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I was heavily critical of the author's original rant about CSS, and my citation of worse-is-better probably at least partially inspired him to write this post (
by dasil003 12y ago
I was heavily critical of the author's original rant about CSS, and my citation of worse-is-better probably at least partially inspired him to write this post (http://pchiusano.github.io/2014-07-02/css-is-unnecessary#comment-1468335855 http://pchiusano.github.io/2014-07-02/css-is-unnecessary#com...).
However he completely misunderstood my point to suggest that worst-is-better is a conscious design quality. In no way did I mean that, and I don't believe Richard Gabriel meant that either. Worse-is-better is about the reason certain solutions win in the market; it's about an evolutionary trait, not a design philosophy.
Look at it this way. If there are 100 possible technical solutions to a given computing problem, the ones that solve the problem more comprehensively are naturally going to tend to be more complex, this complexity comes with an adoption cost, and that cost works against the likelihood of adoption. Furthermore, when you are talking about something that solves the scope of problems which CSS solves, there is no way you can just sit down and design a better system, it will need to go through many iterations to solve all the things that CSS solves (which no single human being is comprehensively aware of btw). In order to see that kind of investment a system needs buy-in from downstream users over long a period of time.
So the strawman that the author sets up is the idea that someone is out there selling a worse solution on purpose because of this meme which is simply an observation of how technical adoption markets play out. Of course such foolish people may be out there, but no intelligent developer sets out to create something that is deliberately worse. Rather, each tradeoff is considered in its specific contemporary context of the imperfect information available. Whether a solution gains traction and wins in the marketplace is has nothing to do with the subjective qualities of "worse" or "better", but rather is a confluence of the state of the market at various points in time: how well it solves immediate problems, how well it works with existing tech, how easy to adopt, and of course some amount of hype loosely related to the aforementioned.
What doesn't play a huge role is how ugly the evolution of this tech is going to look 20 years down the line when the entire landscape has evolved.
It's a little tiresome when a young idealist comes into a 25-year-old field (I'm guessing the author is not much older than that himself), pisses on the hard work of thousands of people pushing web tech forward bit by bit over decades, and says it should be replaced wholesale because it's just rubbish, and then when someone tells them that you're welcome to try but you'll never get any traction in that Sisyphean task, he responds that people aren't engaging in a rational discussion.
- jamii 12y ago> ...but rather is a confluence of the state of the market at various points in time... > That is, we do not merely calculate in earnest to what extent tradeoffs are necessary or desirable, keeping in mind our goals and values, there is a culture around making such compromises that actively discourages people from even considering more radical, principled approaches. If you can suspend your frustration for a moment, it seems that you and the author are both arguing for explicit consideration of the tradeoffs faced in the real world. Both sides of the field have a tendency to reduce this consideration to easily evaluated heuristics (eg "useless ivory tower wankery"). I think the authors earlier posts on generous reading apply here. There is plenty here to disagree with but noone gains much from taking sides and fighting to the death. Rather than getting wound up we could be having a much more valuable discussion of how market forces shape technology and how we might find ways to support and apply long shot research. EDIT From the discussion you mention: > What might otherwise be an interesting, nuanced discussion of the economics of technology adoption, network effects, switching costs, etc, is instead replaced with sloganeering like 'Worse is Better'. > There may well be times where fighting for revolutionary change or finding some adoption story for completely new tech is a better path forward than incremental improvements. Questions like this can not be settled at the level of ideology or sloganeering...
- jules 12y ago> If there are 100 possible technical solutions to a given computing problem, the ones that solve the problem more comprehensively are naturally going to tend to be more complex, this complexity comes with an adoption cost, and that cost works against the likelihood of adoption. The opposite is true. The best solutions are simple, not complex. Piling features one on top of other features to solve every problem as you encounter it gets you started faster than first thinking carefully about the problem space and then designing a solution. That's worse is better, or better: worse is quicker.
- dasil003 12y agoStating that as an absolute truth is extremely naive. The cases for which that is true are the easy ones, you are very lucky if you have the choice to limit your work to things which have simple and elegant solutions. Most things that touch the real world have an irreducible complexity that you can't simplify with destroying the core value proposition: witness Unicode.