2 ms·

"And whenever someone accuses IQ of being inadequate, and they come out with their More Complete test, it turns out that their measurements and predictions are

"And whenever someone accuses IQ of being inadequate, and they come out with their More Complete test, it turns out that their measurements and predictions are insufficiently distinctive from IQ, which even further supports the idea of a "general" mental ability." Here's the thing... I'm criticising IQ tests, but I'm not suggesting we create a more complete test, I'm suggesting the whole idea of measuring intelligence numerically is fundamentally flawed. There are a few reasons I believe measuring intelligence numerically is flawed, but probably the central one is that I don't believe it exists as a fixed entity, I believe it's adaptive depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in. As with any debate on human traits the tendency is to go back to the nature vs. nurture question. I believe you can have a natural aptitude for something, but the environment you live in is what helps your intelligence develop, and this is the largest differentiator in what we perceive as intelligence. Put simply, change the environment and you change the intelligence. Therefore scores like IQ do not measure someone's true potential, they only hint at what they've already been exposed to. That's why to me such tests are a waste of time.

eitland 12y ago
> Therefore scores like IQ do not measure someone's true potential, they only hint at what they've already been exposed to. That's why to me such tests are a waste of time. Hmmm. As far as I know you are allowed to retake IQ-tests if you want, still the differences are there. Some people will never pass 120 no matter how many times they take the test.
- ZenoArrow 12y ago
  It appears reading comprehension isn't a prerequisite for a good IQ score, what I'm saying is those scores are irrelevant, do try and keep up. Oh and its very easy to train someone to get beyond your benchmark as long as they have a reasonable grasp on language, you just show them past exam questions and show the steps to take to get the answer, it's what passes for education in many subjects. Just to go further into this, decided to remind myself what an IQ test question looked like. This is the first one that came up... "1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11 - Which one doesn't belong in this series?" Now the "correct" answer is 8, but that's only because we second guess what the examiner wants. Truthfully 11 is equally correct, as its the only 2 digit number, and the number series could be single digit numbers. But there's nowhere to explain your reasoning, so you better choose the "correct" answer anyway...
  - Dylan16807 12y ago
    >reading comprehension...try and keep up Don't be an ass. >What I'm saying is those scores are irrelevant But you claimed the scores are based on what you're exposed to rather than your potential. If they don't change over time then that's a strong counter to your argument. And not being potential was critical to your 'central' flaw with the approach. Perhaps you can name other flaws, but you haven't made them clear, and you haven't actually disagreed with threatofrain's assertion that IQ is the best correlation with general performance that we have. >math It's a series, not a set. 11 is not 'equally' correct.
    - ZenoArrow 12y ago
      "But you claimed the scores are based on what you're exposed to rather than your potential. If they don't change over time then that's a strong counter to your argument." As I mentioned in another comment, I was rude because I was tired of explaining why it was pointless, but I did address that it's possible to teach better IQ scores by focusing on how to pass the tests. "It's a series, not a set. 11 is not 'equally' correct" http://i.word.com/idictionary/series http://i.word.com/idictionary/series "a number of things or events of the same class coming one after another in spatial or temporal succession" Depending on your definition, there's no requirement on a series to contain the complete list of elements, so long as they are in the correct order.
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
        Yep that's a definition. I'm not sure why you quoted it? You can make all kinds of arguments to remove any number, but which one leaves a sequence with minimal kolmogorov complexity? Which one leaves a sequence where you can predict the next number?
        ZenoArrow 12y ago
        "Which one leaves a sequence where you can predict the next number?" Who said you had to predict the next number? If the question asked "Fill in the next number in this sequence" then I'd agree with you, but instead it asked which number didn't belong.
- ZenoArrow 12y ago
  eitland, I'm sorry I was rude towards you, you didn't deserve it. I'll try and make this constructive. Would you agree that human intelligence centres around pattern recognition? If so, which patterns would you class as hard to teach?

eitland 12y ago

> Therefore scores like IQ do not measure someone's true potential, they only hint at what they've already been exposed to. That's why to me such tests are a waste of time. Hmmm. As far as I know you are allowed to retake IQ-tests if you want, still the differences are there. Some people will never pass 120 no matter how many times they take the test.

ZenoArrow 12y ago
It appears reading comprehension isn't a prerequisite for a good IQ score, what I'm saying is those scores are irrelevant, do try and keep up. Oh and its very easy to train someone to get beyond your benchmark as long as they have a reasonable grasp on language, you just show them past exam questions and show the steps to take to get the answer, it's what passes for education in many subjects. Just to go further into this, decided to remind myself what an IQ test question looked like. This is the first one that came up... "1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11 - Which one doesn't belong in this series?" Now the "correct" answer is 8, but that's only because we second guess what the examiner wants. Truthfully 11 is equally correct, as its the only 2 digit number, and the number series could be single digit numbers. But there's nowhere to explain your reasoning, so you better choose the "correct" answer anyway...
- Dylan16807 12y ago
  >reading comprehension...try and keep up Don't be an ass. >What I'm saying is those scores are irrelevant But you claimed the scores are based on what you're exposed to rather than your potential. If they don't change over time then that's a strong counter to your argument. And not being potential was critical to your 'central' flaw with the approach. Perhaps you can name other flaws, but you haven't made them clear, and you haven't actually disagreed with threatofrain's assertion that IQ is the best correlation with general performance that we have. >math It's a series, not a set. 11 is not 'equally' correct.
  - ZenoArrow 12y ago
    "But you claimed the scores are based on what you're exposed to rather than your potential. If they don't change over time then that's a strong counter to your argument." As I mentioned in another comment, I was rude because I was tired of explaining why it was pointless, but I did address that it's possible to teach better IQ scores by focusing on how to pass the tests. "It's a series, not a set. 11 is not 'equally' correct" http://i.word.com/idictionary/series http://i.word.com/idictionary/series "a number of things or events of the same class coming one after another in spatial or temporal succession" Depending on your definition, there's no requirement on a series to contain the complete list of elements, so long as they are in the correct order.
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      Yep that's a definition. I'm not sure why you quoted it? You can make all kinds of arguments to remove any number, but which one leaves a sequence with minimal kolmogorov complexity? Which one leaves a sequence where you can predict the next number?
      - ZenoArrow 12y ago
        "Which one leaves a sequence where you can predict the next number?" Who said you had to predict the next number? If the question asked "Fill in the next number in this sequence" then I'd agree with you, but instead it asked which number didn't belong.
ZenoArrow 12y ago
eitland, I'm sorry I was rude towards you, you didn't deserve it. I'll try and make this constructive. Would you agree that human intelligence centres around pattern recognition? If so, which patterns would you class as hard to teach?