6 ms·

The big question that I'm left with after reading this article is: are there particular factors that played a role in causing this war, or does this kind of thi

by mercer 12y ago

The big question that I'm left with after reading this article is: are there particular factors that played a role in causing this war, or does this kind of thing just 'randomly' happen. Does anyone know if this has been researched to any degree, perhaps with other groups of chimpanzees or entirely different species? I imagine that observing these dynamics in a more 'primitive' creature could be enlightening to us...

tim333 12y ago
There has been considerable subsequent research. The war like behaviour appears common in Chimps but happens much less in Bonobos which are genetically very similar to Chimps. There's a NYT article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/science/lethal-violence-in-chimps-occurs-naturally-study-suggests.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/science/lethal-violence-in...
- mercer 12y ago
  Awesome! Thanks for the input.
- api 12y ago
  If I remember correctly (been a while since I studied this stuff), the line leading to homo sapiens diverged before the Chimpanzee/Bonobo divergence. I've read a few things to the effect that humans show both chimp-like and bonobo-like solutions to conflict depending on the context.
  - tim333 12y ago
    There was an interesting book about some of it, Demonic Males (http://www.amazon.com/Demonic-Males-Origins-Human-Violence/dp/B005K6DTVG http://www.amazon.com/Demonic-Males-Origins-Human-Violence/d...). It might be a bit dated now (1997).
simonh 12y ago
I think it just comes doen to natural selection. In an environemnt with limited resources necessary for survival, particularly food which approximately equates to territory, competition for those resources is competition for survival. This will select positively for the capacity to be aggressive. (Though there are of course other factiors that select for the capacity to be caring and generous.) The issue then is that once nature has selected individuals capable of aggression, there' no guarantee that agression will allways and only ever manifest in situations directly related to personal survival.
- smeyer 12y ago
  So why does this apply to chimps but not bonobos? Are bonobos in areas with less limited resources or naturally different territorial divisions? The argument seems a bit lacking without understanding the distinction (and I know very little about these areas).
  - simonh 12y ago
    From Wikiepdia: >It has been hypothesized that bonobos are able to live a more peaceful lifestyle in part because of an abundance of nutritious vegetation in their natural habitat, allowing them to travel and forage in large parties. So I suppose take away the need for competion for resources and the selective pressure for aggression reduces or dissapears.
boothead 12y ago
I seem to remember the trauma inherent in the environment being identified as a causal factor. I can't remember the details now, but I think some of the individual chimps involved has suffered some childhood trauma due to the recent civil war. Can anyone else remember reading anything similar? If I'm not mis-remembering, this is another similarity between humans and chimps.

by mercer 12y ago

tim333 12y ago

There has been considerable subsequent research. The war like behaviour appears common in Chimps but happens much less in Bonobos which are genetically very similar to Chimps. There's a NYT article here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/science/lethal-violence-in-chimps-occurs-naturally-study-suggests.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/science/lethal-violence-in...

mercer 12y ago
Awesome! Thanks for the input.
api 12y ago
If I remember correctly (been a while since I studied this stuff), the line leading to homo sapiens diverged before the Chimpanzee/Bonobo divergence. I've read a few things to the effect that humans show both chimp-like and bonobo-like solutions to conflict depending on the context.
- tim333 12y ago
  There was an interesting book about some of it, Demonic Males (http://www.amazon.com/Demonic-Males-Origins-Human-Violence/dp/B005K6DTVG http://www.amazon.com/Demonic-Males-Origins-Human-Violence/d...). It might be a bit dated now (1997).

simonh 12y ago

I think it just comes doen to natural selection. In an environemnt with limited resources necessary for survival, particularly food which approximately equates to territory, competition for those resources is competition for survival. This will select positively for the capacity to be aggressive. (Though there are of course other factiors that select for the capacity to be caring and generous.) The issue then is that once nature has selected individuals capable of aggression, there' no guarantee that agression will allways and only ever manifest in situations directly related to personal survival.

smeyer 12y ago
So why does this apply to chimps but not bonobos? Are bonobos in areas with less limited resources or naturally different territorial divisions? The argument seems a bit lacking without understanding the distinction (and I know very little about these areas).
- simonh 12y ago
  From Wikiepdia: >It has been hypothesized that bonobos are able to live a more peaceful lifestyle in part because of an abundance of nutritious vegetation in their natural habitat, allowing them to travel and forage in large parties. So I suppose take away the need for competion for resources and the selective pressure for aggression reduces or dissapears.

boothead 12y ago

I seem to remember the trauma inherent in the environment being identified as a causal factor. I can't remember the details now, but I think some of the individual chimps involved has suffered some childhood trauma due to the recent civil war. Can anyone else remember reading anything similar? If I'm not mis-remembering, this is another similarity between humans and chimps.