6 ms·

In the various laptops, soldered-on RAM is a trade-off for the increasing thinness of the machines. Whether it's worth it will depend on the individual's needs

In the various laptops, soldered-on RAM is a trade-off for the increasing thinness of the machines. Whether it's worth it will depend on the individual's needs. In this case, the Mac mini is the same size as the previous generation, which had had user-replaceable RAM. Soldering it on the RAM in this new generation is just a dick move on Apple's part. It's hard to think of a legitimate reason for them to do this except to make more money from you.

eropple 12y ago
Agreed. I'm willing to put up with soldered-on RAM and minimal expansion for my rMBP because I see benefits from it. I don't see any such benefits in this Mac. I can just build a Hackintosh and be done with it, and I think that's what I'll do next.
- LordIllidan 12y ago
  I'd like to buy a rMBP, but the non expandibility annoys me. I have mid 2012 MBP 4GB RAM, 512GB HDD, and I was able to gradually upgrade it to 16GB together with 960GB SSD. It is certainly heavier than the rMBP but it suits my needs perfectly. In comparison, the rMBP has a perfect display, but I will need to get the most expensive model. I'd also lose on ethernet support, and need to get an adapter. I am not sure why rMBP lacks an Ethernet port in any case, this is supposed to be a laptop for professionals. Sometimes my job requires me to have Ethernet access. I honestly don't care about making my devices thinner and thinner. My iPhone 4 is thin enough. My laptop may be heavy but it's more of a desktop replacement anyway.
  - sheetjs 12y ago
    I have not tried it, but I assume the Apple USB Ethernet Adapter also works with the rMBP: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A/apple-usb-ethernet-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A/apple-usb-ethern...
    - ropiku 12y ago
      That and also the Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapter works.
      - FireBeyond 12y ago
        If you lay your laptop flat on your desk. If you're using a stand, take care with your cable such that there's not adverse strain pulling down on the adapter. I'm just thankful that only cost me 2 TB-GigE adapters when I was using a Rain Design mStand with the fully specced out 15" rMBP from work (rather than killing the port itself).
    - LordIllidan 12y ago
      I know I can use an adapter, but it's one more thing to carry around, lose, or get stolen. It's an extra cost to the user, and one more device dangling off my laptop.
  - koralatov 12y ago
    > I honestly don't care about making my devices thinner > and thinner. My iPhone 4 is thin enough. My laptop may > be heavy but it's more of a desktop replacement anyway. It's the same for me. My 2010 MBP is my primary machine, and I'd much rather a thicker laptop with user-replaceable RAM and storage. Apple spent a lot of time building laptops that were ~1" thick and had these options, so I know that they can do it. They just don't want to do it any more; they'd rather we buy new laptops every ~3 years than gradually upgrade our current ones to last twice that time.
- hyperbovine 12y ago
  And your Hackintosh will crash, make noise and draw too much power. To an increasingly large segment of the market, these cons far outweigh the possibility of a RAM upgrade.
  - adamors 12y ago
    That depends on whether you buy specific hardware for a Hackintosh or try to force it on some existing parts you have laying around in the house. Building a Hackintosh has been hassle free for a good while now. I've been running mine since Lion (2011).
  - Adirael 12y ago
    It's not that bad as it was a few years ago. I updated mine today to Yosemite and it was painful but bearable. I bought my hardware with osx86 in mind, it doesn't give me much trouble. No crashes. Noise and power consumption are dependent on what hardware you pick. I was waiting for the new Minis but seeing them I think I'll just keep my i3, RAM, SDD and get a smaller form factor motherboard and keep using the hackintosh.
  - eropple 12y ago
    I've built multiple Hackintoshes. They don't crash if you've been smart about part purchases. One of my last two was passively cooled, and I don't care anymore about noise because the machine itself can live in a closet (cable drops outside). And sure, my last Hackintosh drew a lot of power. It was also an i7-875K running at 3.5GHz, which I couldn't get in anything except a $3K Mac Pro at the time. (Total BOM for that machine, which is still in use albeit as a Windows PC: $800.) But anyway, I don't care about the "increasingly large segment of the market". I care about me. So I don't know why you're fluttering about.
computerjunkie 12y ago
I agree. I was really looking forward to what apple would do with the Mac Mini as I wanted it to be my first apple purchase. To be fair,the update seems like a downgrade. Even on the keynote, the product seemed neglected. It looks like I am going look for small form factor cases and stick Linux on them and probably get a Mac book Pro when I save up enough money.
- turnip1979 12y ago
  Well .. we can vote with our dollars. I just kept my 2010 macbook and got my own ssd and 16GB of RAM. Also, keeping my old Mac Mini from around that time.
- cdr 12y ago
  Intel NUCs are really interesting small form factor PC kits - a nice medium between completely from scratch (which can be a real pain in SFF) and completely prebuilt. i3/i5 Broadwell NUCs are announced for early 2015.
  - singingfish 12y ago
    I've had a couple of Shuttle small form factors this year. Works really well with Linux Mint.
  - dragontamer 12y ago
    NUC sucks however. Its way too small. I think I prefer the slightly larger mini-PCs from Zotec. If I build from scratch, the AMD-based AM1 platforms are superb. $30 socketed miniITX motherboards and $20 chips are great.
gaving 12y ago
Even more hilarious is the sounds of these "tamper proof" screws on the bottom. I mean, why do they care so much?
- JohnBooty 12y ago
  I hate that move. It's possible that a lot of people were using them as servers, upgrading them, running them hard 24/7, and then getting free replacements via AppleCare? That's a pure guess.
prezjordan 12y ago
Well, it could be to fit more stuff inside, while keeping the overall size the same.
jrochkind1 12y ago
I'm sure it didn't hurt in Apple's decision-making that upgrading your RAM was the easiest way to postpone obsolescence.
bradleyland 12y ago
I've come to the unquestionable conclusion that Apple doesn't want customers inside their computers. Full stop. Apple views the personal computer as a device to be used for its serviceable life (until a major component fails), then discarded, recycled, and replaced with a new one. I'm not defending this stance, btw, just stating what I've observed. Our household recently experienced a HDD failure in an iMac purchased late 2010. At 4 years old, the HDD was due for a failure (based on my experience with spinning magnetic disks). No problem, I thought. I'm an experienced hacker; taking this thing apart will be no problem at all. I was right in that taking the iMac apart would be little challenge for me. Honestly, the iMac is a miracle of serviceability for such a compact computer. All of the connectors unsnapped as expected while using the correct tools. Nothing was terribly inaccessible, with the exception of the LCD driver cable. That connector terrifies me, but everything else was cake. What killed me was the HDD thermal monitoring system. Apple uses the internal HDD thermal sensing equipment. Ostensibly (and probably true), monitoring via SMART requires an interrupt, which momentarily halts HDD communication. I/O on a HDD is bad enough without these interruptions, so hats off to Apple for prioritizing performance. The down side of this is that there is no standard for the thermal sensor pins in the connector provided on the HDD. You have to 1) make sure to buy a HDD of the same make as the one you're replacing, and 2) cross your fingers that it isn't a WD HDD, which apparently went through a running change, which A) flipped the thermal sensing pins, and B) changed the connector subtly. For some context, have a look at this article: http://blog.macsales.com/19617-diagnosing-2009-2010-imac-fan-speed-issues-after-upgrading-the-main-hard-drive http://blog.macsales.com/19617-diagnosing-2009-2010-imac-fan... I experienced two challenges. First, my connector had a "nub" on one side, which fit in to a slot in the port on the OEM HDD. The new WD drive had no such slot. Second, my HDD temperature sensor cable had an 8-pin connector. In the article above, you can see that the connector is a 6-pin connector in an 8-pin hole. Because my connector was 8-pins, I couldn't simply flip it, because that shifted the cables by 1 column. I ended up hand filing the nub off the connector, then literally grinding and filing one column of the pins off the connector, turning it in to a 6-pin connector, so that I could flip it. The moral of the story is that Apple makes zero considerations for end-user serviceability. None whatsoever. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they intentionally make it difficult, just that when faced with any decision where the choices are A) benefit the design or profitability of the device in some way or B) retain end-user serviceability, factor B never even gets considered.
Shivetya 12y ago
the other dick move is requiring you to buy the top end mini before optioning to a SSD larger than 256g. Its one helluva up charge to go from the mid model to the top one and the only difference is a slightly faster processor; 300 bucks. Add in the cost to add a larger SSD and its just not remotely attractive
pjmlp 12y ago
I admire Apple systems a lot, but having grown up in a country where the average salary is 400€, I never managed to convince myself to buy their systems. Specially since I value technical features and flexibility to change hardware over design.

eropple 12y ago

Agreed. I'm willing to put up with soldered-on RAM and minimal expansion for my rMBP because I see benefits from it. I don't see any such benefits in this Mac. I can just build a Hackintosh and be done with it, and I think that's what I'll do next.

LordIllidan 12y ago
I'd like to buy a rMBP, but the non expandibility annoys me. I have mid 2012 MBP 4GB RAM, 512GB HDD, and I was able to gradually upgrade it to 16GB together with 960GB SSD. It is certainly heavier than the rMBP but it suits my needs perfectly. In comparison, the rMBP has a perfect display, but I will need to get the most expensive model. I'd also lose on ethernet support, and need to get an adapter. I am not sure why rMBP lacks an Ethernet port in any case, this is supposed to be a laptop for professionals. Sometimes my job requires me to have Ethernet access. I honestly don't care about making my devices thinner and thinner. My iPhone 4 is thin enough. My laptop may be heavy but it's more of a desktop replacement anyway.
- sheetjs 12y ago
  I have not tried it, but I assume the Apple USB Ethernet Adapter also works with the rMBP: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A/apple-usb-ethernet-adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC704ZM/A/apple-usb-ethern...
  - ropiku 12y ago
    That and also the Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapter works.
    - FireBeyond 12y ago
      If you lay your laptop flat on your desk. If you're using a stand, take care with your cable such that there's not adverse strain pulling down on the adapter. I'm just thankful that only cost me 2 TB-GigE adapters when I was using a Rain Design mStand with the fully specced out 15" rMBP from work (rather than killing the port itself).
  - LordIllidan 12y ago
    I know I can use an adapter, but it's one more thing to carry around, lose, or get stolen. It's an extra cost to the user, and one more device dangling off my laptop.
- koralatov 12y ago
  > I honestly don't care about making my devices thinner > and thinner. My iPhone 4 is thin enough. My laptop may > be heavy but it's more of a desktop replacement anyway. It's the same for me. My 2010 MBP is my primary machine, and I'd much rather a thicker laptop with user-replaceable RAM and storage. Apple spent a lot of time building laptops that were ~1" thick and had these options, so I know that they can do it. They just don't want to do it any more; they'd rather we buy new laptops every ~3 years than gradually upgrade our current ones to last twice that time.
hyperbovine 12y ago
And your Hackintosh will crash, make noise and draw too much power. To an increasingly large segment of the market, these cons far outweigh the possibility of a RAM upgrade.
- adamors 12y ago
  That depends on whether you buy specific hardware for a Hackintosh or try to force it on some existing parts you have laying around in the house. Building a Hackintosh has been hassle free for a good while now. I've been running mine since Lion (2011).
- Adirael 12y ago
  It's not that bad as it was a few years ago. I updated mine today to Yosemite and it was painful but bearable. I bought my hardware with osx86 in mind, it doesn't give me much trouble. No crashes. Noise and power consumption are dependent on what hardware you pick. I was waiting for the new Minis but seeing them I think I'll just keep my i3, RAM, SDD and get a smaller form factor motherboard and keep using the hackintosh.
- eropple 12y ago
  I've built multiple Hackintoshes. They don't crash if you've been smart about part purchases. One of my last two was passively cooled, and I don't care anymore about noise because the machine itself can live in a closet (cable drops outside). And sure, my last Hackintosh drew a lot of power. It was also an i7-875K running at 3.5GHz, which I couldn't get in anything except a $3K Mac Pro at the time. (Total BOM for that machine, which is still in use albeit as a Windows PC: $800.) But anyway, I don't care about the "increasingly large segment of the market". I care about me. So I don't know why you're fluttering about.

computerjunkie 12y ago

I agree. I was really looking forward to what apple would do with the Mac Mini as I wanted it to be my first apple purchase. To be fair,the update seems like a downgrade. Even on the keynote, the product seemed neglected. It looks like I am going look for small form factor cases and stick Linux on them and probably get a Mac book Pro when I save up enough money.

turnip1979 12y ago
Well .. we can vote with our dollars. I just kept my 2010 macbook and got my own ssd and 16GB of RAM. Also, keeping my old Mac Mini from around that time.
cdr 12y ago
Intel NUCs are really interesting small form factor PC kits - a nice medium between completely from scratch (which can be a real pain in SFF) and completely prebuilt. i3/i5 Broadwell NUCs are announced for early 2015.
- singingfish 12y ago
  I've had a couple of Shuttle small form factors this year. Works really well with Linux Mint.
- dragontamer 12y ago
  NUC sucks however. Its way too small. I think I prefer the slightly larger mini-PCs from Zotec. If I build from scratch, the AMD-based AM1 platforms are superb. $30 socketed miniITX motherboards and $20 chips are great.

gaving 12y ago

Even more hilarious is the sounds of these "tamper proof" screws on the bottom. I mean, why do they care so much?

JohnBooty 12y ago
I hate that move. It's possible that a lot of people were using them as servers, upgrading them, running them hard 24/7, and then getting free replacements via AppleCare? That's a pure guess.

prezjordan 12y ago

Well, it could be to fit more stuff inside, while keeping the overall size the same.

jrochkind1 12y ago

I'm sure it didn't hurt in Apple's decision-making that upgrading your RAM was the easiest way to postpone obsolescence.

bradleyland 12y ago

I've come to the unquestionable conclusion that Apple doesn't want customers inside their computers. Full stop. Apple views the personal computer as a device to be used for its serviceable life (until a major component fails), then discarded, recycled, and replaced with a new one. I'm not defending this stance, btw, just stating what I've observed. Our household recently experienced a HDD failure in an iMac purchased late 2010. At 4 years old, the HDD was due for a failure (based on my experience with spinning magnetic disks). No problem, I thought. I'm an experienced hacker; taking this thing apart will be no problem at all. I was right in that taking the iMac apart would be little challenge for me. Honestly, the iMac is a miracle of serviceability for such a compact computer. All of the connectors unsnapped as expected while using the correct tools. Nothing was terribly inaccessible, with the exception of the LCD driver cable. That connector terrifies me, but everything else was cake. What killed me was the HDD thermal monitoring system. Apple uses the internal HDD thermal sensing equipment. Ostensibly (and probably true), monitoring via SMART requires an interrupt, which momentarily halts HDD communication. I/O on a HDD is bad enough without these interruptions, so hats off to Apple for prioritizing performance. The down side of this is that there is no standard for the thermal sensor pins in the connector provided on the HDD. You have to 1) make sure to buy a HDD of the same make as the one you're replacing, and 2) cross your fingers that it isn't a WD HDD, which apparently went through a running change, which A) flipped the thermal sensing pins, and B) changed the connector subtly. For some context, have a look at this article: http://blog.macsales.com/19617-diagnosing-2009-2010-imac-fan-speed-issues-after-upgrading-the-main-hard-drive http://blog.macsales.com/19617-diagnosing-2009-2010-imac-fan... I experienced two challenges. First, my connector had a "nub" on one side, which fit in to a slot in the port on the OEM HDD. The new WD drive had no such slot. Second, my HDD temperature sensor cable had an 8-pin connector. In the article above, you can see that the connector is a 6-pin connector in an 8-pin hole. Because my connector was 8-pins, I couldn't simply flip it, because that shifted the cables by 1 column. I ended up hand filing the nub off the connector, then literally grinding and filing one column of the pins off the connector, turning it in to a 6-pin connector, so that I could flip it. The moral of the story is that Apple makes zero considerations for end-user serviceability. None whatsoever. I wouldn't go so far as to say that they intentionally make it difficult, just that when faced with any decision where the choices are A) benefit the design or profitability of the device in some way or B) retain end-user serviceability, factor B never even gets considered.

Shivetya 12y ago

the other dick move is requiring you to buy the top end mini before optioning to a SSD larger than 256g. Its one helluva up charge to go from the mid model to the top one and the only difference is a slightly faster processor; 300 bucks. Add in the cost to add a larger SSD and its just not remotely attractive

pjmlp 12y ago

I admire Apple systems a lot, but having grown up in a country where the average salary is 400€, I never managed to convince myself to buy their systems. Specially since I value technical features and flexibility to change hardware over design.