13 ms·

India’s Downward Spiral

RealGeek 12y ago
In India, people are being arrested for voicing disagreement with politicians and influential people on social media. You could even be arrested for liking a Facebook post criticizing a politician. http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/19/indian-woman-arrested-over-facebook-like/ http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/19/indian-woman-arrested-ov...
- virtuabhi 12y ago
  Yes, this is true. We are definitely not near the US standard on the defense of free speech. But the case you mentioned is one of the small number of such cases (I remember one from the state of West Bengal). And in this case, the over eagerness of local authorities was criticized by both the government and public. As of now, I would place India somewhere between UK (with its defamation laws) and US (gold standard of free speech) on the free speech issue. I do hope that the government takes steps to make sure that local authorities do not have power to override the right of free speech. (Disclaimer: Indian citizen)
  - alephnil 12y ago
    It does not help that it is just a small number of cases, as even a small number of cases will have have a chilling effect on free speech. The "somewhere between UK and US" comment is theoretical and is about what the written law says. The way it is practised is clearly worse than both. You don't have to watch your back when you criticize a politician in the UK, and certainly not when you "like" someone doing that. Even if it was later criticized later on, it did happen, and I would guess it got no consequences for the people that prosecuted the two women.
  - lake99 12y ago
    I don't know how you could compare India to UK. If you seriously believe there are a "small number of such cases", I must conclude you're ignorant. In most developed countries people would be shocked if issues such as this [1] are seriously considered in court cases, instead of getting thrown out immediately for being frivolous. [1] http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kerala-student-life-in-jail-for-not-standing-during-national-anthem/1/394686.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kerala-student-life-in-ja...
  - skrebbel 12y ago
    I think it's absolutely nuts that you're being downvoted into oblivion. The fact that these crackdowns were criticized widely is a good contribution to the debate. It appears that there's people in this thread who downvote anyone who's from India and doesn't think things are as bad as suggested.
    - scrollaway 12y ago
      Or maybe people downvoting him don't think that saying the UK is worse than a country that jails people for liking facebook posts is a sensible addition to this conversation. YMMV.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - RealGeek 12y ago
      He is being downvoted because he is in a denial mode, not because he is from India. I am from India as well, I didn't get downvoted. Many Indians think this way: "Freedom of speech, it's not that bad in India. Modi will change everything." Shocking thing is that a lot of Indians also believe that these people deserve to be jailed for speaking against politicians. Even worse.. they are beaten by a mob and their house is ransacked.
- vithlani 12y ago
  but but but but....look!!! MARS!!! Dude MARS!!!! We are so technologically advanced that we made it to Mars!!! YAYAAYAYA https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364841
leephillips 12y ago
This is an unsurprising extension into the electronic realm of India's notoriously weak support of free expression. They were the first country to ban the Satanic Verses; its import, I believe, is still illegal there. Citizens are routinely persecuted under laws that literally prohibit hurting people's religious feelings (recently invoked against a researcher who exposed another fake Catholic miracle[0]). India is the most prominent example of a country with plenty of voting but no democracy. [0] http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2012/07/sanal-edamarukus-situation-worsens.html http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2012/07/sanal-edamarukus-situ...
- monsterix 12y ago
  > India is the most prominent example of a country with plenty of voting but no democracy. Second you on that one! I lived in various parts of rural India for a little over 12 years, and the deeper I went, the more I saw people there actively voting in droves. And the harder their life and generally poor state of affairs!
  - sharoonthomas 12y ago
    +1 sadly democracy in India only has the voting part implemented fairly well. It's a monarch until the next election. Even the voting is neck deep in corruption [1] [1] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/cash-for-votes-cases-against-50-dmk-men/article5390763.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/cash-for-vo...
    - bipin-nag 12y ago
      What do you mean its a monarch until next election. Head of state is often elected for the term period. Also it maybe one of the cases reported, it doesn't imply voting is entirely corrupt.
      - bipin-nag 12y ago
        Will the downvoter exercise his freedom of expression to tell me what is wrong with my comment above.
skbohra123 12y ago
Article is from 2012, can someone please edit the title to mention that?
- bipin-nag 12y ago
  Also downward spiral is not very clear in context the article discusses.
pjg 12y ago
Idiotic indeed. Upvoting an article from 2012. In terms of content too it doesn't mention specific content that was targeted for removal. If any content is offensive to an individual e.g. nude pictures of celebrities they should have the right to ask them to be removed. No different for India - or any other country in the world. India has too much free speech if anything! Anybody can go to the steps of parliament or the presidential palace and blow their horn off on whatever issue they want.
- sharoonthomas 12y ago
  May be on TV and in person, but definitely not on the internet. Just a cartoon of a stupid politician could get you arrested [1]. [1] http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/asia/india-cartoonist/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/asia/india-cartoonis...
manish_gill 12y ago
Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be Here's the video's info: """India is currently implementing some of the scariest surveillance schemes in the world. This lecture will shed light on India's surveillance industry, its UID scheme which aims at the collection of all biometric data and on various controversial surveillance schemes, such as the Central Monitoring System (CMS). When it comes to surveillance, the most mainstream argument is that the majority of India's population lives below the poverty line and that surveillance is an elitist issue - and not a "real" issue which affects the masses. Given that the majority of India's population has mobile phones and that the Indian government is currently implementing the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which aims at intercepting all telecommunications (and Internet communications), surveillance does not appear to be an elitist issue. Given that the UID scheme aims at collecting the biometric data of all citizens residing in India and that most BPL cash programmes require UID registration, surveillance appears to be an issue which (unfortunately) affects the 1.2 billion people currently living in India. And this is to say the least. As part of the Privacy Project, the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) in Bangalore, India, is investigating surveillance within the country. The project is funded by Privacy International and aims to map out various forms of surveillance in India, ranging from drones, CCTV cameras and GPS tracking equipment to phone and Internet monitoring gear. This lecture aims to present the research that Maria Xynou has undertaken at the CIS so far, which includes data on the various surveillance technology companies operating in India and the type of spy gear they sell to Indian law enforcement agencies. This research also includes the presentation of India's various controversial surveillance schemes, with an emphasis on the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which unlawfully enables the interception of all telecommunications and Internet communications. India is currently implementing the world's largest biometric data collection and interception of communications schemes. The aim of this lecture is to present India's scary mass surveillance and to discuss its implications on the right to privacy and other human rights."""
- chunky1994 12y ago
  While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical articles etc. and I am unaware of the true extent of the CMS, the part about the UID program seems rather sensationalist and fear-mongering, since the primary aim of the UID program is the ability to identify the citizens of India similar to the US social security number system. The reason we need this biomertic data would be to ascertain the identity of over a billion people where unique names, places of birth and the existence of birth certificates aren't the norm, not in order to constantly police the populace. If you could make more explicit the problems with gathering biometric data of citizens, (which shouldn't be used for security purposes anyway) then I'm sure I would get a better understanding of your position.
cconcepts 12y ago
As someone living in India, I have considered how to set up a discussion board (like HN) that would be easy to use for users but also easy to be moderated of junk (like HN is) but still be effectively anonymous. It would allow discussion on such topics without fear of reprisal. With my lack of coding skills would this even be possible?
- allenbrunson 12y ago
  http://hackerstreet.in http://hackerstreet.in
  - mqsiuser 12y ago
    wow... was already on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4838206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4838206
- mqsiuser 12y ago
  > With my lack of coding skills would this even be possible? NO! (it is only possible WITH the required skills!)
  - cconcepts 12y ago
    My original was a poorly structured question - I should have asked if there was a specifically "anonomisable" discussion platform - something along the lines of phpBB. Something that could be setup to discuss free speech issues in restricted countries while keeping the contributors safe....? Would something like phpBB be safe for this kind of thing?
- chc 12y ago
  The primary challenge in creating a successful community like Hacker News is generally not the software (there is lots of free software for running forums), but in actually gathering and cultivating the community of people.
- cconcepts 12y ago
  Should I be concerned that my https with https://news.ycombinator.com https://news.ycombinator.com started wigging out after I posted the original question? Chrome wouldn't load it due to safety concerns
tn13 12y ago
One of the biggest difference between US and India is the constitution. Indian constitution does not give freedom of speech to its people. So government can pass all sort of laws. The 1st amendment to US constitution gives people freedom of speech and ensures that government can not pass any laws against it. On the other hand all the "rights" that Indian constitution gives are subject to other government approvals which means you can have Right X to the extent that other existing laws allow. Despite that several of laws except the IT laws are pretty good and time tested. IT law however is horrible and puts a prohibitive cost on various IT businesses. Indian classified company Quikr (like CraigList) has hired 200 people just to screen each and every post to make sure it is not "offensive".
- thepoet 12y ago
  Actually Indian constitution does give Freedom of Speech http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#In... but agree there are some restrictions which I assume are valid and are there for other countries too. There are problems enforcing or protecting these rights when you are up against corrupt politicians and organizations.
  - tn13 12y ago
    There is a big technical difference between Indian Constitution's interpretation of right and say that of American constitution. When it comes to US constitution, the 1st amendment is the stricter condition that each and every other law should meet. Any law passed that is not consistent with 1st amendment thus becomes invalid. Opposite is the case with Indian constitution. All the rights given by Indian constitution are totally subject to other laws passed by Indian government. Which means "freedom of expression" is a right as long as no other law prevents it. So basically government can deny you that right any time and in any case it wants. There are total 8 grounds on which a government can pass a law to further lower the freedom of speech. These 8 grounds cover almost every possible case.
    - Nano2rad 12y ago
pycassa 12y ago
Also India ranks, 140 on world press freedom index 2014, if you move 7 places ahead you will be in Putin land. It became worse in the last 10 years, 120 to 140. http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php
- known 12y ago
  Decline of the West. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_West#Democracy.2C_media.2C_and_money https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_West#Democrac...
enupten 12y ago
If Modi does an Indira (instead of a Shastri), India is doomed.
bveedu 12y ago
This is a FEBRUARY 8, 2012 article .Why is it in spotlight now?
- rangadas 12y ago
  Anti-Indian propaganda.
bveedu 12y ago
This is a FEBRUARY 8, 2012 articles. I couldn't understand why is it in spotlight now?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- abhishekdesai 12y ago
  Same here.
  - shaan7 12y ago
    because the problem still exists? ooh no wait, we Indians should just forget about it and continue being blind idiots.
- rangadas 12y ago
  Anti-India propaganda, that's all.
SteventM8 12y ago
no wonder why google don't even shows me that It needs to store cookies when you visit its Indian version of the search engine .
- rangadas 12y ago
  Do you even know that stupid cookie law is only specific to EU?
anushprem 12y ago
Did anybody noticed that this article is from 2 years ago, and a lot has changed in 2 years including a completely new government??
- shaan7 12y ago
  you mean how ICMS continues to operate? How section 66A of the "IT Act" is still valid and you can be sent to jail for writing anything "offensive" on any electronic media? Nope, nothing has changed, and while everyone had high hopes for the new govt, it will be foolhardy for any government to simply let go of such easy censorship on the public. In India its okay to burn a bus in `protest', but not post a facebook comment to criticize some politician.
slaxman 12y ago
A couple of points. 1. This is old (2012). There was a major government change in May 2014. The earlier government censored a lot of stuff. Mainly because their performance was below average and they did not want people talking about it. 2. The new government (led by Prime Minister Modi) is very oriented. (Checkout the central attendance system implemented by them in a couple of months: http://attendance.gov.in/ http://attendance.gov.in/). They have been pushing for broadband internet connectivity in villages. IMHO This is not as applicable today as it was 2 years ago. My $0.02
- known 12y ago
  "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." --Oscar http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Cant-disclose-names-of-foreign-account-holders-Modi-govt-tells-SC/articleshow/44846119.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Cant-disclo... http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Govt-not-reluctant-to-reveal-names-Arun-Jaitley-says/articleshow/44855638.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Govt-not-re...
transfire 12y ago
One day there will be a global Internet that will not be censorable.
imaginenore 12y ago
Banning "offensive" materials was a huge mistake that will haunt them for decades. Why? Because anything can be offensive. Bacon article? A Muslim gets offended. Computer article? A Luddite is offended. Photos of art? A blind man is offended. That rabbit hole is infinitely deep. Oops I just offended rabbit lovers.
jangid 12y ago
This is an old article dated early 2012. The current govt is very responsive to citizens.
- shaan7 12y ago
  _LOL_
dharmach 12y ago
- Government's support to freedom of expression depends considerably on availability of resources. If enough resources are unavailable, government has to give priority to law and order instead of freedom of speech. - Surveillance is bad but depending on country's internal and external security situation, it may be a necessary evil. - Removing content offensive to politicians is unacceptable.
- Nano2rad 12y ago
  US constitution was created before it became rich. Same lack of resources argument is used for not providing healthcare also.
priteshjain 12y ago
Why is so old article trending?
esya 12y ago
This is from 2012 as others pointed, but also if you go to Google's transparency report now, there is nothing after 2012 for India. Not sure why this is trending.
anuraj 12y ago
India is a nanny state trying to save its gullible illiterate masses from cyber influences deemed bad in culture. It is not the cyber surveillance capabilities that is the problem (which is coarse anyway), but the condescending attitude of bureaucracy who can send people to jail without bail for a Facebook like or a retweet.
eskimo87 12y ago
these issues do not get noticed in India because for majority of Indians the attention to and addressing fundamental problems (food, shelter, health) are of utmost importance for time being.
known 12y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority rules India
known 12y ago
Poor people should NOT vote in elections. They're vulnerable to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud#Intimidation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud#Intimidation
known 12y ago
Patriotism in India is a favorite device of persons with something to sell. A true patriot honors all nations.

In India, people are being arrested for voicing disagreement with politicians and influential people on social media. You could even be arrested for liking a Facebook post criticizing a politician. http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/19/indian-woman-arrested-over-facebook-like/ http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/19/indian-woman-arrested-ov...

virtuabhi 12y ago
Yes, this is true. We are definitely not near the US standard on the defense of free speech. But the case you mentioned is one of the small number of such cases (I remember one from the state of West Bengal). And in this case, the over eagerness of local authorities was criticized by both the government and public. As of now, I would place India somewhere between UK (with its defamation laws) and US (gold standard of free speech) on the free speech issue. I do hope that the government takes steps to make sure that local authorities do not have power to override the right of free speech. (Disclaimer: Indian citizen)
- alephnil 12y ago
  It does not help that it is just a small number of cases, as even a small number of cases will have have a chilling effect on free speech. The "somewhere between UK and US" comment is theoretical and is about what the written law says. The way it is practised is clearly worse than both. You don't have to watch your back when you criticize a politician in the UK, and certainly not when you "like" someone doing that. Even if it was later criticized later on, it did happen, and I would guess it got no consequences for the people that prosecuted the two women.
- lake99 12y ago
  I don't know how you could compare India to UK. If you seriously believe there are a "small number of such cases", I must conclude you're ignorant. In most developed countries people would be shocked if issues such as this [1] are seriously considered in court cases, instead of getting thrown out immediately for being frivolous. [1] http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kerala-student-life-in-jail-for-not-standing-during-national-anthem/1/394686.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/kerala-student-life-in-ja...
- skrebbel 12y ago
  I think it's absolutely nuts that you're being downvoted into oblivion. The fact that these crackdowns were criticized widely is a good contribution to the debate. It appears that there's people in this thread who downvote anyone who's from India and doesn't think things are as bad as suggested.
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    Or maybe people downvoting him don't think that saying the UK is worse than a country that jails people for liking facebook posts is a sensible addition to this conversation. YMMV.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - RealGeek 12y ago
    He is being downvoted because he is in a denial mode, not because he is from India. I am from India as well, I didn't get downvoted. Many Indians think this way: "Freedom of speech, it's not that bad in India. Modi will change everything." Shocking thing is that a lot of Indians also believe that these people deserve to be jailed for speaking against politicians. Even worse.. they are beaten by a mob and their house is ransacked.
vithlani 12y ago
but but but but....look!!! MARS!!! Dude MARS!!!! We are so technologically advanced that we made it to Mars!!! YAYAAYAYA https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364841 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8364841

leephillips 12y ago

This is an unsurprising extension into the electronic realm of India's notoriously weak support of free expression. They were the first country to ban the Satanic Verses; its import, I believe, is still illegal there. Citizens are routinely persecuted under laws that literally prohibit hurting people's religious feelings (recently invoked against a researcher who exposed another fake Catholic miracle[0]). India is the most prominent example of a country with plenty of voting but no democracy. [0] http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2012/07/sanal-edamarukus-situation-worsens.html http://blog.newhumanist.org.uk/2012/07/sanal-edamarukus-situ...

monsterix 12y ago
> India is the most prominent example of a country with plenty of voting but no democracy. Second you on that one! I lived in various parts of rural India for a little over 12 years, and the deeper I went, the more I saw people there actively voting in droves. And the harder their life and generally poor state of affairs!
- sharoonthomas 12y ago
  +1 sadly democracy in India only has the voting part implemented fairly well. It's a monarch until the next election. Even the voting is neck deep in corruption [1] [1] http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/cash-for-votes-cases-against-50-dmk-men/article5390763.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/cash-for-vo...
  - bipin-nag 12y ago
    What do you mean its a monarch until next election. Head of state is often elected for the term period. Also it maybe one of the cases reported, it doesn't imply voting is entirely corrupt.
    - bipin-nag 12y ago
      Will the downvoter exercise his freedom of expression to tell me what is wrong with my comment above.

skbohra123 12y ago

Article is from 2012, can someone please edit the title to mention that?

bipin-nag 12y ago
Also downward spiral is not very clear in context the article discusses.

pjg 12y ago

Idiotic indeed. Upvoting an article from 2012. In terms of content too it doesn't mention specific content that was targeted for removal. If any content is offensive to an individual e.g. nude pictures of celebrities they should have the right to ask them to be removed. No different for India - or any other country in the world. India has too much free speech if anything! Anybody can go to the steps of parliament or the presidential palace and blow their horn off on whatever issue they want.

sharoonthomas 12y ago
May be on TV and in person, but definitely not on the internet. Just a cartoon of a stupid politician could get you arrested [1]. [1] http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/asia/india-cartoonist/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/asia/india-cartoonis...

manish_gill 12y ago

Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be Here's the video's info: """India is currently implementing some of the scariest surveillance schemes in the world. This lecture will shed light on India's surveillance industry, its UID scheme which aims at the collection of all biometric data and on various controversial surveillance schemes, such as the Central Monitoring System (CMS). When it comes to surveillance, the most mainstream argument is that the majority of India's population lives below the poverty line and that surveillance is an elitist issue - and not a "real" issue which affects the masses. Given that the majority of India's population has mobile phones and that the Indian government is currently implementing the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which aims at intercepting all telecommunications (and Internet communications), surveillance does not appear to be an elitist issue. Given that the UID scheme aims at collecting the biometric data of all citizens residing in India and that most BPL cash programmes require UID registration, surveillance appears to be an issue which (unfortunately) affects the 1.2 billion people currently living in India. And this is to say the least. As part of the Privacy Project, the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) in Bangalore, India, is investigating surveillance within the country. The project is funded by Privacy International and aims to map out various forms of surveillance in India, ranging from drones, CCTV cameras and GPS tracking equipment to phone and Internet monitoring gear. This lecture aims to present the research that Maria Xynou has undertaken at the CIS so far, which includes data on the various surveillance technology companies operating in India and the type of spy gear they sell to Indian law enforcement agencies. This research also includes the presentation of India's various controversial surveillance schemes, with an emphasis on the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which unlawfully enables the interception of all telecommunications and Internet communications. India is currently implementing the world's largest biometric data collection and interception of communications schemes. The aim of this lecture is to present India's scary mass surveillance and to discuss its implications on the right to privacy and other human rights."""

chunky1994 12y ago
While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical articles etc. and I am unaware of the true extent of the CMS, the part about the UID program seems rather sensationalist and fear-mongering, since the primary aim of the UID program is the ability to identify the citizens of India similar to the US social security number system. The reason we need this biomertic data would be to ascertain the identity of over a billion people where unique names, places of birth and the existence of birth certificates aren't the norm, not in order to constantly police the populace. If you could make more explicit the problems with gathering biometric data of citizens, (which shouldn't be used for security purposes anyway) then I'm sure I would get a better understanding of your position.

cconcepts 12y ago

As someone living in India, I have considered how to set up a discussion board (like HN) that would be easy to use for users but also easy to be moderated of junk (like HN is) but still be effectively anonymous. It would allow discussion on such topics without fear of reprisal. With my lack of coding skills would this even be possible?

allenbrunson 12y ago
http://hackerstreet.in http://hackerstreet.in
- mqsiuser 12y ago
  wow... was already on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4838206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4838206
mqsiuser 12y ago
> With my lack of coding skills would this even be possible? NO! (it is only possible WITH the required skills!)
- cconcepts 12y ago
  My original was a poorly structured question - I should have asked if there was a specifically "anonomisable" discussion platform - something along the lines of phpBB. Something that could be setup to discuss free speech issues in restricted countries while keeping the contributors safe....? Would something like phpBB be safe for this kind of thing?
chc 12y ago
The primary challenge in creating a successful community like Hacker News is generally not the software (there is lots of free software for running forums), but in actually gathering and cultivating the community of people.
cconcepts 12y ago
Should I be concerned that my https with https://news.ycombinator.com https://news.ycombinator.com started wigging out after I posted the original question? Chrome wouldn't load it due to safety concerns

tn13 12y ago

One of the biggest difference between US and India is the constitution. Indian constitution does not give freedom of speech to its people. So government can pass all sort of laws. The 1st amendment to US constitution gives people freedom of speech and ensures that government can not pass any laws against it. On the other hand all the "rights" that Indian constitution gives are subject to other government approvals which means you can have Right X to the extent that other existing laws allow. Despite that several of laws except the IT laws are pretty good and time tested. IT law however is horrible and puts a prohibitive cost on various IT businesses. Indian classified company Quikr (like CraigList) has hired 200 people just to screen each and every post to make sure it is not "offensive".

thepoet 12y ago
Actually Indian constitution does give Freedom of Speech http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#In... but agree there are some restrictions which I assume are valid and are there for other countries too. There are problems enforcing or protecting these rights when you are up against corrupt politicians and organizations.
- tn13 12y ago
  There is a big technical difference between Indian Constitution's interpretation of right and say that of American constitution. When it comes to US constitution, the 1st amendment is the stricter condition that each and every other law should meet. Any law passed that is not consistent with 1st amendment thus becomes invalid. Opposite is the case with Indian constitution. All the rights given by Indian constitution are totally subject to other laws passed by Indian government. Which means "freedom of expression" is a right as long as no other law prevents it. So basically government can deny you that right any time and in any case it wants. There are total 8 grounds on which a government can pass a law to further lower the freedom of speech. These 8 grounds cover almost every possible case.
  - Nano2rad 12y ago

pycassa 12y ago

Also India ranks, 140 on world press freedom index 2014, if you move 7 places ahead you will be in Putin land. It became worse in the last 10 years, 120 to 140. http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

known 12y ago
Decline of the West. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_West#Democracy.2C_media.2C_and_money https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_West#Democrac...

enupten 12y ago

If Modi does an Indira (instead of a Shastri), India is doomed.

bveedu 12y ago

This is a FEBRUARY 8, 2012 article .Why is it in spotlight now?

rangadas 12y ago
Anti-Indian propaganda.

bveedu 12y ago

This is a FEBRUARY 8, 2012 articles. I couldn't understand why is it in spotlight now?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
abhishekdesai 12y ago
Same here.
- shaan7 12y ago
  because the problem still exists? ooh no wait, we Indians should just forget about it and continue being blind idiots.
rangadas 12y ago
Anti-India propaganda, that's all.

SteventM8 12y ago

no wonder why google don't even shows me that It needs to store cookies when you visit its Indian version of the search engine .

rangadas 12y ago
Do you even know that stupid cookie law is only specific to EU?

anushprem 12y ago

Did anybody noticed that this article is from 2 years ago, and a lot has changed in 2 years including a completely new government??

shaan7 12y ago
you mean how ICMS continues to operate? How section 66A of the "IT Act" is still valid and you can be sent to jail for writing anything "offensive" on any electronic media? Nope, nothing has changed, and while everyone had high hopes for the new govt, it will be foolhardy for any government to simply let go of such easy censorship on the public. In India its okay to burn a bus in `protest', but not post a facebook comment to criticize some politician.

slaxman 12y ago

A couple of points. 1. This is old (2012). There was a major government change in May 2014. The earlier government censored a lot of stuff. Mainly because their performance was below average and they did not want people talking about it. 2. The new government (led by Prime Minister Modi) is very oriented. (Checkout the central attendance system implemented by them in a couple of months: http://attendance.gov.in/ http://attendance.gov.in/). They have been pushing for broadband internet connectivity in villages. IMHO This is not as applicable today as it was 2 years ago. My $0.02

known 12y ago
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." --Oscar http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Cant-disclose-names-of-foreign-account-holders-Modi-govt-tells-SC/articleshow/44846119.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Cant-disclo... http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Govt-not-reluctant-to-reveal-names-Arun-Jaitley-says/articleshow/44855638.cms http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Black-money-case-Govt-not-re...

transfire 12y ago

One day there will be a global Internet that will not be censorable.

imaginenore 12y ago

Banning "offensive" materials was a huge mistake that will haunt them for decades. Why? Because anything can be offensive. Bacon article? A Muslim gets offended. Computer article? A Luddite is offended. Photos of art? A blind man is offended. That rabbit hole is infinitely deep. Oops I just offended rabbit lovers.

jangid 12y ago

This is an old article dated early 2012. The current govt is very responsive to citizens.

shaan7 12y ago
_LOL_

dharmach 12y ago

- Government's support to freedom of expression depends considerably on availability of resources. If enough resources are unavailable, government has to give priority to law and order instead of freedom of speech. - Surveillance is bad but depending on country's internal and external security situation, it may be a necessary evil. - Removing content offensive to politicians is unacceptable.

Nano2rad 12y ago
US constitution was created before it became rich. Same lack of resources argument is used for not providing healthcare also.

priteshjain 12y ago

Why is so old article trending?

esya 12y ago

This is from 2012 as others pointed, but also if you go to Google's transparency report now, there is nothing after 2012 for India. Not sure why this is trending.

anuraj 12y ago

India is a nanny state trying to save its gullible illiterate masses from cyber influences deemed bad in culture. It is not the cyber surveillance capabilities that is the problem (which is coarse anyway), but the condescending attitude of bureaucracy who can send people to jail without bail for a Facebook like or a retweet.

eskimo87 12y ago

these issues do not get noticed in India because for majority of Indians the attention to and addressing fundamental problems (food, shelter, health) are of utmost importance for time being.

known 12y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_minority rules India

known 12y ago

Poor people should NOT vote in elections. They're vulnerable to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud#Intimidation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud#Intimidation

known 12y ago

Patriotism in India is a favorite device of persons with something to sell. A true patriot honors all nations.