5 ms·

Ma.gnolia back for a week already being forced to change name

38 points by abraham 17y ago

Quarrelsome 17y ago
Lol, "within 5 days". Some people are so very unreasonable... nor does it massively sound like they know what they're talking about. 5 days appears to be a little too short imo, wouldn't most of these kind of things be measured by the week/month or is this just scare tactics. Can I send a cease and desist that says minus 10 seconds? (meaning they've already failed to comply with it :D )
- ajg1977 17y ago
  Frankly I thought the tone of "hey, we need to ask you to stop" was a refreshing and reasonable change from the usual threats and bluster to be found in most C&D letters. Whether they have a valid claim or not would be for a lawyer to decide, but if they do have a registered trademark for Magnolia that relates to computer/internet services they're in pretty good shape.
  - sdrinf 17y ago
    Is this the case, where they're forced to send out C&Ds, or risk having their trademark lost? (such as happened with Google: http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:UCKy7KCtdhQJ:xooglers.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html+site:xooglers.blogspot.com/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:UCKy7KCtdhQJ:xooglers.b... )
    - ajg1977 17y ago
      Yes. If you do not defend a trademark you run the risk of having it deemed abandoned, after which people can use it freely or even re-register it for themselves.
blasdel 17y ago
Big surprise: Ma.gnolia guy continues to be an idiot. At least this time around he's blogging about the uninformed idiocy he's about to do before he does it...
- caffeine 17y ago
  Would you care to expand? You mean that changing Magnolia's name is idiotic? Or keeping it intact is? I think he should be able to get away with renaming the site Ma.gnolia (with a dot).
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    I suspect he is referring to the fact that Magnolia lost all their data a little while back due to a poor backup policy (I forget the exact details).
    - idlewords 17y ago
      The details are worth remembering. They had an enormous database (half a terabyte or so) due to their decision to store cached content in database tables. Their backup strategy was to try to sync their live DB files to another machine over firewire. When the master database eventually got corrupted, they dutifully rsynced the corrupt files over to the "backup". Once the database finally rolled over and died, they claimed to be unable to recover any user data at all from the hard drives. But it seems they never bothered to go to a vendor specializing in MySQL recovery. Offers of help from Percona went unanswered, at least in public. Full disclosure - I run a competing site (pinboard.in). Magnolia's stunning negligence in securing user data, and Larry Halff's attempts to cast himself as a victim of internet trolls when confronted by his angry users, are pretty much what motivated me to start the project.
      - jrockway 17y ago
        This is a much better reply than someone else's a few levels up. You analyzed the mistakes and you decided to learn from them and create a competing product. That is much more enjoyable to read about than "that guy is an idiot". I wish I could upmod twice.
patio11 17y ago
The lawyers that I used to work with would advise merely putting the letter in a filing cabinet and taking no action on it ("Even if they have no case, having you flapping your lips in print just makes my job potentially more difficult later"). That said, I'd be inclined to write him something like this: Dear CEO: I received your letter regarding your belief that ma.gnolia.com is in violation of your trademark for "Magnolia" in the United States. In the future, you may find that when sending a cease and desist letter, it is helpful to include pertinent details of your trademark registration such as reference numbers, a detailed sample of the registered mark, and what classification you are registered under. Your legal representation can explain the significance of these to you. Without them it is impossible for me to conclusively evaluate whether ma.gnolia could possibly infringe on your registered trademark. As a matter of US law, your trademark is likely not to the word "Magnolia" in all senses, but probably scoped to its use in CMS software. As ma.gnolia does not sell CMS software, there is no possibility of market confusion with regards to the purchase of CMS software. We both have presences on the Internet, but frankly, trademark law is not a guarantee that you will be the only mention of the word Magnolia on the Internet. You claim that "[ma.gnolia's] graphic appearance can be totally related to our CD". It is unclear to me that you are making a claim here based in trademark law. If you are, I would need a copy of your registered specimen to compare it to our logo to determine whether the claim is valid. That being said, a cursory inspection of the logo present on your website shows the word Magnolia. A cursory inspection of our logo shows the word Ma.gnolia with a giant flower on it. Your claim that these are confusingly similar is baseless as a matter of law. Your lawyers are welcome to contact my lawyers if they have any other questions. Cordially yours,
- patio11 17y ago
  Oh, I found their registration: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4004:riq7f.2.2 http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4004:ri... Their trademark is for [Magnolia] is scoped to "in the field of content management".
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    The search session expires :) But (for everyone else) if you run a search for Magnolia on that site it is the first (or second) one on the list. I cant find the supposed Europe one.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
compay 17y ago
Perhaps a name change wouldn't be such a bad thing for him, to make a clean break with his previous site which died spectacularly with no backups.
- callahad 17y ago
  From what I recall, the old Ma.gnolia did have backups. They just weren't tested, and thus, it turned out that they weren't functional. It was a failure of method, rather than an outright failure to try.
wavesplash 17y ago
The Magnolia trademark hasn't been issued to Magnolia Systems yet. It's only been published for opposition. Which means if the gnolia.com crew have been using the mark in commerce before March, 2006, they can file an opposition claim. The whole cease and desist letter is bogus until the trademark has been approved. However, if gnolia.com doesn't oppose the trademark claim now, before it's approved, then it's an uphill battle if the other company decides to sue. Note Magnolia Systems is filing under multiple subsections - the only one you care about is the online commerce section. They can have all the others.

38 points by abraham 17y ago

Lol, "within 5 days". Some people are so very unreasonable... nor does it massively sound like they know what they're talking about. 5 days appears to be a little too short imo, wouldn't most of these kind of things be measured by the week/month or is this just scare tactics. Can I send a cease and desist that says minus 10 seconds? (meaning they've already failed to comply with it :D )

ajg1977 17y ago
Frankly I thought the tone of "hey, we need to ask you to stop" was a refreshing and reasonable change from the usual threats and bluster to be found in most C&D letters. Whether they have a valid claim or not would be for a lawyer to decide, but if they do have a registered trademark for Magnolia that relates to computer/internet services they're in pretty good shape.
- sdrinf 17y ago
  Is this the case, where they're forced to send out C&Ds, or risk having their trademark lost? (such as happened with Google: http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:UCKy7KCtdhQJ:xooglers.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html+site:xooglers.blogspot.com/&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:UCKy7KCtdhQJ:xooglers.b... )
  - ajg1977 17y ago
    Yes. If you do not defend a trademark you run the risk of having it deemed abandoned, after which people can use it freely or even re-register it for themselves.

blasdel 17y ago

Big surprise: Ma.gnolia guy continues to be an idiot. At least this time around he's blogging about the uninformed idiocy he's about to do before he does it...

caffeine 17y ago
Would you care to expand? You mean that changing Magnolia's name is idiotic? Or keeping it intact is? I think he should be able to get away with renaming the site Ma.gnolia (with a dot).
- ErrantX 17y ago
  I suspect he is referring to the fact that Magnolia lost all their data a little while back due to a poor backup policy (I forget the exact details).
  - idlewords 17y ago
    The details are worth remembering. They had an enormous database (half a terabyte or so) due to their decision to store cached content in database tables. Their backup strategy was to try to sync their live DB files to another machine over firewire. When the master database eventually got corrupted, they dutifully rsynced the corrupt files over to the "backup". Once the database finally rolled over and died, they claimed to be unable to recover any user data at all from the hard drives. But it seems they never bothered to go to a vendor specializing in MySQL recovery. Offers of help from Percona went unanswered, at least in public. Full disclosure - I run a competing site (pinboard.in). Magnolia's stunning negligence in securing user data, and Larry Halff's attempts to cast himself as a victim of internet trolls when confronted by his angry users, are pretty much what motivated me to start the project.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      This is a much better reply than someone else's a few levels up. You analyzed the mistakes and you decided to learn from them and create a competing product. That is much more enjoyable to read about than "that guy is an idiot". I wish I could upmod twice.

patio11 17y ago

The lawyers that I used to work with would advise merely putting the letter in a filing cabinet and taking no action on it ("Even if they have no case, having you flapping your lips in print just makes my job potentially more difficult later"). That said, I'd be inclined to write him something like this: Dear CEO: I received your letter regarding your belief that ma.gnolia.com is in violation of your trademark for "Magnolia" in the United States. In the future, you may find that when sending a cease and desist letter, it is helpful to include pertinent details of your trademark registration such as reference numbers, a detailed sample of the registered mark, and what classification you are registered under. Your legal representation can explain the significance of these to you. Without them it is impossible for me to conclusively evaluate whether ma.gnolia could possibly infringe on your registered trademark. As a matter of US law, your trademark is likely not to the word "Magnolia" in all senses, but probably scoped to its use in CMS software. As ma.gnolia does not sell CMS software, there is no possibility of market confusion with regards to the purchase of CMS software. We both have presences on the Internet, but frankly, trademark law is not a guarantee that you will be the only mention of the word Magnolia on the Internet. You claim that "[ma.gnolia's] graphic appearance can be totally related to our CD". It is unclear to me that you are making a claim here based in trademark law. If you are, I would need a copy of your registered specimen to compare it to our logo to determine whether the claim is valid. That being said, a cursory inspection of the logo present on your website shows the word Magnolia. A cursory inspection of our logo shows the word Ma.gnolia with a giant flower on it. Your claim that these are confusingly similar is baseless as a matter of law. Your lawyers are welcome to contact my lawyers if they have any other questions. Cordially yours,

patio11 17y ago
Oh, I found their registration: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4004:riq7f.2.2 http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4004:ri... Their trademark is for [Magnolia] is scoped to "in the field of content management".
- ErrantX 17y ago
  The search session expires :) But (for everyone else) if you run a search for Magnolia on that site it is the first (or second) one on the list. I cant find the supposed Europe one.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

compay 17y ago

Perhaps a name change wouldn't be such a bad thing for him, to make a clean break with his previous site which died spectacularly with no backups.

callahad 17y ago
From what I recall, the old Ma.gnolia did have backups. They just weren't tested, and thus, it turned out that they weren't functional. It was a failure of method, rather than an outright failure to try.

wavesplash 17y ago

The Magnolia trademark hasn't been issued to Magnolia Systems yet. It's only been published for opposition. Which means if the gnolia.com crew have been using the mark in commerce before March, 2006, they can file an opposition claim. The whole cease and desist letter is bogus until the trademark has been approved. However, if gnolia.com doesn't oppose the trademark claim now, before it's approved, then it's an uphill battle if the other company decides to sue. Note Magnolia Systems is filing under multiple subsections - the only one you care about is the online commerce section. They can have all the others.