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The author asserts that the new episodes are stale, and then in the very next sentence says he hasn't watched a new episode in ten years. Pretty hard to take an

The author asserts that the new episodes are stale, and then in the very next sentence says he hasn't watched a new episode in ten years. Pretty hard to take anything he says seriously after that. This hipster affectation that older things are always better is quite annoying. People complain about SNL in the same way: the current cast is always considered terrible. Yet, five yeas later we inevitably look back on the older era with nostalgia. The current incarnation of The Simpsons sucks, because it's always sucked. You just only remember the good parts of the old episodes because of the fallibility of human memory. This selective memory makes the good old days seem better then they were.

malnourish 12y ago
While I agree about SNL, I strongly disagree about The Simpsons, and I recommend reading Zombie Simpsons [0] if you're interested in reading about the downfall of The Simpsons (and how in many respects, it's not The Simpsons at all). The show absolutely did not suck. You may have never liked it, and that's fine, but the show has had incredible impact, was well written, and was groundbreaking. There are legitimate reasons for not the change in The Simpsons, notably a drastic change in showrunners and writers. [0]http://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/ http://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/
- jghn 12y ago
  I remember around 2000 or so discussing that part if the problem was that the writers then had pretty much grown up watching the show, leading to it staling a bit. 15 years later that's even more true now IMO
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
graeme 12y ago
Have you talked to any Simpsons fans? I have a couple dozen close friends who are simpsons fans, and we pretty much all agree it got worse sometime season 8 onwards. We watch old episodes again. We've also occasionally watched new ones, and the movie, and find them worse than the old ones.
colomon 12y ago
So your hypothesis is that, despite massive changes in writers (and in the case of SNL, cast) over the decades, the level of quality of the two shows is completely constant?
- ecopoesis 12y ago
  No. I'm just saying the old days are not always as we remember. I've never been a huge Simpsons fan: I like the show, but I've never gone out of my way to watch it. I also didn't watch it back during the old days because growing up in rural VT we didn't get a Fox affiliate. But last month when FXX did their every Simpson marathon, I was home with a non sleeping newborn, so I watched a lot of Simpsons. I probably saw around 70% of the episodes. When I occasionally slept, I dreamed of yellow people. From my perspective, it was all pretty good. The tone changed over the course of the show, and I can see how people who grew up with the original version may not like the new, but I still don't think the newer episodes are the terrible dreck they are often made out to be. They're just different. I've just read through Zombie Simpsons, and while it makes a compelling argument, the facts don't seem to bare it out. Take a beloved episode like the monorail one. This is a beloved episode, it makes everyone's best of lists. But in the end, other then an entertains song sung by Phil Hartman, it's fits into the mold that Zombie Simpsons characterizes as bad. Homer gets a new job, a larger part of Speingfield is destroyed, and it's terribly unrealistic.
  - Ollinson 12y ago
    Every simpsons fan I know watches seasons 2-8 all the time in any given year. The episodes don't have any real continuity so they can be viewed in any order for laughs. >The tone changed over the course of the show That is really the only argument rational simpsons fans are making. Anyone who suggests that the new show is TERRIBLE only feels that way because they're comparing older episodes which from start to finish were pure gold vs new ones which are merely funny. It's unfortunate that you have such a negative reaction towards people critical of the newer episodes to say things like "the simpsons sucked and has always sucked." Clearly you enjoy the show on some level I don't really see why you would say that unless you were being intentionally inflammatory.
asveikau 12y ago
The thing is it's possible to go back and watch those early seasons. If today I watch a random episode from the early 90s then I watch a brand new one from last week, it's harder to say my memories of the 1990s are making me prefer the old one. In fact when I do watch an old episode, I often laugh hardest at jokes that I didn't remember. There are definitely ups and downs but on average the first few seasons hold up very well. It's not uncommon to observe that with writer staff turnaround a television series can decline. The only thing that makes this topic slightly absurd is the length of time The Simpsons has been airing new episodes.
Ollinson 12y ago
I guess me and all of my friends were sporting hipster affectations when we were 12 years old because we all noticed the change around 1999-2000 and correspondingly stopped watching. Interesting that I also had my VHS tapes of earlier seasons on repeat from that time until I learned how to pirate copies with XDCC on IRC. The burden is on you to prove that the show hasn't changed. If TV shows didn't change they wouldn't be cancelled. Writers change, plot lines get exhausted, the network demands for a cash cow vs a dynamic new comedy influence the style. That's not even mentioning the famous quote by Mike Scully (show runner, conincedentially taking control right at the moment of supposed quality dip): "When asked in 2007 how the series' longevity is sustained, Scully joked, "Lower your quality standards. Once you've done that you can go on forever." I almost regret putting so much effort responding to a comment that contains troll bait like "the simpsons sucks, because it has always sucks" but the simpsons is a truly special show and what it was deserves to be recognized.
- vor_ 12y ago
  > The burden is on you to prove that the show hasn't changed. I've never been a regular viewer of the Simpsons, so I have no position on this issue, but that is an odd statement. The burden of proof in this case is on those asserting that the show has declined. The default position, until presented with more information, is to have no belief.
  - Ollinson 12y ago
    Your comment claimed that the quality of the show hasn't declined, that any decline is actually the result of the fallibility of human memory. Even during the "golden years" of the simpsons the show changed, it just wasn't necessarily severe or negative. You seem to be shoe horning some lifestyle philosophy you believe (mistrust of the "good old days") into how people receive a television series, which undeniably does change, especially one on TV as long as the simpsons.
  - wodenokoto 12y ago
    I actually think the default assumption is that shows will decline after a few seasons. I think that South park is a show that really improved with time, and to some degree Family Guy had a revival, but other than that, I can't really think of a show that has gone on with a high, constant level of quality.
ivanca 12y ago
No, at all. He is using a measure to make his point: Ratings. You are not using anything. And the "If you think is worst is because you only remember the good parts" is bullshit as a general statement. Internet is better, Windows 7 is million times better than Windows 3.1; even many old people think of "Adventure time" as an awesome cartoon. So this argument that if you think something got worst is because you long for your young tastes is just a well-disguised ad-hominem.
neltnerb 12y ago
I think my favorite part about the Simpsons is how you can date people by which key episodes them remember. For me, it's the X-Files episode, or the Guatemalan Insanity Pepper. But for people a lot younger than me, they remember totally different episodes. I think there's just an age range where the jokes are targeted. I do think the modern version is just sort of more modern. With so many competing cartoons like Adventure Time, Family Guy, and other (better) ones, the overall humor has just evolved. Simpsons I think has tried to evolve too, but can't evolve enough to really be a solid show because doing so would destroy the fan base it does have. Perhaps best to think of it as the "Oracle" of television cartoon comedy =)
themoonbus 12y ago
You do realize that its pretty common for shows to have a prime, pass it, and this has nothing to do with hipsters.
- chrismcb 12y ago
  I think it has something to do work sharks.
gwern 12y ago
> The current incarnation of The Simpsons sucks, because it's always sucked. You just only remember the good parts of the old episodes because of the fallibility of human memory. This selective memory makes the good old days seem better then they were. I would have to disagree here. I grew up watching post-season-9 or so episodes, mostly the new episodes each Sunday night. If I was lucky, I might see an older episode like "30 Minutes Over Tokyo" when it got rerun and I happened to tune in to a weekday episode, and I enjoyed them a lot. (This was long before I became a hardened torrenter.) Then the DVD box sets starting coming out and I asked for them as gifts; season 1, season 2 - these were revelations to me, I had never seen any of them before. (Fox didn't rebroadcast them, or I missed them.) And they were clearly very different from the newer episodes, and I thought by and large they were better.
wodenokoto 12y ago
While I do admit that season 15 isn't as bad as I remember it, I don't know of anyone who consider it a classic and look back on it with nostalgia. However, I do think that since the movie was release they have started to occasionally show episodes that are really good. I do think that for most television shows it is normal that within the concept you burn through most of the good ideas in a few seasons. The novelty of the characters get worn out, so either you have to change the characters away from what made them great or you start repeating yourself; neither is a good choice.

malnourish 12y ago

While I agree about SNL, I strongly disagree about The Simpsons, and I recommend reading Zombie Simpsons [0] if you're interested in reading about the downfall of The Simpsons (and how in many respects, it's not The Simpsons at all). The show absolutely did not suck. You may have never liked it, and that's fine, but the show has had incredible impact, was well written, and was groundbreaking. There are legitimate reasons for not the change in The Simpsons, notably a drastic change in showrunners and writers. [0]http://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/ http://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/

jghn 12y ago
I remember around 2000 or so discussing that part if the problem was that the writers then had pretty much grown up watching the show, leading to it staling a bit. 15 years later that's even more true now IMO
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

graeme 12y ago

Have you talked to any Simpsons fans? I have a couple dozen close friends who are simpsons fans, and we pretty much all agree it got worse sometime season 8 onwards. We watch old episodes again. We've also occasionally watched new ones, and the movie, and find them worse than the old ones.

colomon 12y ago

So your hypothesis is that, despite massive changes in writers (and in the case of SNL, cast) over the decades, the level of quality of the two shows is completely constant?

ecopoesis 12y ago
No. I'm just saying the old days are not always as we remember. I've never been a huge Simpsons fan: I like the show, but I've never gone out of my way to watch it. I also didn't watch it back during the old days because growing up in rural VT we didn't get a Fox affiliate. But last month when FXX did their every Simpson marathon, I was home with a non sleeping newborn, so I watched a lot of Simpsons. I probably saw around 70% of the episodes. When I occasionally slept, I dreamed of yellow people. From my perspective, it was all pretty good. The tone changed over the course of the show, and I can see how people who grew up with the original version may not like the new, but I still don't think the newer episodes are the terrible dreck they are often made out to be. They're just different. I've just read through Zombie Simpsons, and while it makes a compelling argument, the facts don't seem to bare it out. Take a beloved episode like the monorail one. This is a beloved episode, it makes everyone's best of lists. But in the end, other then an entertains song sung by Phil Hartman, it's fits into the mold that Zombie Simpsons characterizes as bad. Homer gets a new job, a larger part of Speingfield is destroyed, and it's terribly unrealistic.
- Ollinson 12y ago
  Every simpsons fan I know watches seasons 2-8 all the time in any given year. The episodes don't have any real continuity so they can be viewed in any order for laughs. >The tone changed over the course of the show That is really the only argument rational simpsons fans are making. Anyone who suggests that the new show is TERRIBLE only feels that way because they're comparing older episodes which from start to finish were pure gold vs new ones which are merely funny. It's unfortunate that you have such a negative reaction towards people critical of the newer episodes to say things like "the simpsons sucked and has always sucked." Clearly you enjoy the show on some level I don't really see why you would say that unless you were being intentionally inflammatory.

asveikau 12y ago

The thing is it's possible to go back and watch those early seasons. If today I watch a random episode from the early 90s then I watch a brand new one from last week, it's harder to say my memories of the 1990s are making me prefer the old one. In fact when I do watch an old episode, I often laugh hardest at jokes that I didn't remember. There are definitely ups and downs but on average the first few seasons hold up very well. It's not uncommon to observe that with writer staff turnaround a television series can decline. The only thing that makes this topic slightly absurd is the length of time The Simpsons has been airing new episodes.

Ollinson 12y ago

I guess me and all of my friends were sporting hipster affectations when we were 12 years old because we all noticed the change around 1999-2000 and correspondingly stopped watching. Interesting that I also had my VHS tapes of earlier seasons on repeat from that time until I learned how to pirate copies with XDCC on IRC. The burden is on you to prove that the show hasn't changed. If TV shows didn't change they wouldn't be cancelled. Writers change, plot lines get exhausted, the network demands for a cash cow vs a dynamic new comedy influence the style. That's not even mentioning the famous quote by Mike Scully (show runner, conincedentially taking control right at the moment of supposed quality dip): "When asked in 2007 how the series' longevity is sustained, Scully joked, "Lower your quality standards. Once you've done that you can go on forever." I almost regret putting so much effort responding to a comment that contains troll bait like "the simpsons sucks, because it has always sucks" but the simpsons is a truly special show and what it was deserves to be recognized.

vor_ 12y ago
> The burden is on you to prove that the show hasn't changed. I've never been a regular viewer of the Simpsons, so I have no position on this issue, but that is an odd statement. The burden of proof in this case is on those asserting that the show has declined. The default position, until presented with more information, is to have no belief.
- Ollinson 12y ago
  Your comment claimed that the quality of the show hasn't declined, that any decline is actually the result of the fallibility of human memory. Even during the "golden years" of the simpsons the show changed, it just wasn't necessarily severe or negative. You seem to be shoe horning some lifestyle philosophy you believe (mistrust of the "good old days") into how people receive a television series, which undeniably does change, especially one on TV as long as the simpsons.
- wodenokoto 12y ago
  I actually think the default assumption is that shows will decline after a few seasons. I think that South park is a show that really improved with time, and to some degree Family Guy had a revival, but other than that, I can't really think of a show that has gone on with a high, constant level of quality.

ivanca 12y ago

No, at all. He is using a measure to make his point: Ratings. You are not using anything. And the "If you think is worst is because you only remember the good parts" is bullshit as a general statement. Internet is better, Windows 7 is million times better than Windows 3.1; even many old people think of "Adventure time" as an awesome cartoon. So this argument that if you think something got worst is because you long for your young tastes is just a well-disguised ad-hominem.

neltnerb 12y ago

I think my favorite part about the Simpsons is how you can date people by which key episodes them remember. For me, it's the X-Files episode, or the Guatemalan Insanity Pepper. But for people a lot younger than me, they remember totally different episodes. I think there's just an age range where the jokes are targeted. I do think the modern version is just sort of more modern. With so many competing cartoons like Adventure Time, Family Guy, and other (better) ones, the overall humor has just evolved. Simpsons I think has tried to evolve too, but can't evolve enough to really be a solid show because doing so would destroy the fan base it does have. Perhaps best to think of it as the "Oracle" of television cartoon comedy =)

themoonbus 12y ago

You do realize that its pretty common for shows to have a prime, pass it, and this has nothing to do with hipsters.

chrismcb 12y ago
I think it has something to do work sharks.

gwern 12y ago

> The current incarnation of The Simpsons sucks, because it's always sucked. You just only remember the good parts of the old episodes because of the fallibility of human memory. This selective memory makes the good old days seem better then they were. I would have to disagree here. I grew up watching post-season-9 or so episodes, mostly the new episodes each Sunday night. If I was lucky, I might see an older episode like "30 Minutes Over Tokyo" when it got rerun and I happened to tune in to a weekday episode, and I enjoyed them a lot. (This was long before I became a hardened torrenter.) Then the DVD box sets starting coming out and I asked for them as gifts; season 1, season 2 - these were revelations to me, I had never seen any of them before. (Fox didn't rebroadcast them, or I missed them.) And they were clearly very different from the newer episodes, and I thought by and large they were better.

wodenokoto 12y ago

While I do admit that season 15 isn't as bad as I remember it, I don't know of anyone who consider it a classic and look back on it with nostalgia. However, I do think that since the movie was release they have started to occasionally show episodes that are really good. I do think that for most television shows it is normal that within the concept you burn through most of the good ideas in a few seasons. The novelty of the characters get worn out, so either you have to change the characters away from what made them great or you start repeating yourself; neither is a good choice.