5 ms·

UK developer working on replacing heavy aircraft windows with smartscreen panels

24 points by denzil_correa 12y ago

weego 12y ago
I appreciate that it's an artists impression and thus over-selling the possible reality, but I can't help but imagine most people, myself included, would not feel very comfortable flying in something that, from the inside, barely felt like it had any kind of solid structure. People have an expectation of a certain robustness around them, and I don't believe it would be easily overcome.
- AndrewDucker 12y ago
  This should have the appearance of a _more_ solid structure, because it wouldn't have windows, and would therefore be a tube of solid metal.
- Sharlin 12y ago
  Without some currently-nonexisting 3D technology, a 2D display trivially can't give you a view remotely similar to what a window offers, so you'd just see a flat wall with pixels in it.
  - JamesArgo 12y ago
    With head tracking it can look quite good. Though that only works for one person.
DigitalSea 12y ago
Seems to me a saving of 0.75% in fuel is hardly worth striking fear into the hearts of nervous travellers like me. I am nervous enough as it is. At least currently I can choose not to look out the window, but being in a plane that uses HD panels that look like you can see through the plane will cause me to have a panic attack. Somewhat cool idea, but I can not see this ever being a thing on this scale. Panels will introduce new challenges like providing adequate power and what about the cost of replacing them? How often do airplane windows need to be replaced in comparison to an OLED screen? And then there are the security implications. Have you ever wondered why you are asked to raise the window shade for takeoff and landing? It is part procedure and part security. It allows on the ground personnel to assess a dangerous situation or see into the plane for other reasons. My hands are sweating just thinking about it.
- nether 12y ago
  >My hands are sweating just thinking about it. You have a phobia of flying. The solution isn't aircraft manufacturers accommodating that, but you seeking the right mental health services to treat your mental illness.
  - Gracana 12y ago
    I would love a glass plane, but I don't think it would take a flying "phobia" to be uncomfortable with this. Besides, if you're trying to get more people to fly in your planes, telling would-be customers that they need psychiatric counseling to overcome their anxiety probably isn't the best approach.
  - hrktb 12y ago
    I think more people have some level of this phobia that one would expect. Also people have a trust problem regarding airplanes. Not the "will it crash" kind of distrust, but more a diffuse and generic feeling coming from lost baggages, delayed flights, overbooking, nickel and diming, bland food and so on. The experience is genuinely awful for most travellers. Adding things to fret about (i.e. the scenery projection is BSOD for the whole flight, we don't know if we landed or not, etc) is just asking for troubles.
  - DigitalSea 12y ago
    I have a phobia of flying, but I do not have a mental illness. That is a little rough. The rudeness was uncalled for there, Nether. Please be a bit more respectful next time, thanks. In-fact, I am currently in Seattle and travelled from Australia, 13 hours on a plane to LA and then 2.5 hours on a plane from LA to Seattle (with rough turbulence). A few months ago I travelled from Australia to San Francisco on a 13.5 hour plane ride, on the way back it was close to 15 hours. Last Christmas I took about 9 plane rides, connecting flights and a couple long distance flights. Australia to South Korea, South Korea to London, London to Paris, Paris to Rome, Rome to Poland, Poland to Germany , Germany back to London and then London back to South Korea, and South Korea back to Australia. The reason I can fly even though I have a fear of flying is because I can choose to not see outside. A plane of panelled walls that makes it appear see through would not only freak me out, but what about others with actual mental illnesses? I think it is a foolish idea. I know people who are not afraid of flying who would be freaked out by this.
smiler 12y ago
Considering that people like to sleep on planes and the flight attendants / cabin crew will get people to close the blinds / dim the cabin lights as quickly as they can, this will never take off.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
They should add an app for tablets and mobile phones to watch multiple cameras from outside.
- noir_lord 12y ago
  Occulus Rift slaved to multiple camera's would make the entire plane "vanish" (much like current military systems allow pilots to look "through" the plane). Now that I would pay for :)
- brc 12y ago
  Some airlines already do have multiple camera feeds from out side the plane, which you can watch as a channel on the inflight video. I've seen ones which point towards the front wheel which are very cool to watch on takeoff/landing.
Ankaios 12y ago
I wonder if they even tested it out at small scale yet. Screens will give the wrong parallax–it won't look like the view out a window. (It might be fine for a view displayed on a distant forward bulkhead or maybe even on seat backs, but the large views on walls they portrayed would look quite odd.) Also, even if they got it to work decently, I wonder how long it would take for the screens to be covered by ads or sitcom reruns.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
femto 12y ago
Who gets to control the "window"? Digitised systems are amenable to networking, which increases the number of options for who or what controls them. The answer is increasingly "not the user", or a gilded cage which gives the impression of user control. As it is, a manual window provides the passenger with some control of their environment. If the airline seizes control of the window, won't this feed into a feeling of lack of control and increased anxiety in passengers?
- saryant 12y ago
  > As it is, a manual window provides the passenger with some control of their environment. If the airline seizes control of the window, won't this feed into a feeling of lack of control and increased anxiety in passengers? The 787 already allows this. Flight attendants can change the window "shades" of the entire plane from a single control.
- benologist 12y ago
  This doesn't really add up, except on small planes most of the passengers have no proximity or access to windows at all and the few with windows can be overruled at any time by a steward.
brc 12y ago
I love staring out plane windows. On a flight over interesting areas, I can spend a lot of time watching the ground scroll past. I love watching sunrises and sunsets, and observing different cloud patterns. Anything that reduced that experience would be bad, if you ask me. Plus, as has already been mentioned, they are an important security measure for passenger flights, especially in emergency situations. That's why they ask you to lift the blinds for takeoff/landing. Fire crews are able to see inside the plane and look for smoke/flames/trapped people.
nnain 12y ago
But this is not a new news! I've been hearing about such 'concept' ideas by aircraft manufacturers for months, if not for years now. What I take issue with is the wording of the sub-heading of this story, "UK developer working on replacing heavy aircraft windows with uber-light smartscreen panels to cut fuel consumption and slash air fares". How is the inception of this idea related to some artist/developer sitting in UK? With all due credit to the UK peoples for contribution to the field of engineering, this sub-heading is a mis-representation of facts and it seems like theguardian is simply trying to push some sort of agenda to the rest of the world.
- billforsternz 12y ago
  It's not at all clear to me what your objection is. You don't like that the developer is in the UK ? Doesn't seem very rational. You think there are lots of development teams working on this, not just one in the UK ? Okay but the article is about the one in the UK.
  - nnain 12y ago
    The article tends to suggest as if some uber-cool team mentioned in this article came up with this idea; while that is clearly not the case. It's media coverage for some random company without any attempt to identify who started this first.
    - billforsternz 12y ago
      Thanks, makes more sense now.
joosters 12y ago
Just wait until you're sitting on a ten hour flight next to one of those screens. How many hours of advertising do you reckon it'll broadcast to you?
- drhodes 12y ago
  btw, adblocker-AR for the occulus reality browser blocks those.
stavrianos 12y ago
Why do we need the screens? If window weight is a problem, why not just remove them and be done.
- rogerbinns 12y ago
  Note that windows do serve an important safety function in the event of a crash. They allow assessing the conditions outside before opening doors, for example so that passengers don't try to evacuate into a fire. They also allow light inside, which is another reason why window shades are required to be up during takeoff and landing. Stats including phase of flight http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
billforsternz 12y ago
All of the top level comments in this thread dismiss this (intriguing) idea. What is it about the hacker community that makes us so quick to find fault with new ideas? My guess: We are people who are struggling with difficult problems all day, so the first thing we do is spot potential problems.
- colechristensen 12y ago
  It is, plainly, a fairly stupid gimmick. Hackers, engineers, and those of like mind should (and do) think about things honestly, not positively. Nearly every breakthrough you read about in the news is simply bunk. If you didn't have this attitude, you'd be fairly disappointed because dozens of times every year cancer is cured, batteries increase capacity by 50%, cheap fusion is almost here, somebody's figured out a free-energy machine... on and on and on. The world is full of scams, gimmicks, and overexcited news outlets (and self promoting individuals) touting breakthroughs in every field. If you get excited about each one you start to look foolish really quickly. Some truly exciting things _do_ happen from time to time, but we're pessimistic (nay, realistic) about so many things because that's just how the world is.
  - billforsternz 12y ago
    I agree that healthy skepticism is sensible, but it's easy to let that drift into a "things are going to stay pretty much as they are" bias. Things aren't, not in the medium to long term. Yet I perceive evidence of that bias on Hacker News. In this particular case, I'd judge some disruption in this area is at least plausible. Adding windows is really difficult from a material science perspective, it creates structural weaknesses that must be compensated for, and making sure those windows never blow out to some 9 sigma safety threshold must be a nightmare. In short the windows impose enormous complications and costs. Last week I flew in an Emirates A380, equipped with a variety of outboard cameras. I got by far the most interesting and beautiful views I've ever seen from an airliner, via both a big screen and the seatback screen. Not by peering out a tiny, awkwardly angled window. It's not implausible to me that this might signal a possible trend for future development.
hereonbusiness 12y ago
A big problem with OLED displays is the lifespan of the blue leds that are used (~10k hours to half brightness). When you're in the skies there's a lot of blue you need to show.

24 points by denzil_correa 12y ago

weego 12y ago

I appreciate that it's an artists impression and thus over-selling the possible reality, but I can't help but imagine most people, myself included, would not feel very comfortable flying in something that, from the inside, barely felt like it had any kind of solid structure. People have an expectation of a certain robustness around them, and I don't believe it would be easily overcome.

AndrewDucker 12y ago
This should have the appearance of a _more_ solid structure, because it wouldn't have windows, and would therefore be a tube of solid metal.
Sharlin 12y ago
Without some currently-nonexisting 3D technology, a 2D display trivially can't give you a view remotely similar to what a window offers, so you'd just see a flat wall with pixels in it.
- JamesArgo 12y ago
  With head tracking it can look quite good. Though that only works for one person.

DigitalSea 12y ago

Seems to me a saving of 0.75% in fuel is hardly worth striking fear into the hearts of nervous travellers like me. I am nervous enough as it is. At least currently I can choose not to look out the window, but being in a plane that uses HD panels that look like you can see through the plane will cause me to have a panic attack. Somewhat cool idea, but I can not see this ever being a thing on this scale. Panels will introduce new challenges like providing adequate power and what about the cost of replacing them? How often do airplane windows need to be replaced in comparison to an OLED screen? And then there are the security implications. Have you ever wondered why you are asked to raise the window shade for takeoff and landing? It is part procedure and part security. It allows on the ground personnel to assess a dangerous situation or see into the plane for other reasons. My hands are sweating just thinking about it.

nether 12y ago
>My hands are sweating just thinking about it. You have a phobia of flying. The solution isn't aircraft manufacturers accommodating that, but you seeking the right mental health services to treat your mental illness.
- Gracana 12y ago
  I would love a glass plane, but I don't think it would take a flying "phobia" to be uncomfortable with this. Besides, if you're trying to get more people to fly in your planes, telling would-be customers that they need psychiatric counseling to overcome their anxiety probably isn't the best approach.
- hrktb 12y ago
  I think more people have some level of this phobia that one would expect. Also people have a trust problem regarding airplanes. Not the "will it crash" kind of distrust, but more a diffuse and generic feeling coming from lost baggages, delayed flights, overbooking, nickel and diming, bland food and so on. The experience is genuinely awful for most travellers. Adding things to fret about (i.e. the scenery projection is BSOD for the whole flight, we don't know if we landed or not, etc) is just asking for troubles.
- DigitalSea 12y ago
  I have a phobia of flying, but I do not have a mental illness. That is a little rough. The rudeness was uncalled for there, Nether. Please be a bit more respectful next time, thanks. In-fact, I am currently in Seattle and travelled from Australia, 13 hours on a plane to LA and then 2.5 hours on a plane from LA to Seattle (with rough turbulence). A few months ago I travelled from Australia to San Francisco on a 13.5 hour plane ride, on the way back it was close to 15 hours. Last Christmas I took about 9 plane rides, connecting flights and a couple long distance flights. Australia to South Korea, South Korea to London, London to Paris, Paris to Rome, Rome to Poland, Poland to Germany , Germany back to London and then London back to South Korea, and South Korea back to Australia. The reason I can fly even though I have a fear of flying is because I can choose to not see outside. A plane of panelled walls that makes it appear see through would not only freak me out, but what about others with actual mental illnesses? I think it is a foolish idea. I know people who are not afraid of flying who would be freaked out by this.

smiler 12y ago

Considering that people like to sleep on planes and the flight attendants / cabin crew will get people to close the blinds / dim the cabin lights as quickly as they can, this will never take off.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

They should add an app for tablets and mobile phones to watch multiple cameras from outside.

noir_lord 12y ago
Occulus Rift slaved to multiple camera's would make the entire plane "vanish" (much like current military systems allow pilots to look "through" the plane). Now that I would pay for :)
brc 12y ago
Some airlines already do have multiple camera feeds from out side the plane, which you can watch as a channel on the inflight video. I've seen ones which point towards the front wheel which are very cool to watch on takeoff/landing.

Ankaios 12y ago

I wonder if they even tested it out at small scale yet. Screens will give the wrong parallax–it won't look like the view out a window. (It might be fine for a view displayed on a distant forward bulkhead or maybe even on seat backs, but the large views on walls they portrayed would look quite odd.) Also, even if they got it to work decently, I wonder how long it would take for the screens to be covered by ads or sitcom reruns.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

femto 12y ago

Who gets to control the "window"? Digitised systems are amenable to networking, which increases the number of options for who or what controls them. The answer is increasingly "not the user", or a gilded cage which gives the impression of user control. As it is, a manual window provides the passenger with some control of their environment. If the airline seizes control of the window, won't this feed into a feeling of lack of control and increased anxiety in passengers?

saryant 12y ago
> As it is, a manual window provides the passenger with some control of their environment. If the airline seizes control of the window, won't this feed into a feeling of lack of control and increased anxiety in passengers? The 787 already allows this. Flight attendants can change the window "shades" of the entire plane from a single control.
benologist 12y ago
This doesn't really add up, except on small planes most of the passengers have no proximity or access to windows at all and the few with windows can be overruled at any time by a steward.

brc 12y ago

I love staring out plane windows. On a flight over interesting areas, I can spend a lot of time watching the ground scroll past. I love watching sunrises and sunsets, and observing different cloud patterns. Anything that reduced that experience would be bad, if you ask me. Plus, as has already been mentioned, they are an important security measure for passenger flights, especially in emergency situations. That's why they ask you to lift the blinds for takeoff/landing. Fire crews are able to see inside the plane and look for smoke/flames/trapped people.

nnain 12y ago

But this is not a new news! I've been hearing about such 'concept' ideas by aircraft manufacturers for months, if not for years now. What I take issue with is the wording of the sub-heading of this story, "UK developer working on replacing heavy aircraft windows with uber-light smartscreen panels to cut fuel consumption and slash air fares". How is the inception of this idea related to some artist/developer sitting in UK? With all due credit to the UK peoples for contribution to the field of engineering, this sub-heading is a mis-representation of facts and it seems like theguardian is simply trying to push some sort of agenda to the rest of the world.

billforsternz 12y ago
It's not at all clear to me what your objection is. You don't like that the developer is in the UK ? Doesn't seem very rational. You think there are lots of development teams working on this, not just one in the UK ? Okay but the article is about the one in the UK.
- nnain 12y ago
  The article tends to suggest as if some uber-cool team mentioned in this article came up with this idea; while that is clearly not the case. It's media coverage for some random company without any attempt to identify who started this first.
  - billforsternz 12y ago
    Thanks, makes more sense now.

joosters 12y ago

Just wait until you're sitting on a ten hour flight next to one of those screens. How many hours of advertising do you reckon it'll broadcast to you?

drhodes 12y ago
btw, adblocker-AR for the occulus reality browser blocks those.

stavrianos 12y ago

Why do we need the screens? If window weight is a problem, why not just remove them and be done.

rogerbinns 12y ago
Note that windows do serve an important safety function in the event of a crash. They allow assessing the conditions outside before opening doors, for example so that passengers don't try to evacuate into a fire. They also allow light inside, which is another reason why window shades are required to be up during takeoff and landing. Stats including phase of flight http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

billforsternz 12y ago

All of the top level comments in this thread dismiss this (intriguing) idea. What is it about the hacker community that makes us so quick to find fault with new ideas? My guess: We are people who are struggling with difficult problems all day, so the first thing we do is spot potential problems.

colechristensen 12y ago
It is, plainly, a fairly stupid gimmick. Hackers, engineers, and those of like mind should (and do) think about things honestly, not positively. Nearly every breakthrough you read about in the news is simply bunk. If you didn't have this attitude, you'd be fairly disappointed because dozens of times every year cancer is cured, batteries increase capacity by 50%, cheap fusion is almost here, somebody's figured out a free-energy machine... on and on and on. The world is full of scams, gimmicks, and overexcited news outlets (and self promoting individuals) touting breakthroughs in every field. If you get excited about each one you start to look foolish really quickly. Some truly exciting things _do_ happen from time to time, but we're pessimistic (nay, realistic) about so many things because that's just how the world is.
- billforsternz 12y ago
  I agree that healthy skepticism is sensible, but it's easy to let that drift into a "things are going to stay pretty much as they are" bias. Things aren't, not in the medium to long term. Yet I perceive evidence of that bias on Hacker News. In this particular case, I'd judge some disruption in this area is at least plausible. Adding windows is really difficult from a material science perspective, it creates structural weaknesses that must be compensated for, and making sure those windows never blow out to some 9 sigma safety threshold must be a nightmare. In short the windows impose enormous complications and costs. Last week I flew in an Emirates A380, equipped with a variety of outboard cameras. I got by far the most interesting and beautiful views I've ever seen from an airliner, via both a big screen and the seatback screen. Not by peering out a tiny, awkwardly angled window. It's not implausible to me that this might signal a possible trend for future development.

hereonbusiness 12y ago

A big problem with OLED displays is the lifespan of the blue leds that are used (~10k hours to half brightness). When you're in the skies there's a lot of blue you need to show.