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Android actually _is_ a Linux desktop system. It is a GUI on top of a Java based virtual machine on top of a Linux kernel. This Linux desktop has actually over

by progman 12y ago

Android actually _is_ a Linux desktop system. It is a GUI on top of a Java based virtual machine on top of a Linux kernel. This Linux desktop has actually overthrown both Windows and iOS. The market share was 85% in Q2 2014 according to: http://thenextweb.com/google/2014/07/31/android-reached-record-85-smartphone-market-share-q2-2014-report/ http://thenextweb.com/google/2014/07/31/android-reached-reco... Android just uses another type of input than classical keyboards and mice. But you can also use keyboards and mice here. There are x86 implementations of Android, and you can root into the Linux system, and you can use Linux features within your Android device. Terminals for instance: http://news.dice.com/2014/03/31/run-linux-terminal-android/ http://news.dice.com/2014/03/31/run-linux-terminal-android/ Of course, Windows 10 advocates don't want to let people know these facts :-)

dtech 12y ago
That's bullocks, you're just changing definitions to suit your needs. Android is a mobile phone OS and as suchhas a marginal market share on desktop. Windows still has over 90% market share on desktop (http://www.netmarketshare.com/ http://www.netmarketshare.com/)
- progman 12y ago
  > you're just changing definitions to suit your needs. Same to you :-) Windows is also a mobile phone OS since Win 8.
  - boomlinde 12y ago
    So, what exactly is your definition of a desktop system? If we're going to have this discussion we should get the agreement or disagreement over that definition out of the way. To me, it is a desktop computer. I'm inclined to include laptops in that definition as well. Basically, it's the kind of computer I'd use to get my computer work done at a desk, with as little regard to what exactly that work entails as possible. I haven't used Windows 8, but it still seems to have a greater market share on desktop systems than Android. Judging by the above link, Windows 8 alone has a greater share of the desktop market than the category of systems based on Linux in its entirety.
    - JetSpiegel 12y ago
      Can you install Android on a desktop? Then it's not a desktop OS. It's quite simple.
      - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
        Define "desktop" and we'll tell you. You can run Android on a base system that is connected to a standard desktop monitor, printer, mouse and keyboard.
        aruggirello 12y ago
        Yep, that's what I do. I even have an Android X86 running in VirtualBox in my Linux box - and several apps installed. No problem with keyboard and mouse, emulated full HD display, audio... even Google voice recognition works! Of course I use it mostly to play around and do tests.
      - progman 12y ago
        http://www.android-x86.org http://www.android-x86.org
        bovermyer 12y ago
        I'll give you points for tenacity, but Android was never intended to be used on desktop computers. The link you give is just a hobby project, nothing more. And since we're being pedantic here, let's talk about definitions. A mobile operating system is one that has been designed primarily for devices intended to be carried on one's person, such as a phone or tablet. A desktop operating system is one that has been designed primarily for devices that are large enough to be stationary during use (e.g., workstations). Both form factors have unique requirements and capabilities, and need vastly different user interfaces. Further, you seem to be arguing that the kernel (and only the kernel) is what defines an operating system. If that's the case, then Android can only properly be described as a fork of Linux, not Linux itself.
        12y ago
  - dtech 12y ago
    You're saying: * Android is a desktop OS * Android has a market share way larger than Windows * Therefore Android has overthrown Windows as a desktop OS Which is completely false. Because on desktop Windows still has a ~90% market share.
    - progman 12y ago
      > Because on desktop Windows still has a ~90% market share. This is only true for _PC_ desktops but not for the overall desktop situation. Consider Windows 10. It derives from the mobile Win 8 desktop which is made more suitable for PCs so that people can use office and spreadsheets and other classic software in the traditional Win 7 way. But you can do many of these things right now on Android devices. For instance, gaming and office: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.office.officehub&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.... Both "static" and mobile desktops are continually merging together. Soon we will have mobile desktops which can turn into PC desktops instantly by just plugging the device into a docking station which is connected with a large display, keyboard, and mouse. So when we define "desktop" as the sum of all traditional desktop applications then Android has really overthrown all other OS. The current office versions of Android are yet just not as convenient as PC desktop versions. Soon it will make no difference if you write your letters on a PC or on a mobile device with docking station. Of course this doesn't count for productivity software (software engineering, CAD etc.) which still requires a lot of PC horse power.
      - benjin 12y ago
        >only true for _PC_ desktops What other kind of desktop is there? Chromebooks/laptops fall under the same category, but that still isn't nearly enough to justify your claim.
- nailer 12y ago
  Desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore. I'm also coming down harshly on Linux here - they tried to be a better desktop OS rather than skate to where the puck was moving to. The vast majority of actual 'personal computing' is phones and tablets. PCs are content creation devices. Asides from Android obviously not being the traditional stack - no glibc, no KDE or GNOME - AOSP isn't very useful compared to semi-proprietary Android. We could also say that CMU Mach / FreeBSD won the desktop because iOS and OS X use them.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    >Desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore. For whom? Companies might make more money selling mobile devices compared to desktop/laptop PCs but that doesn't equate to the inane statement oft repeated that "desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore". Desktop (including laptops of course) is where 99% of the world's actual office, accounting, design, writing, programming, editing etc, computing based work is happening.
    - computerjunkie 12y ago
      ">>> Desktop (including laptops of course) is where 99% of the world's actual office, accounting, design, writing, programming, editing etc, computing based work is happening." Agreed. Try typing out a dissertation on a tablet (no external keyboard or mouse to compensate) which has an approaching deadline.
    - nailer 12y ago
      To consumers who don't create content - as the comment you're replying to clearly states.
      - mrec 12y ago
        Is an email "content"? Is a blog post? A HN/Reddit/whatever comment? I don't think the old stereotype of "consumers" as some sort of purely passive livestock is especially useful any more. Clay Shirky's old but very readable "Here Comes Everybody" makes a similar case at much greater and more articulate length.
boomlinde 12y ago
I guess this either means that you either think that those 85% are running Android on their desktop computers, or that you have a different idea of what a "desktop system" is than anyone else. Android isn't a desktop system except for a select few masochists. Personally, I want my desktop system to be a real power horse, and despite being built on top of GNU/Linux, Android doesn't seem like a particularly open environment and it obviously wasn't developed with desktop users in mind.
- hawski 12y ago
  It's not built on top of GNU/Linux, but on top of Linux. If you count using GCC and binutils as GNU part then we should start calling things Intel/Linux if someone uses ICC and other funny things.
  - boomlinde 12y ago
    Thanks, I didn't know that it didn't have GNU user space programs.
- progman 12y ago
  I guess with "desktop system" you actually mean PC desktops. In my definition a desktop system is a system on a desktop. In the past decades this meant PCs but in the last couple of years many users chose tablets as their favorite desktops. They just replaced their PC desktops by mobile desktops for gaming, surfing and emails. On the PC desktop world Windows is still leading with Win7 and XP, followed by OSX, followed by Linux and others. Linux won't get leadership here but who cares? Linux is a very good PC desktop system anyway, absolutely competitive to Win 7.
  - boomlinde 12y ago
    OK, since your definition seems remove every aspect of "desktop system" that makes it a meaningful distinction, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. As for linux on PC desktop, competitive in what sense? I prefer a good Linux based OS over Windows any day, but in terms of market share, it's just a ridiculous thing to say.
sjogress 12y ago
I think we should differentiate between desktop and other uses. If it is just (any flavour/use) of Linux vs (any flavour/use) of Windows, then I think the vast majority of people use Linux more than Windows. Routers, TV-decoders (and most of the streaming servers they use for on-demand content), NAS for home use, phones, etc all use Linux.

by progman 12y ago

dtech 12y ago

That's bullocks, you're just changing definitions to suit your needs. Android is a mobile phone OS and as suchhas a marginal market share on desktop. Windows still has over 90% market share on desktop (http://www.netmarketshare.com/ http://www.netmarketshare.com/)

progman 12y ago
> you're just changing definitions to suit your needs. Same to you :-) Windows is also a mobile phone OS since Win 8.
- boomlinde 12y ago
  So, what exactly is your definition of a desktop system? If we're going to have this discussion we should get the agreement or disagreement over that definition out of the way. To me, it is a desktop computer. I'm inclined to include laptops in that definition as well. Basically, it's the kind of computer I'd use to get my computer work done at a desk, with as little regard to what exactly that work entails as possible. I haven't used Windows 8, but it still seems to have a greater market share on desktop systems than Android. Judging by the above link, Windows 8 alone has a greater share of the desktop market than the category of systems based on Linux in its entirety.
  - JetSpiegel 12y ago
    Can you install Android on a desktop? Then it's not a desktop OS. It's quite simple.
    - pbhjpbhj 12y ago
      Define "desktop" and we'll tell you. You can run Android on a base system that is connected to a standard desktop monitor, printer, mouse and keyboard.
      - aruggirello 12y ago
        Yep, that's what I do. I even have an Android X86 running in VirtualBox in my Linux box - and several apps installed. No problem with keyboard and mouse, emulated full HD display, audio... even Google voice recognition works! Of course I use it mostly to play around and do tests.
    - progman 12y ago
      http://www.android-x86.org http://www.android-x86.org
      - bovermyer 12y ago
        I'll give you points for tenacity, but Android was never intended to be used on desktop computers. The link you give is just a hobby project, nothing more. And since we're being pedantic here, let's talk about definitions. A mobile operating system is one that has been designed primarily for devices intended to be carried on one's person, such as a phone or tablet. A desktop operating system is one that has been designed primarily for devices that are large enough to be stationary during use (e.g., workstations). Both form factors have unique requirements and capabilities, and need vastly different user interfaces. Further, you seem to be arguing that the kernel (and only the kernel) is what defines an operating system. If that's the case, then Android can only properly be described as a fork of Linux, not Linux itself.
        12y ago
- dtech 12y ago
  You're saying: * Android is a desktop OS * Android has a market share way larger than Windows * Therefore Android has overthrown Windows as a desktop OS Which is completely false. Because on desktop Windows still has a ~90% market share.
  - progman 12y ago
    > Because on desktop Windows still has a ~90% market share. This is only true for _PC_ desktops but not for the overall desktop situation. Consider Windows 10. It derives from the mobile Win 8 desktop which is made more suitable for PCs so that people can use office and spreadsheets and other classic software in the traditional Win 7 way. But you can do many of these things right now on Android devices. For instance, gaming and office: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.office.officehub&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.... Both "static" and mobile desktops are continually merging together. Soon we will have mobile desktops which can turn into PC desktops instantly by just plugging the device into a docking station which is connected with a large display, keyboard, and mouse. So when we define "desktop" as the sum of all traditional desktop applications then Android has really overthrown all other OS. The current office versions of Android are yet just not as convenient as PC desktop versions. Soon it will make no difference if you write your letters on a PC or on a mobile device with docking station. Of course this doesn't count for productivity software (software engineering, CAD etc.) which still requires a lot of PC horse power.
    - benjin 12y ago
      >only true for _PC_ desktops What other kind of desktop is there? Chromebooks/laptops fall under the same category, but that still isn't nearly enough to justify your claim.
nailer 12y ago
Desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore. I'm also coming down harshly on Linux here - they tried to be a better desktop OS rather than skate to where the puck was moving to. The vast majority of actual 'personal computing' is phones and tablets. PCs are content creation devices. Asides from Android obviously not being the traditional stack - no glibc, no KDE or GNOME - AOSP isn't very useful compared to semi-proprietary Android. We could also say that CMU Mach / FreeBSD won the desktop because iOS and OS X use them.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore. For whom? Companies might make more money selling mobile devices compared to desktop/laptop PCs but that doesn't equate to the inane statement oft repeated that "desktop computing doesn't really matter that much anymore". Desktop (including laptops of course) is where 99% of the world's actual office, accounting, design, writing, programming, editing etc, computing based work is happening.
  - computerjunkie 12y ago
    ">>> Desktop (including laptops of course) is where 99% of the world's actual office, accounting, design, writing, programming, editing etc, computing based work is happening." Agreed. Try typing out a dissertation on a tablet (no external keyboard or mouse to compensate) which has an approaching deadline.
  - nailer 12y ago
    To consumers who don't create content - as the comment you're replying to clearly states.
    - mrec 12y ago
      Is an email "content"? Is a blog post? A HN/Reddit/whatever comment? I don't think the old stereotype of "consumers" as some sort of purely passive livestock is especially useful any more. Clay Shirky's old but very readable "Here Comes Everybody" makes a similar case at much greater and more articulate length.

boomlinde 12y ago

I guess this either means that you either think that those 85% are running Android on their desktop computers, or that you have a different idea of what a "desktop system" is than anyone else. Android isn't a desktop system except for a select few masochists. Personally, I want my desktop system to be a real power horse, and despite being built on top of GNU/Linux, Android doesn't seem like a particularly open environment and it obviously wasn't developed with desktop users in mind.

hawski 12y ago
It's not built on top of GNU/Linux, but on top of Linux. If you count using GCC and binutils as GNU part then we should start calling things Intel/Linux if someone uses ICC and other funny things.
- boomlinde 12y ago
  Thanks, I didn't know that it didn't have GNU user space programs.
progman 12y ago
I guess with "desktop system" you actually mean PC desktops. In my definition a desktop system is a system on a desktop. In the past decades this meant PCs but in the last couple of years many users chose tablets as their favorite desktops. They just replaced their PC desktops by mobile desktops for gaming, surfing and emails. On the PC desktop world Windows is still leading with Win7 and XP, followed by OSX, followed by Linux and others. Linux won't get leadership here but who cares? Linux is a very good PC desktop system anyway, absolutely competitive to Win 7.
- boomlinde 12y ago
  OK, since your definition seems remove every aspect of "desktop system" that makes it a meaningful distinction, we'll just have to agree to disagree here. As for linux on PC desktop, competitive in what sense? I prefer a good Linux based OS over Windows any day, but in terms of market share, it's just a ridiculous thing to say.

sjogress 12y ago

I think we should differentiate between desktop and other uses. If it is just (any flavour/use) of Linux vs (any flavour/use) of Windows, then I think the vast majority of people use Linux more than Windows. Routers, TV-decoders (and most of the streaming servers they use for on-demand content), NAS for home use, phones, etc all use Linux.