5 ms·

It seems clear that writing application for ANY mobile device will require jumping through some obscure corporation rules. Symbian is no exception to that, nor

by gtufano 17y ago

It seems clear that writing application for ANY mobile device will require jumping through some obscure corporation rules. Symbian is no exception to that, nor it is RIM. Maybe it is time to relax and accept it as one of the facts of life...

dejb 17y ago
This isn't the case for platforms that don't have a compulsory 'app store' model. I can write an app for Android or Windows Mobile (and probably many other platforms) and distribute it any way I see fit.
- natch 17y ago
  When you develop for these platforms, does your code have to be signed before you can give your app to other people to run? If yes, who controls access to the capability of issuing/revoking certificates?
  - tfincannon 17y ago
    Android apps can be self-signed and published in the Android Market.
  - dejb 17y ago
    Windows Mobile doesn't have/require signing. I'll wager most Symbian phones are like this as well.
AndrewDucker 17y ago
I have a Nokia S60. I can install apps by downloading a program file and copying it to the phone. Or I can install apps "over the air". In neither case does _anyone_ have to authorise me installing the application. Nor will I buy any phone that makes me jump through that hoop.
- lupin_sansei 17y ago
  Ditto Windows Mobile. Just find it and download and install it, either on your desktop machine or via the web on the phone/PDA.
- natch 17y ago
  Can you write apps yourself without using some Nokia code signing tool?
  - davidw 17y ago
    Certainly. Where signing comes into J2ME is that it pops up dialogs asking the user before the application does certain things if it's not signed, like "hey, this app is about to use some air time - is that ok?". With signing, you can get around that. On Blackberry, you have to pay 20$ to get code signing certificates, and without that you can still write basic apps, just not ones that access most of the 'interesting' features. Android lets you self-sign applications. All those platforms have free development tools, and in Android's case, I believe most of it is actually open source.
    - biafra 17y ago
      It's really annoying to find out what you cannot do with non-signed midlets. For example: 1. Your app cannot browse directories without the user being asked for permission on every change of directory. Try deveweloping a file browser with that restriction. 2. You cannot use a SocketConnection to connect to a remote host to port 8080 (only HttpConnection is allowed without beeing signed). Try developing an http-proxy with that restriction, when you want to forward every connection to another proxy on port 8080. And the Problem with being signed is that you have to have about 5 different certs on your key to be accepted on any phone by any manufacturer on any carrier. Those certificates are not free. They cost about 300$/year each. This was really annoying. I am so glad I do not have to do this on Android.
      - davidw 17y ago
        Yeah, J2ME is not perfect, but at least you can do something with it. The certificate prices are definitely way too high. And yes, Android is by far the best so far.
nfnaaron 17y ago
Like JWZ, I've been a happy user of Palm products and (importantly) their un-corralled app ecosystem, since before Palms were phones. I have a Centro because I had a Treo because I had a palm pilot, AND because the app ecosystem that my Centro lives in is the same un-corralled ecosystem that it's been for years. The ecosystem is an essential part of what the product is to me. The apparent desire of Palm to embrace and confine Palm's once open ecosystem means that the Pre, which I had been looking forward to as another shiny Palm device, is now for me just another piece of noise like the iPhone. As a customer I'm not interested in a closed ecosystem, and I'm beginning to realize that in the end the thing in my pocket is just a phone and I can get a really cheap one (with text!) from Cricket. If I need a restaurant or movie somewhere, I can look it up before I get there, and I can listen to my own farts in the elevator without having to buy them from Steve Jobs or his counterpart at Palm. So Palm's task is to figure out whether they'll make enough money on apps to make up for lost phone sales from people like me. Because in the end, they have no responsibility to customers, employees or outside developers; their only responsibility is to shareholders. And if they decide to go with a closed system, then like Jean Kirkpatrick, I will wave fondly as they sail into the sunset, and look wistfully at the Palm devices in my sock drawer.
theBobMcCormick 17y ago
As far as I can tell, there's no obscure corporate rules required to put an Android app in the Android Market. Also Android users don't have to jailbreak" their phones to load apps directly without going through the Market/App Store.

by gtufano 17y ago

dejb 17y ago

This isn't the case for platforms that don't have a compulsory 'app store' model. I can write an app for Android or Windows Mobile (and probably many other platforms) and distribute it any way I see fit.

natch 17y ago
When you develop for these platforms, does your code have to be signed before you can give your app to other people to run? If yes, who controls access to the capability of issuing/revoking certificates?
- tfincannon 17y ago
  Android apps can be self-signed and published in the Android Market.
- dejb 17y ago
  Windows Mobile doesn't have/require signing. I'll wager most Symbian phones are like this as well.

AndrewDucker 17y ago

I have a Nokia S60. I can install apps by downloading a program file and copying it to the phone. Or I can install apps "over the air". In neither case does _anyone_ have to authorise me installing the application. Nor will I buy any phone that makes me jump through that hoop.

lupin_sansei 17y ago
Ditto Windows Mobile. Just find it and download and install it, either on your desktop machine or via the web on the phone/PDA.
natch 17y ago
Can you write apps yourself without using some Nokia code signing tool?
- davidw 17y ago
  Certainly. Where signing comes into J2ME is that it pops up dialogs asking the user before the application does certain things if it's not signed, like "hey, this app is about to use some air time - is that ok?". With signing, you can get around that. On Blackberry, you have to pay 20$ to get code signing certificates, and without that you can still write basic apps, just not ones that access most of the 'interesting' features. Android lets you self-sign applications. All those platforms have free development tools, and in Android's case, I believe most of it is actually open source.
  - biafra 17y ago
    It's really annoying to find out what you cannot do with non-signed midlets. For example: 1. Your app cannot browse directories without the user being asked for permission on every change of directory. Try deveweloping a file browser with that restriction. 2. You cannot use a SocketConnection to connect to a remote host to port 8080 (only HttpConnection is allowed without beeing signed). Try developing an http-proxy with that restriction, when you want to forward every connection to another proxy on port 8080. And the Problem with being signed is that you have to have about 5 different certs on your key to be accepted on any phone by any manufacturer on any carrier. Those certificates are not free. They cost about 300$/year each. This was really annoying. I am so glad I do not have to do this on Android.
    - davidw 17y ago
      Yeah, J2ME is not perfect, but at least you can do something with it. The certificate prices are definitely way too high. And yes, Android is by far the best so far.

nfnaaron 17y ago

Like JWZ, I've been a happy user of Palm products and (importantly) their un-corralled app ecosystem, since before Palms were phones. I have a Centro because I had a Treo because I had a palm pilot, AND because the app ecosystem that my Centro lives in is the same un-corralled ecosystem that it's been for years. The ecosystem is an essential part of what the product is to me. The apparent desire of Palm to embrace and confine Palm's once open ecosystem means that the Pre, which I had been looking forward to as another shiny Palm device, is now for me just another piece of noise like the iPhone. As a customer I'm not interested in a closed ecosystem, and I'm beginning to realize that in the end the thing in my pocket is just a phone and I can get a really cheap one (with text!) from Cricket. If I need a restaurant or movie somewhere, I can look it up before I get there, and I can listen to my own farts in the elevator without having to buy them from Steve Jobs or his counterpart at Palm. So Palm's task is to figure out whether they'll make enough money on apps to make up for lost phone sales from people like me. Because in the end, they have no responsibility to customers, employees or outside developers; their only responsibility is to shareholders. And if they decide to go with a closed system, then like Jean Kirkpatrick, I will wave fondly as they sail into the sunset, and look wistfully at the Palm devices in my sock drawer.

theBobMcCormick 17y ago

As far as I can tell, there's no obscure corporate rules required to put an Android app in the Android Market. Also Android users don't have to jailbreak" their phones to load apps directly without going through the Market/App Store.