portable and desktop work. All driven from the same computing unit. The "thing" could be a watch, maybe with an integrated Moto Hint-like earbud for calls. Or a pager-like device to carry on your belt or pocket, etc. Each screen would have its own battery, so the "thing" would need less power.
- aeturnum 12y ago
  If the ara project is really, "a device running over an internal network, rather than just everything being connected to a CPU," then it would be a great platform for that vision. Presumably, an easy extension would be another device with its own power supply hooking into the network.
  - jonbarker 12y ago
    Couldn't the power supply be induction?
    - aeturnum 12y ago
      Sure, but it's hard to induce significant current in devices more than a few cm away. Considering we can't wirelessly power phones in a room, getting the phone to wirelessly power a wearable seems unlikely.
- mod 12y ago
  I can't wait for the day when displays are all available for pairing. Even now, I'm frequently wishing my laptop screen would just accept video input, for instance.
gcb4 12y ago
off topic: wired is lame and the site hijacks you. can go back. open in a new tab if on mobile
amaks 12y ago
Modular phones (and computers) is a powerful concept that worked really well with hobbyists (and gamers) so far. It seems to be a healthy duopoly with all-in-one computing devices we're seeing lately.
- drcross 12y ago
  We're moving away from this paradigm though, the traditional ATX desktop is a dying breed and the mindshare has already moved to Intel Next Unit of Computing, RPi, System on a Chip design. For general computing (not hobbiests) we already have enough compute power. See the MacPro and the Mac Mini, most of the parts are not upgradable. I really don't think smartphones will be an exception.
  - yincrash 12y ago
    None of those things are used by gamers.
    - Igglyboo 12y ago
      You'd be surprised, most "gamers" I know can't tell you what a graphics card is. There are a lot more "gamers" than those on HN and reddit. I know three guys at my work, all software developers, who play SC2 daily on their mac minis.
  - Aeolus98 12y ago
    The point that you make about the "old" paradigm is completely valid, in the fact that we're seeing a shift away from towers with interchangeable components to something like a NUC or mac mini for the "average" user, as these smaller formfactors are "good enough". Project Ara on the other hand is trying to do something else entirely. They have the formfactor defined already, that of a modern smartphone. What makes it so interesting is the fact that they're trying to take that formfactor and add the inherent flexibility that comes with a larger system, but without changing the formfactor. This is akin to getting ATX full tower expansion in the same space as the mac mini or even mac pro. It's a daunting task to say the least, one with a constantly changing frame of reference, as the smartphone evolves into a thinner sleeker and lighter device. This makes the Ara developers jobs doubly hard, as they have to develop for 2 generations ahead of where we are for size and weight constrains, while still keeping the bulky, power hungry, and prone to failure interconnnect that is required to assemble disparate parts into a whole unit, as well as all the modules within this target. It's a race that they may never win due to how rapidly those targets shift, but we can hope that it's a moonshot project that one day renders tangible benefits for the everyday phone. To be honest, i'm less and less excited about these physical devices with the set of constraints that being physical devices imparts to them. I really wish that within the next 10 years we hit a Virtualization-level jump in how we interact with information, allowing us to abstract away trivial things like screen size and compute power. The only way this is going to happen is through augmented reality, a clear moonshot project i wish a few more companies invested in rather than the halfhearted attempt that is google glass. Whee I went off on a tangent there.
drcross 12y ago
Ara is doomed to failure. Normal phones are designed with one concept in mind, an overall integrated product. In the case of Ara there are loads of inefficiencies and wasted spaces. A normal phone has one big battery cell and a case that protect it. For Ara if you want to add two battery units they are smaller in total than one big one because of the doubling up of matter needed for structural integrity. There are enough manufacturers in the industry to cater for individual preferences but thinking that one adaptable phone design is the best way to cater for everyone is misguided. People generally don't even upgrade the CPU in their desktop machine, the thought that they are going to do so in their smartphone is idiotic.
- jshevek 12y ago
  You do realize that upgrading the cpu on an ara phone is easier than swapping an sd card. Compare this to upgrading the cpu on a computer.
wmeredith 12y ago
I am really excited about the possibilities here. If they can pull this off (big if) you'd basically end up something like the App Store or Google Play, but it's hardware modules. Drools
Someone1234 12y ago
Project Ara is a cool concept but very vaporware-y. I don't think it will ever come to market as a general release consumer product. I have three distinct reasons for this belief: - Current gen' cellphones are extremely dense internally. There is no empty space, a Project Ara phone needs room for connectors, housing, and similar. Where does this space come from? The battery? - Either the components will be tightly coupled in which case you'll lose the primarily benefit (interchangeable components) or loosely coupled in which case you'll lose performance (as data is transitioned in and out of generic interfaces). - The connectors can never be "good enough." With the phone heating and cooling (environmentally or from internal sources) and the phone getting knocked around/bent/etc you'll see components disconnect from one another and the thing crash, a lot. The Project Ara project might generate some cool concepts which they can go forward with, a lot of cool ideas come from other failed ideas. But as a whole concept where you can slide in and out components and it somehow doesn't increase the size, weight, or decrease reliability or battery life just seems like a pipe dream (baring any massive improvement in battery technology). I genuinely hope they succeed and I'd buy a Project Ara phone if they can engineer something remotely palatable, however the engineering challenges on this one just seem too high to overcome. PS - I didn't even touch on the software issues and some of the chick-egg problems relating to this (e.g. are they going to have a pre-Android OS run who's only job is to reconfigure Android for the hardware changes?). PPS - This negativity has nothing to do with the recent demo crashes. That happens during development, it is normal. I am more concerned about the technological challenges they face and if they're over-come-able at all.
- Mahn 12y ago
  I wouldn't call it vaporware, Project Ara phones simply won't be top of the line, but that doesn't mean it can't happen; perhaps the compromises in performance and quality will be worth it for what modular phones enable.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    If it ships at all it isn't vaporware. But my argument was that it would never ship, which is why I used the term.
pessimizer 12y ago
>Project Ara is like old-fashioned 1980s-era Southern California punk rock music; it is whatever you make it to be. What a narrowcast reference. It made me smile, though.
cromwellian 12y ago
People keep saying this won't work and that modular HW was really only good for games, but there's lots of examples of modularity already in consumer space: 1) Many mobile phones are already modular to an extent. Replaceable batteries, replaceable SD cards, replaceable SIM cards. Then there's an entire ecosystem of add-on cases for phones. Sony is shipping add-on camera lens even. Ara is just proposing to make some additional things "add-on", like swapping the camera module. If they only made battery and camera the swappable modules alone, it would be a big win, and plenty of people would choose different camera modules. 2) Look at the prosumer camera market, both DSLR and new mirror-less models. A significant population of people desire interchangeable lens. A phone with interchangeable camera module could have all kinds of possibilities. At a certain point, phones will be so powerful and capable that losing 15% of size/weight efficiency to achieve flexibility, especially as devices become commoditized will be a tradeoff worth making.
- chimeracoder 12y ago
  > losing 15% of size/weight efficiency to achieve flexibility It's funny because our phones have already become more than 15% bigger than they were a few years ago, and people were saying then that phones couldn't get any bigger. There are definitely people who don't like large phones, but the sales of the Samsung line alone (not to mention recent entrants to the "phablet" market like Apple) prove that our earlier assumptions about device size were wrong. I definitely would appreciate having a slightly larger phone in exchange for some of the modularity you describe.
  - smellf 12y ago
    Absolutely. I had the first Droid X, and when I got it, folks were always asking "does it even fit in your pocket?" These days that 4" screen wouldn't stand out at all. It's the same way now with my Note 3. We get used to larger phones, in spite of the inconvenience, because of the other features they have that we want.
- valarauca1 12y ago
  >and that modular HW was really only good for games Yes modular hardware is great for games, and for computing components in general. The highly specialized component manufacturers that popped up around the IBM ATX/mATX/ITX/mITX PC form factors allowed for the multi-billion per year Graphics Card, Hard Drive, Ram, etc. and for each to compete internally. This internal competition over real estate within a computer has driven a lot of hardware innovation. And with servers also conforming to these standardized form factors, we now see almost everything running on x86_64 ATX form factor components.
bobajeff 12y ago
So if project Ara isn't finished by early next year they'll axe the whole thing? Why aren't all projects managed this way?
- poslathian 12y ago
  I invite you to work on a project that is managed this way. The answer to your question will become clear.
habosa 12y ago
The concept of a phone running on an internal network is really amazing. I can't believe they got it going fast enough to be watching Colbert on this thing (like the article says). Fairly useless article though. The whole thing just kind of rambles until the one sentence at the end where they describe the working demo.
justcommenting 12y ago
correct me if i'm wrong, but one thing i didn't see in the article was the relationship between this project and a start-up from a while back...i think it was called something like phonebloks from a year or two ago? the article led me to think this DARPA guy just brought the idea to phones from the satellite world, but especially given the timelines, i can't help but wonder if there's more to the story than that.
- jshevek 12y ago
  From what I've heard, project ara was started by motorolla before phoneblocks announce their idea. Motorolla was working in secrecy, and this work transferred to google when google bought motorolla. When the phoneblocks people became very high profile, the project ara people decided to reach out to them and let the phoneblocks people that project Ara was already trying to bring a similar vision to reality. Phoneblocks had no engineering ability, only a great vision and an appealing (though impractical) design. So Phoneblocks threw their support behind project Ara.
poslathian 12y ago
If you are interested in working on Project Ara and future projects that incorporate modular Android and hardware networking, check out http://static.leaflabs.com/flyers/ara/LeafLabs_Hiring.pdf http://static.leaflabs.com/flyers/ara/LeafLabs_Hiring.pdf
taylorbuley 12y ago
Nice clip, but as a tech journo the amount and type of corrections put on (late at night) says "Google plant" all over it.
tomcam 12y ago
If this project works it could prove a godsend to users with disabilities, even though it can't by definition ever be state of the art (as observed elsewhere in this post modern phones have zero wasted space, and housing/integration will necessarily require more space per feature). A functioning Ara ecosystem would allow the economical creation of devices with smaller production runs. One version may have a much bigger amplifier/speaker unit for hard of hearing users. Another may have a huge screen for those with impaired eyesight. Yet another could be optimized for those with extremely limited motor function à la Stephen Hawking. It will also be a godsend to me, because even though I have giant farmer hands, I detest phones bigger than an iPhone 4S.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  > It will also be a godsend to me, because even though I have giant farmer hands, I detest phones bigger than an iPhone 4S. What are you imagining here? I don't see how this could help your use case.
- jshevek 12y ago
  >> even though it can't by definition ever be state of the art Is 'state of the art' a synonym for 'slim' ? When I think 'state of the art' I think "most advanced hardware". In theory, if Ara is successful, it will be much easier, more cost effective, and less ecologically harmful to keep your Ara phone constantly at the bleeding edge of 'state of the art' than it would be to constantly upgrade to the latest phones. Consider also that no single phone on the market combines all the best hardware in one place, one could argue that ONLY with Ara could you have a fully state of the art phone.
mehrdada 12y ago
This is a solution desperately searching for a problem. Exactly what Steve Jobs warned against in developing technology. I personally can't care less about modularity in a phone. Would rather have a 1mm thinner phone over any sort of modularity. Almost all modules can be added wirelessly, unless they are latency-sensitive or very high bandwidth. Additionally, due to economies of scale, it may make sense to integrate a module that's extremely useful to only a half of the population in every device manufactured and that may still be a net win economically.
- bobbles 12y ago
  Just like there are iMacs and custom built desktop PCs, more choice is good for everyone
  - mehrdada 12y ago
    Good for everyone, ...except Google shareholders maybe? (Maybe not though; it might earn more for them in marketing value, as Satya Nadella pointed out.)
- jshevek 12y ago
  You really going to try to bring in the guy who said that small tablets and large phones were a non-starter? Today? Without irony?
  - mehrdada 12y ago
    The guy who built the company with the largest market cap in the US and the phone I am using today and is still my favorite gadget, yes. Who he is is of little relevance here, by the way. I am not appealing to his authority. I'm simply citing the most prolific source of this mindset I know of to make the concept I am talking about clearer.
Steko 12y ago
I think we already have modular phones in the larger sense. We can attach thousands of peripherals via Bluetooth, the charger, headphone jack or wifi and add one of zillions of third party cases. Our personal data sits in the cloud and/or on our huge PC drives and works seamlessly with many slabs. Apps are portable, many even across ecosystems.
dflock 12y ago
If you think about Project Ara as a TriCorder, rather than a Phone, it's a much more interesting concept, I think.
freyr 12y ago
This is cool technology, but I wonder if it's solving any problems for the consumer? If I cracked my phone's screen, it would be great getting to replace it without having to pay for an entirely new phone. I suppose it might be nice to upgrade the camera, if a nicer camera becomes available. I'm not sure what else. The author claims a precedent for modular technology, and mentions computers, cars, and airplanes. But if anything, computers and cars now seem more integrated and more difficult for owners to modify. I've never tried swapping out parts on a plane. Also, I wonder how Android might support this. It's difficult enough maintaining compatibility among the set of Android phones; increasing the number of possible hardware configurations by orders of magnitude by will probably require some major changes at the OS level. Anyway, I'm sounding negative. But I do think this is cool. Like DARPA programs, it could have a positive long-term impact in both intended and unexpected ways.
- jshevek 12y ago
  > I suppose it might be nice to upgrade the camera, Yes, exactly. Every aspect can be upgraded, at the best time to upgrade that part. I've upgraded entire devices in the past simply to make one component better (switching to higher network speeds, getting a better screen, getting a larger screen, getting a faster processor). Instead of buying 4 entire devices, I could have accomplished the same upgrade path for half the cost. This would not only save me money, but would cause less harm to the environment. I would love to be able to switch screens on my phone depending on what I am doing. For example, slot in an eink screen when reading on a flight, and enjoy that sweet long lasting battery. You could switch carriers and keep your phone, just by slotting in a new module. You could buy a hugely expensive, awesome camera module, and not only be able to keep it even when you want to upgrade to a faster phone or a larger phone, you can share it with your ara using friends. >> Also, I wonder how Android might support this. Yes, apparently they've already made a lot of progress in this area.
diminoten 12y ago
Why is everyone so negative on here? This is totally kickass, and could create a physical marketplace along the same lines of what we currently know as an "app store". What's so "this is impossible" about this idea? We live in the 21st century, and we're trying to do things like send people to Mars and cure cancer. We've got cars that run exclusively on electricity, and potentially a propellent-less way of producing thrust -- why is "a modular mobile device" (it doesn't even have to accept phone calls, does it) beyond the realm of possibility? Just seems super negative, for absolutely no reason.
- grecy 12y ago
  > Why is everyone so negative on here? It's a very common trend on HN to nay-say anything that changes the status quo. Rather than looking at all those cool things you listed and saying "wow, this has great potential, I hope x,y&z..." It's much more popular on HN to say "This will never work, it's a stupid idea to change the status quo". It's like HN'ers are afraid of change, or afraid of trying something new.
- ecopoesis 12y ago
  Because it's easy to see the shortcomings of something, and hard to see the potential, especially the potential for sea-change products. If it was easy to create or see the potential of universe denting products, then everyone would do it. But it's hard. This is so common, not just amoung the HN crowd, that the proverbial phrase "missing the forest for the trees" exists to describe it. Of course, we could just also say "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
  - simi_ 12y ago
    I don't think Project Ara be a major breakthrough of any kind, yet I'm still very excited about it. This (hacking for hacking's sake) is exactly what I imagined HN would get excited about, but instead I only hear some obvious arguments and negativity. Let's rename this site to Serious Business News, shall we?.
    - jshevek 12y ago
zackify 12y ago
how about you take a FUCKING VIDEO. Thanks :)
tsunamifury 12y ago
As the iPhone gets smaller, its more and more apparent that it ALREADY IS a modular part of a larger computing ecosystem. The Ara project is fundamentally flawed because we don't need to replace parts inside a phone, the phone is a CPU. We need to add parts ON to it. So make the iphone smaller, add a second screen (watch) add some sensors (bluetooth heart rate monitor) and add a few other items which are replaceable and far more useful not hard integrated into the phone anyways. If you want a better camera, just buy one and 'add' it to your phone via bluetooth. Then you can get a camera that is physically and technologically designed to be the best it can be as an appliance. All the things I want to add to my phone or replace, I dont need to be on the BUS of the phone itself -- I just need it to be able to communicate.
- venomsnake 12y ago
  The goal of Ara is to be IBM-PC ... and to put apple in 2018 where they were in 1998
  - tsunamifury 12y ago
    Except that the majority of PC users never upgraded or changed out their hardware. Its building a device for a market that barely, if ever existed. The replaceable model benefited manufacturers (not customers) by making customizable PCs to sell with price discrimination easier.
    - jshevek 12y ago
      You make a good point supporting why Ara is an excellent idea, and why it will be good for consumers if Ara succeeds. Consumers don't need to upgrade their modules to benefit from the economic dynamics that standardization/modularity brings. Modularity brings better components, a greater diversity of systems, and lower prices - even when the consumer doesn't upgrade and change out their hardware themselves.
- zo1 12y ago
  What does this have to do with the Iphone? You do realize there are other phones out there besides the Iphone, right?
infectoid 12y ago
Honestly I can see way more exciting things to do with this other than use it as a phone. Something like a tricorder from Star Trek but with the ability to change and upgrade its components to give it new functions. I think they are selling it in the wrong direction when they call it a phone. It could ultimately be the next natural progression for hackable hardware i.e. Arduino -> RaspberryPi -> The new google thing.
kretor 12y ago
I'm skeptical if many people really want this. Modularity makes much more sense for televisions, but there's still people buying smart TVs, i.e. non-modular TVs.
mng2 12y ago
I am curious but skeptical. Curious as in, what kind of bus architecture are they running? PCIe with aggressive power management is my guess. Modularity is cool but the infrastructure always adds to the cost. The more I think about it, Ara makes no sense in the phone market. This initiative is more about the tricorder market, if you will.
acd 12y ago
I like that it is serviceable so that you do not have to throw away your cell phone because the battery is dead. Fact a lot of old electronic devices including phones gets illegally exported to African countries and China. There they are not recycled in an environmental friendly way. Here is the documentary e-wastelandfilm, it will make you think twice before ordering the next great smartphone that soon will be obsolete by a better one. http://www.e-wastelandfilm.com/ http://www.e-wastelandfilm.com/ Thanks to the Google team for creating Project Ara!
fidotron 12y ago
To be fair here, Google struggle with the idea of removable storage in existing devices, so expecting them to make a reasonable leap into reconfigurable ones is a pipe dream. More seriously, this is indicative of a lot of the old pc crowd not having grasped what a SOC actually is (the clue is in the name) or that package on package memory has been a thing for years. Our non PC devices are far more integrated than people seem to realize, and this is why they have the cost, space and battery usage benefits that they do.
diltonm 12y ago
In software design, modular works well so I'd say this is something to watch.
scottm30 12y ago
this will take the fun out of buying a new phone. upgrade the dirty old one you have that's full of hair and pocket fluff. modularity works great on a desktop PC, but I'm skeptical that it will appeal to many people in the mobile space. ping me in 2 yrs if i'm wrong and i'll eat my words!

165 points by bufo 12y ago

Fits well with the new Material design. I feel that some of the latest software design trends drift apart from the hardware design trends, where you once had Holo + a black phone or the metallic feel of the OSX interface + a metal macbook

otoburb 12y ago

As the Wired article references, the hope is that this will kickstart a consumer-driven frenzy akin to the PC industry's trajectories. It's a long time in coming, notwithstanding that regulations and FCC compliance seem to be the biggest regulatory obstacles preventing this idea from becoming reality earlier on during the evolution of mobile devices.

phreeza 12y ago
A way of thinking about project ara and many other developments in tech is "Smart companies try to commoditize their products' complements". Reading this article (old) really opened my eyes in that regard and I have been noticing the pattern in many places ever since: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html
- djyaz1200 12y ago
  IMO Our "phones" will soon be a service we login to rather than specific to any one device? If your physical phone breaks you just buy a new one for $50 and log into your cloud based phone. There are already services like that but I suspect it will tip soon for everyone. Aka Google is trying to commoditize the phones AND the carriers.
  - jewel 12y ago
    The recent update that moved Google Voice into Hangouts [1] has made that a reality for me. My phone took a swim a week ago and so I've been using a Nexus 7 as a temporary phone. The only thing missing is that I had to set up my launcher, install all the apps again, configure my IMAP email client, and configure some third-party apps that didn't sync notification sounds. [1]: In case you're not familiar, it added the ability to make and receive VoIP calls.
    - djyaz1200 12y ago
      Sorry about your phone. Yeah I'm aware, the signs of this trend are all around. Interesting how hangouts has become a unified communication hub. Close to hitting mainstream IMO.
- djyaz1200 12y ago
  Good point and good article, thx!
  - poslathian 12y ago
    seconded
TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Why would it do that? Phone owners compete by displaying famous models by famous brands. The idea that they'll compete on hardware specs requires more evidence. I suspect there's always been a strong element of competition based on physical size in computing. PC cases are about as small as you can take that and still leave room for customisability. So my guess is the overlap between the competitive hardware concept space, the custom-build concept space, and the pocket device concept space might be big enough to drive a tiny niche, but not a full consumer frenzy.

ludoo 12y ago

Interesting concepts, but what I really would like to see is a wearable "thing" with computing power, radios, and a way to use voice fro calls and commands, pairable to different screens. So I could have a 4.5-6" screen as a phone when out, an 8-9" as a tablet at home, an 11" and 23" screen for portable and desktop work. All driven from the same computing unit. The "thing" could be a watch, maybe with an integrated Moto Hint-like earbud for calls. Or a pager-like device to carry on your belt or pocket, etc. Each screen would have its own battery, so the "thing" would need less power.

aeturnum 12y ago
If the ara project is really, "a device running over an internal network, rather than just everything being connected to a CPU," then it would be a great platform for that vision. Presumably, an easy extension would be another device with its own power supply hooking into the network.
- jonbarker 12y ago
  Couldn't the power supply be induction?
  - aeturnum 12y ago
    Sure, but it's hard to induce significant current in devices more than a few cm away. Considering we can't wirelessly power phones in a room, getting the phone to wirelessly power a wearable seems unlikely.
mod 12y ago
I can't wait for the day when displays are all available for pairing. Even now, I'm frequently wishing my laptop screen would just accept video input, for instance.

gcb4 12y ago

off topic: wired is lame and the site hijacks you. can go back. open in a new tab if on mobile

amaks 12y ago

Modular phones (and computers) is a powerful concept that worked really well with hobbyists (and gamers) so far. It seems to be a healthy duopoly with all-in-one computing devices we're seeing lately.

drcross 12y ago
We're moving away from this paradigm though, the traditional ATX desktop is a dying breed and the mindshare has already moved to Intel Next Unit of Computing, RPi, System on a Chip design. For general computing (not hobbiests) we already have enough compute power. See the MacPro and the Mac Mini, most of the parts are not upgradable. I really don't think smartphones will be an exception.
- yincrash 12y ago
  None of those things are used by gamers.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    You'd be surprised, most "gamers" I know can't tell you what a graphics card is. There are a lot more "gamers" than those on HN and reddit. I know three guys at my work, all software developers, who play SC2 daily on their mac minis.
- Aeolus98 12y ago
  The point that you make about the "old" paradigm is completely valid, in the fact that we're seeing a shift away from towers with interchangeable components to something like a NUC or mac mini for the "average" user, as these smaller formfactors are "good enough". Project Ara on the other hand is trying to do something else entirely. They have the formfactor defined already, that of a modern smartphone. What makes it so interesting is the fact that they're trying to take that formfactor and add the inherent flexibility that comes with a larger system, but without changing the formfactor. This is akin to getting ATX full tower expansion in the same space as the mac mini or even mac pro. It's a daunting task to say the least, one with a constantly changing frame of reference, as the smartphone evolves into a thinner sleeker and lighter device. This makes the Ara developers jobs doubly hard, as they have to develop for 2 generations ahead of where we are for size and weight constrains, while still keeping the bulky, power hungry, and prone to failure interconnnect that is required to assemble disparate parts into a whole unit, as well as all the modules within this target. It's a race that they may never win due to how rapidly those targets shift, but we can hope that it's a moonshot project that one day renders tangible benefits for the everyday phone. To be honest, i'm less and less excited about these physical devices with the set of constraints that being physical devices imparts to them. I really wish that within the next 10 years we hit a Virtualization-level jump in how we interact with information, allowing us to abstract away trivial things like screen size and compute power. The only way this is going to happen is through augmented reality, a clear moonshot project i wish a few more companies invested in rather than the halfhearted attempt that is google glass. Whee I went off on a tangent there.

drcross 12y ago

Ara is doomed to failure. Normal phones are designed with one concept in mind, an overall integrated product. In the case of Ara there are loads of inefficiencies and wasted spaces. A normal phone has one big battery cell and a case that protect it. For Ara if you want to add two battery units they are smaller in total than one big one because of the doubling up of matter needed for structural integrity. There are enough manufacturers in the industry to cater for individual preferences but thinking that one adaptable phone design is the best way to cater for everyone is misguided. People generally don't even upgrade the CPU in their desktop machine, the thought that they are going to do so in their smartphone is idiotic.

jshevek 12y ago
You do realize that upgrading the cpu on an ara phone is easier than swapping an sd card. Compare this to upgrading the cpu on a computer.

wmeredith 12y ago

I am really excited about the possibilities here. If they can pull this off (big if) you'd basically end up something like the App Store or Google Play, but it's hardware modules. Drools

Someone1234 12y ago

Project Ara is a cool concept but very vaporware-y. I don't think it will ever come to market as a general release consumer product. I have three distinct reasons for this belief: - Current gen' cellphones are extremely dense internally. There is no empty space, a Project Ara phone needs room for connectors, housing, and similar. Where does this space come from? The battery? - Either the components will be tightly coupled in which case you'll lose the primarily benefit (interchangeable components) or loosely coupled in which case you'll lose performance (as data is transitioned in and out of generic interfaces). - The connectors can never be "good enough." With the phone heating and cooling (environmentally or from internal sources) and the phone getting knocked around/bent/etc you'll see components disconnect from one another and the thing crash, a lot. The Project Ara project might generate some cool concepts which they can go forward with, a lot of cool ideas come from other failed ideas. But as a whole concept where you can slide in and out components and it somehow doesn't increase the size, weight, or decrease reliability or battery life just seems like a pipe dream (baring any massive improvement in battery technology). I genuinely hope they succeed and I'd buy a Project Ara phone if they can engineer something remotely palatable, however the engineering challenges on this one just seem too high to overcome. PS - I didn't even touch on the software issues and some of the chick-egg problems relating to this (e.g. are they going to have a pre-Android OS run who's only job is to reconfigure Android for the hardware changes?). PPS - This negativity has nothing to do with the recent demo crashes. That happens during development, it is normal. I am more concerned about the technological challenges they face and if they're over-come-able at all.

Mahn 12y ago
I wouldn't call it vaporware, Project Ara phones simply won't be top of the line, but that doesn't mean it can't happen; perhaps the compromises in performance and quality will be worth it for what modular phones enable.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  If it ships at all it isn't vaporware. But my argument was that it would never ship, which is why I used the term.

pessimizer 12y ago

>Project Ara is like old-fashioned 1980s-era Southern California punk rock music; it is whatever you make it to be. What a narrowcast reference. It made me smile, though.

cromwellian 12y ago

People keep saying this won't work and that modular HW was really only good for games, but there's lots of examples of modularity already in consumer space: 1) Many mobile phones are already modular to an extent. Replaceable batteries, replaceable SD cards, replaceable SIM cards. Then there's an entire ecosystem of add-on cases for phones. Sony is shipping add-on camera lens even. Ara is just proposing to make some additional things "add-on", like swapping the camera module. If they only made battery and camera the swappable modules alone, it would be a big win, and plenty of people would choose different camera modules. 2) Look at the prosumer camera market, both DSLR and new mirror-less models. A significant population of people desire interchangeable lens. A phone with interchangeable camera module could have all kinds of possibilities. At a certain point, phones will be so powerful and capable that losing 15% of size/weight efficiency to achieve flexibility, especially as devices become commoditized will be a tradeoff worth making.

chimeracoder 12y ago
> losing 15% of size/weight efficiency to achieve flexibility It's funny because our phones have already become more than 15% bigger than they were a few years ago, and people were saying then that phones couldn't get any bigger. There are definitely people who don't like large phones, but the sales of the Samsung line alone (not to mention recent entrants to the "phablet" market like Apple) prove that our earlier assumptions about device size were wrong. I definitely would appreciate having a slightly larger phone in exchange for some of the modularity you describe.
- smellf 12y ago
  Absolutely. I had the first Droid X, and when I got it, folks were always asking "does it even fit in your pocket?" These days that 4" screen wouldn't stand out at all. It's the same way now with my Note 3. We get used to larger phones, in spite of the inconvenience, because of the other features they have that we want.
valarauca1 12y ago
>and that modular HW was really only good for games Yes modular hardware is great for games, and for computing components in general. The highly specialized component manufacturers that popped up around the IBM ATX/mATX/ITX/mITX PC form factors allowed for the multi-billion per year Graphics Card, Hard Drive, Ram, etc. and for each to compete internally. This internal competition over real estate within a computer has driven a lot of hardware innovation. And with servers also conforming to these standardized form factors, we now see almost everything running on x86_64 ATX form factor components.

bobajeff 12y ago

So if project Ara isn't finished by early next year they'll axe the whole thing? Why aren't all projects managed this way?

poslathian 12y ago
I invite you to work on a project that is managed this way. The answer to your question will become clear.

habosa 12y ago

The concept of a phone running on an internal network is really amazing. I can't believe they got it going fast enough to be watching Colbert on this thing (like the article says). Fairly useless article though. The whole thing just kind of rambles until the one sentence at the end where they describe the working demo.

justcommenting 12y ago

correct me if i'm wrong, but one thing i didn't see in the article was the relationship between this project and a start-up from a while back...i think it was called something like phonebloks from a year or two ago? the article led me to think this DARPA guy just brought the idea to phones from the satellite world, but especially given the timelines, i can't help but wonder if there's more to the story than that.

jshevek 12y ago
From what I've heard, project ara was started by motorolla before phoneblocks announce their idea. Motorolla was working in secrecy, and this work transferred to google when google bought motorolla. When the phoneblocks people became very high profile, the project ara people decided to reach out to them and let the phoneblocks people that project Ara was already trying to bring a similar vision to reality. Phoneblocks had no engineering ability, only a great vision and an appealing (though impractical) design. So Phoneblocks threw their support behind project Ara.

poslathian 12y ago

If you are interested in working on Project Ara and future projects that incorporate modular Android and hardware networking, check out http://static.leaflabs.com/flyers/ara/LeafLabs_Hiring.pdf http://static.leaflabs.com/flyers/ara/LeafLabs_Hiring.pdf

taylorbuley 12y ago

Nice clip, but as a tech journo the amount and type of corrections put on (late at night) says "Google plant" all over it.

tomcam 12y ago

If this project works it could prove a godsend to users with disabilities, even though it can't by definition ever be state of the art (as observed elsewhere in this post modern phones have zero wasted space, and housing/integration will necessarily require more space per feature). A functioning Ara ecosystem would allow the economical creation of devices with smaller production runs. One version may have a much bigger amplifier/speaker unit for hard of hearing users. Another may have a huge screen for those with impaired eyesight. Yet another could be optimized for those with extremely limited motor function à la Stephen Hawking. It will also be a godsend to me, because even though I have giant farmer hands, I detest phones bigger than an iPhone 4S.

seanflyon 12y ago
> It will also be a godsend to me, because even though I have giant farmer hands, I detest phones bigger than an iPhone 4S. What are you imagining here? I don't see how this could help your use case.
jshevek 12y ago
>> even though it can't by definition ever be state of the art Is 'state of the art' a synonym for 'slim' ? When I think 'state of the art' I think "most advanced hardware". In theory, if Ara is successful, it will be much easier, more cost effective, and less ecologically harmful to keep your Ara phone constantly at the bleeding edge of 'state of the art' than it would be to constantly upgrade to the latest phones. Consider also that no single phone on the market combines all the best hardware in one place, one could argue that ONLY with Ara could you have a fully state of the art phone.

mehrdada 12y ago

This is a solution desperately searching for a problem. Exactly what Steve Jobs warned against in developing technology. I personally can't care less about modularity in a phone. Would rather have a 1mm thinner phone over any sort of modularity. Almost all modules can be added wirelessly, unless they are latency-sensitive or very high bandwidth. Additionally, due to economies of scale, it may make sense to integrate a module that's extremely useful to only a half of the population in every device manufactured and that may still be a net win economically.

bobbles 12y ago
Just like there are iMacs and custom built desktop PCs, more choice is good for everyone
- mehrdada 12y ago
  Good for everyone, ...except Google shareholders maybe? (Maybe not though; it might earn more for them in marketing value, as Satya Nadella pointed out.)
jshevek 12y ago
You really going to try to bring in the guy who said that small tablets and large phones were a non-starter? Today? Without irony?
- mehrdada 12y ago
  The guy who built the company with the largest market cap in the US and the phone I am using today and is still my favorite gadget, yes. Who he is is of little relevance here, by the way. I am not appealing to his authority. I'm simply citing the most prolific source of this mindset I know of to make the concept I am talking about clearer.

Steko 12y ago

I think we already have modular phones in the larger sense. We can attach thousands of peripherals via Bluetooth, the charger, headphone jack or wifi and add one of zillions of third party cases. Our personal data sits in the cloud and/or on our huge PC drives and works seamlessly with many slabs. Apps are portable, many even across ecosystems.

dflock 12y ago

If you think about Project Ara as a TriCorder, rather than a Phone, it's a much more interesting concept, I think.

freyr 12y ago

This is cool technology, but I wonder if it's solving any problems for the consumer? If I cracked my phone's screen, it would be great getting to replace it without having to pay for an entirely new phone. I suppose it might be nice to upgrade the camera, if a nicer camera becomes available. I'm not sure what else. The author claims a precedent for modular technology, and mentions computers, cars, and airplanes. But if anything, computers and cars now seem more integrated and more difficult for owners to modify. I've never tried swapping out parts on a plane. Also, I wonder how Android might support this. It's difficult enough maintaining compatibility among the set of Android phones; increasing the number of possible hardware configurations by orders of magnitude by will probably require some major changes at the OS level. Anyway, I'm sounding negative. But I do think this is cool. Like DARPA programs, it could have a positive long-term impact in both intended and unexpected ways.

jshevek 12y ago
> I suppose it might be nice to upgrade the camera, Yes, exactly. Every aspect can be upgraded, at the best time to upgrade that part. I've upgraded entire devices in the past simply to make one component better (switching to higher network speeds, getting a better screen, getting a larger screen, getting a faster processor). Instead of buying 4 entire devices, I could have accomplished the same upgrade path for half the cost. This would not only save me money, but would cause less harm to the environment. I would love to be able to switch screens on my phone depending on what I am doing. For example, slot in an eink screen when reading on a flight, and enjoy that sweet long lasting battery. You could switch carriers and keep your phone, just by slotting in a new module. You could buy a hugely expensive, awesome camera module, and not only be able to keep it even when you want to upgrade to a faster phone or a larger phone, you can share it with your ara using friends. >> Also, I wonder how Android might support this. Yes, apparently they've already made a lot of progress in this area.

diminoten 12y ago

Why is everyone so negative on here? This is totally kickass, and could create a physical marketplace along the same lines of what we currently know as an "app store". What's so "this is impossible" about this idea? We live in the 21st century, and we're trying to do things like send people to Mars and cure cancer. We've got cars that run exclusively on electricity, and potentially a propellent-less way of producing thrust -- why is "a modular mobile device" (it doesn't even have to accept phone calls, does it) beyond the realm of possibility? Just seems super negative, for absolutely no reason.

grecy 12y ago
> Why is everyone so negative on here? It's a very common trend on HN to nay-say anything that changes the status quo. Rather than looking at all those cool things you listed and saying "wow, this has great potential, I hope x,y&z..." It's much more popular on HN to say "This will never work, it's a stupid idea to change the status quo". It's like HN'ers are afraid of change, or afraid of trying something new.
ecopoesis 12y ago
Because it's easy to see the shortcomings of something, and hard to see the potential, especially the potential for sea-change products. If it was easy to create or see the potential of universe denting products, then everyone would do it. But it's hard. This is so common, not just amoung the HN crowd, that the proverbial phrase "missing the forest for the trees" exists to describe it. Of course, we could just also say "No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
- simi_ 12y ago
  I don't think Project Ara be a major breakthrough of any kind, yet I'm still very excited about it. This (hacking for hacking's sake) is exactly what I imagined HN would get excited about, but instead I only hear some obvious arguments and negativity. Let's rename this site to Serious Business News, shall we?.
  - jshevek 12y ago

zackify 12y ago

how about you take a FUCKING VIDEO. Thanks :)

tsunamifury 12y ago

As the iPhone gets smaller, its more and more apparent that it ALREADY IS a modular part of a larger computing ecosystem. The Ara project is fundamentally flawed because we don't need to replace parts inside a phone, the phone is a CPU. We need to add parts ON to it. So make the iphone smaller, add a second screen (watch) add some sensors (bluetooth heart rate monitor) and add a few other items which are replaceable and far more useful not hard integrated into the phone anyways. If you want a better camera, just buy one and 'add' it to your phone via bluetooth. Then you can get a camera that is physically and technologically designed to be the best it can be as an appliance. All the things I want to add to my phone or replace, I dont need to be on the BUS of the phone itself -- I just need it to be able to communicate.

venomsnake 12y ago
The goal of Ara is to be IBM-PC ... and to put apple in 2018 where they were in 1998
- tsunamifury 12y ago
  Except that the majority of PC users never upgraded or changed out their hardware. Its building a device for a market that barely, if ever existed. The replaceable model benefited manufacturers (not customers) by making customizable PCs to sell with price discrimination easier.
  - jshevek 12y ago
    You make a good point supporting why Ara is an excellent idea, and why it will be good for consumers if Ara succeeds. Consumers don't need to upgrade their modules to benefit from the economic dynamics that standardization/modularity brings. Modularity brings better components, a greater diversity of systems, and lower prices - even when the consumer doesn't upgrade and change out their hardware themselves.
zo1 12y ago
What does this have to do with the Iphone? You do realize there are other phones out there besides the Iphone, right?

infectoid 12y ago

Honestly I can see way more exciting things to do with this other than use it as a phone. Something like a tricorder from Star Trek but with the ability to change and upgrade its components to give it new functions. I think they are selling it in the wrong direction when they call it a phone. It could ultimately be the next natural progression for hackable hardware i.e. Arduino -> RaspberryPi -> The new google thing.

kretor 12y ago

I'm skeptical if many people really want this. Modularity makes much more sense for televisions, but there's still people buying smart TVs, i.e. non-modular TVs.

mng2 12y ago

I am curious but skeptical. Curious as in, what kind of bus architecture are they running? PCIe with aggressive power management is my guess. Modularity is cool but the infrastructure always adds to the cost. The more I think about it, Ara makes no sense in the phone market. This initiative is more about the tricorder market, if you will.

acd 12y ago

I like that it is serviceable so that you do not have to throw away your cell phone because the battery is dead. Fact a lot of old electronic devices including phones gets illegally exported to African countries and China. There they are not recycled in an environmental friendly way. Here is the documentary e-wastelandfilm, it will make you think twice before ordering the next great smartphone that soon will be obsolete by a better one. http://www.e-wastelandfilm.com/ http://www.e-wastelandfilm.com/ Thanks to the Google team for creating Project Ara!

fidotron 12y ago

To be fair here, Google struggle with the idea of removable storage in existing devices, so expecting them to make a reasonable leap into reconfigurable ones is a pipe dream. More seriously, this is indicative of a lot of the old pc crowd not having grasped what a SOC actually is (the clue is in the name) or that package on package memory has been a thing for years. Our non PC devices are far more integrated than people seem to realize, and this is why they have the cost, space and battery usage benefits that they do.

diltonm 12y ago

In software design, modular works well so I'd say this is something to watch.

scottm30 12y ago

this will take the fun out of buying a new phone. upgrade the dirty old one you have that's full of hair and pocket fluff. modularity works great on a desktop PC, but I'm skeptical that it will appeal to many people in the mobile space. ping me in 2 yrs if i'm wrong and i'll eat my words!