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This is important also for our initially skeptical reaction to it. The fact that humans assumed that apes would never war shows the prevalence of the "noble sav
by api 12y ago
This is important also for our initially skeptical reaction to it. The fact that humans assumed that apes would never war shows the prevalence of the "noble savage" myth even among scientists.
The noble savage myth in turn is a modern (post-Renaissance) secularized version of "the fall" described in Genesis and other ancient religious myths. The idea is that God -- being good -- would never have intended nature to be full of violence and deception. In theology this is known as the problem of evil. Most Western religions solved the problem of evil by blaming ourselves -- we did it, and we inherited this sin, etc. Modern secular nature-worshippers (what I call "religious greens") have simply substituted nature for God and civilization or some other development for the fall-- it's a direct remapping of Judeo-Christian mythology.
"Uncorrupted" nature and pre-fall humans (if any exist, e.g. isolated tribes) must not have these characteristics according to the myth. If they are observed they must be a result of our "fallen" interference.
In reality nature is full of deception and warfare at all levels, and not just in predator-prey or parasite-host interactions but among members of the same species. This supports either an atheistic/naturalistic universe or a God whose nature is rather more complex than "God is good." If you want to keep theism, a polytheistic cosmology is also possible. Cultures who have a dualistic view of God or a polytheistic cosmos don't have monotheism's same sort of problem of evil.
This is also why I think suspension of value judgement is very important when studying nature, even human nature. Sometimes I gain the deepest insights into human behavior and culture when I try to look at things without making any value judgement.
- lappet 12y ago> The idea is that God -- being good -- would never have intended nature to be full of violence and deception That is interesting, I was not aware of it. It is kind of the opposite in Hindu philosophy. There is this idea of 'matsya nyana' which roughly translates to 'survival of the fittest' or 'law of the jungle' (it literally means bigger fish eats smaller fish) and the stories say that being civilized means that men must conquer this inherent desire for conquest and violence. When things go bad men behave like animals and destroy one another.
- gretful 12y agosame concept as applied to other human cultures: Aztecs, Incas, Native Americans, Africans - they're all considered 'at one with nature', superior to European culture, when in fact they were just as bad (and in some cases) worse than the culture that displaced or enslaved them. We've gone from one end of the spectrum to another w/ regard to our perceptions of 'other'.
- api 12y agoGood point. "Other" used to be intrinsically evil and in need of our enlightenment. Now it's intrinsically superior. Neither is true.