3 ms·

This seems to miss an explanation for why the marketing was directed at boys in the first place.

by 3rd3 12y ago

kasey_junk 12y ago
The segment mentions that most "tool toys" are marketed at boys. Specifically mentioned Tonka Trucks but think plastic saws, hammers, etc. They couldn't find any data one way or another about if that marketing made sense.
- bhaumik 12y ago
  My younger sister would've been more likely to enter tech if there was less barbie and more this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIGyVa5Xftw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIGyVa5Xftw
spion 12y ago
My take on that missing piece: once computers went personal / homebrew / RadioShack they switched categories. The new category was "tinkering with electronics", which has a long established cultural perception of being a male activity (and those personal computers were therefore marketed to males)
- 3rd3 12y ago
  But why is tinkering almost exclusively for men?
  - spion 12y ago
    That, I don't know. We'd probably need to go much further back to find an answer.
  - aragot 12y ago
    I know I'll get banned and cursed for years for that but here you go: Oh stop it, those are gender differences and girls also enjoy their differences, even if they're unfortunately imprinted by culture. They're untouchable, they are given what they ask (which is: often dolls), they're social. And the few that are in IT, they don't show up at the Java User Group, even if it's their job, even if it's free, even if it's at the same time as for boys. They do show up more often at higher-class networking parties where they may make connections with product managers and be promoted, rather than stay programmers like us for a bit longer. Of course there will be counter-examples, but I see girls in IT getting promoted MUCH faster than boys. In my 14-people office? 4 women-project-managers, 1 woman-architect (who doesn't know GIT), 1 female programmer (with 2 years of experience) and 8 male programmers. Yes, I'm making this observation about my team to imply that women have better jobs, sooner than boys, and it does imply that males don't get promoted as easily as women, at least in the world around me, and I'm saying an IT career is an excellent path for a girl. Before anyone says "Women get promoted quicker because they're just better at their job", I'd note they turn over this exact argument when it's directed to boys, by suggesting they didn't get the education, incentive, support or opportunity. It's not about anyone being better. It's about how we reach fairness. I do see that some of the world is different for girls, but unfairness is reported more often than advantages. Edit: "Why are there less girls at the JUG, is it because they're uncomfortable with 95% men?" > Or that they aren't involved much and reserve their evening time for their social life. The only way to be sure would be to ask them, and they'll probably remark they'll be promoted whether or not they attend the JUG, if you've followed the story of my team.
    - 3rd3 12y ago
      It seems to me that you are considering only symptoms of more underlying driving forces here. For example: Why is it that they don't show up at the Java User Group? Maybe they feel uncomfortable in a room with 95% men? Then you would have to explain why there are 95% men in that room in the first place. Women probably get promoted relatively earlier for reasons like token women and the fact that they less commonly have computer experience since early on.
aragot 12y ago
... which will hopefully explain why Lego markets the normal* range to boys. Or not. Of course there's the Lego Friends range targetting girls, but it is once again about houses, cooking, flowers and rainbow poneys, and not at all as educative as Lego Technics. *Such as the Lego City and Lego Creator ranges which must be the legos we encounter the most.
Pxtl 12y ago
Seems fairly self-evident - personal computers grew out of the electronic hobbyist industry. The first home PCs were kits for Radio Shack geeks. The PC market was firmly established as a split-off from the electronics-geek market until the early '90s or so.
tambourmajor 12y ago
The best explanation I've come across so far is Roy Baumeister's Is There Anything Good About Men? [0], which explains gender determinisms by regarding the evolutionary history of our species. The article was already posted several times on HN [1]. [0]: http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm [1]: http://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/forever/prefix/0/Is%20There%20Anything%20Good%20About%20Men%3F http://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/forever/prefix/0/Is%20There%2...

This seems to miss an explanation for why the marketing was directed at boys in the first place.

by 3rd3 12y ago

This seems to miss an explanation for why the marketing was directed at boys in the first place.

The segment mentions that most "tool toys" are marketed at boys. Specifically mentioned Tonka Trucks but think plastic saws, hammers, etc. They couldn't find any data one way or another about if that marketing made sense.

bhaumik 12y ago
My younger sister would've been more likely to enter tech if there was less barbie and more this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIGyVa5Xftw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIGyVa5Xftw

spion 12y ago

My take on that missing piece: once computers went personal / homebrew / RadioShack they switched categories. The new category was "tinkering with electronics", which has a long established cultural perception of being a male activity (and those personal computers were therefore marketed to males)

3rd3 12y ago
But why is tinkering almost exclusively for men?
- spion 12y ago
  That, I don't know. We'd probably need to go much further back to find an answer.
- aragot 12y ago
  I know I'll get banned and cursed for years for that but here you go: Oh stop it, those are gender differences and girls also enjoy their differences, even if they're unfortunately imprinted by culture. They're untouchable, they are given what they ask (which is: often dolls), they're social. And the few that are in IT, they don't show up at the Java User Group, even if it's their job, even if it's free, even if it's at the same time as for boys. They do show up more often at higher-class networking parties where they may make connections with product managers and be promoted, rather than stay programmers like us for a bit longer. Of course there will be counter-examples, but I see girls in IT getting promoted MUCH faster than boys. In my 14-people office? 4 women-project-managers, 1 woman-architect (who doesn't know GIT), 1 female programmer (with 2 years of experience) and 8 male programmers. Yes, I'm making this observation about my team to imply that women have better jobs, sooner than boys, and it does imply that males don't get promoted as easily as women, at least in the world around me, and I'm saying an IT career is an excellent path for a girl. Before anyone says "Women get promoted quicker because they're just better at their job", I'd note they turn over this exact argument when it's directed to boys, by suggesting they didn't get the education, incentive, support or opportunity. It's not about anyone being better. It's about how we reach fairness. I do see that some of the world is different for girls, but unfairness is reported more often than advantages. Edit: "Why are there less girls at the JUG, is it because they're uncomfortable with 95% men?" > Or that they aren't involved much and reserve their evening time for their social life. The only way to be sure would be to ask them, and they'll probably remark they'll be promoted whether or not they attend the JUG, if you've followed the story of my team.
  - 3rd3 12y ago
    It seems to me that you are considering only symptoms of more underlying driving forces here. For example: Why is it that they don't show up at the Java User Group? Maybe they feel uncomfortable in a room with 95% men? Then you would have to explain why there are 95% men in that room in the first place. Women probably get promoted relatively earlier for reasons like token women and the fact that they less commonly have computer experience since early on.

aragot 12y ago

... which will hopefully explain why Lego markets the normal* range to boys. Or not. Of course there's the Lego Friends range targetting girls, but it is once again about houses, cooking, flowers and rainbow poneys, and not at all as educative as Lego Technics. *Such as the Lego City and Lego Creator ranges which must be the legos we encounter the most.

Pxtl 12y ago

Seems fairly self-evident - personal computers grew out of the electronic hobbyist industry. The first home PCs were kits for Radio Shack geeks. The PC market was firmly established as a split-off from the electronics-geek market until the early '90s or so.

tambourmajor 12y ago

The best explanation I've come across so far is Roy Baumeister's Is There Anything Good About Men? [0], which explains gender determinisms by regarding the evolutionary history of our species. The article was already posted several times on HN [1]. [0]: http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm http://denisdutton.com/baumeister.htm [1]: http://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/forever/prefix/0/Is%20There%20Anything%20Good%20About%20Men%3F http://hn.algolia.com/#!/story/forever/prefix/0/Is%20There%2...