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Tesla: Introducing Autopilot and Dual Motor All Wheel Drive
- jolux 12y agoOffline :(
- yelnatz 12y agoHere's a quick demo of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quu551ehc0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quu551ehc0
- dirtyaura 12y agoIt seems that Tesla's autopilot is pretty similar to other highway autopilots from manufacturers like Mercedes Benz. The new feature seems to be automatic reading of speed signs.
- bri3d 12y ago> The new feature seems to be automatic reading of speed signs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_sign_recognition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_sign_recognition Tesla might have the first US-compatible system, although since it's not out yet it's hard to say if they made it first or not.
- rl3 12y agoWhat happens when these systems fail to detect or otherwise read an obstructed speed limit sign?
- thefreeman 12y agoThe same thing that happens if its obstructed from a human?
- zyx321 12y agoWell, my GPS navigation app seems to know the speed limit most of the time. Remember, even if the system isn't perfect, it can still outperform a human.
- cloudwalking 12y agoBMW has already released this in the United States.
- InclinedPlane 12y agoAnd lane changing.
- mpg33 12y agoImpressive...I wonder how effective these "autopilot" features are in snow and ice road conditions? Does the autopilot and traction control work together? California doesn't have to worry about these things but a lot of northern markets (Canada/Norway) do.
- encoderer 12y agoPlenty of snow in California :)
- zatkin 12y agoWow. It's incredible how far we've come with technology.
- sxp 12y agoFrom http://www.teslamotors.com/models/design http://www.teslamotors.com/models/design >Model S comes standard with a forward looking camera, radar, and 360-degree ultrasonic sensors that actively monitor the surrounding roadway. Progressive software updates over time will enable sophisticated convenience and safety features that use these sensors to respond to real world conditions. These features will ultimately give Model S Autopilot capability on the highway from on-ramp to off-ramp. That's a pretty nice TODO to leave in the code :)
- dwd 12y agoAt this stage all you need to install is the machine learning algorithm so it can watch and learn what real drivers do when faced with the conditions it's sensing. Absolutely brilliant!
- quonn 12y agoMachine learning can't do that and won't be able to for a long time even in principle, to say nothing of doing it in real-time on a car. Autonomous driving contains very little machine learning for all the sensing and high-level parts. It may contain some low-level classifiers for things like people and possibly other cars, but this is not strictly required and car manufacturers generally try to avoid it, because it is difficult to reason about. Traffic sign classification is another candidate, but again, at least the Google car probably pulls this from their precomputed map. Finally, none of these classifiers are trained online, in the car, but always offline, likely on carefully selected data on some GPUs for many days or weeks.
- JumpCrisscross 12y agoFire-and-forget machine learning may be a bit overexuberant, but one should not discount the value of these data. On one hand, there is sensory data about the real road environments these Teslas are traversing. On the other hand, we have human driving decisions. Together, one has–at at a minimum–a rich test environment. At a stretch, it could be analogous to the corpus on which Google developed its translation capabilities. The nightly reporting-home of Tesla's fleet shows how interconnectedness is introducing network effects into unexpected places. Sort of like how map quality is now driven–in part–by the user base.
- anonfunction 12y agoThat's the most terse introduction ever. Where can we find out more information?
- ck2 12y agoA strange thought but I wonder if their cpu uses ECC memory. Autopilot is not a place I want bit level errors to happen. ps. not really a car person but dang that Model X looks nice - announced Feb 2012 but still not shipping?
- duskwuff 12y agoECC? Yes, but that's not all; safety-critical applications like automotive often use two cores running the same code in lockstep, each with their own memory. If the behavior of the two CPUs goes out of sync, the processor can be configured to take corrective actions, such as resetting, halting, and/or going into a failsafe mode. TI has an overview of the safety features in their Hercules microcontrollers here: http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/spry178/spry178.pdf http://www.ti.com/lit/wp/spry178/spry178.pdf
- m_mueller 12y agoDon't you need at least three actors, such that in a single failure condition you can use an election algorithm? I guess two are enough if you do regular snapshotting and the worst case time to restore from a snapshot is lower than the real time bounds you need to comply with.
- michaelt 12y agoIt depends if, when two processors disagree, you can perform a simple 'stop' action. For example, if something goes wrong with the processor on your industrial robot arm, you just stop all the motors and activate all the brakes. No need to figure out which of the processors is right, have an engineer come out and fix the bug that caused the disagreement. On the other hand, if something goes wrong with the processor during your space shuttle launch, it would not help to turn off all the rockets - better to have an election algorithm so things can keep working. Is a self-driving car more like the first case or the second? Depends if the driver is ready to take the wheel :)
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
- guelo 12y agoD is for disappointment.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- Animats 12y agoTheir "autopilot" is basically a "driver assist" system: lane-keeping plus adaptive cruise control. Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac, Volkswagen, Ford, etc. already have that. Tesla's is rumored to be the Daimler-Benz system. That's good enough for about 99% of freeway driving. The last 1% is a problem, which is why none of the big car companies call it automatic driving. Most of them put in systems to insure the driver keeps paying attention, such as insisting on hands on the wheel in auto mode. We're approaching the "deadly valley" - automatic driving that's almost good enough that the driver can stop paying attention. On the far side of the "deadly valley" is full-auto driving, including automatic handling of unusual and emergency situations, which is where Google and CMU/Cadillac are headed. The minimum safe level is probably a system that can get the vehicle stopped autonomously when it's headed into a situation it can't handle. Beeping the driver to take over is not going to work in practice. As soon as hands-off driving is available, people will use it when tired, drunk, or texting.
- FeeTinesAMady 12y agoWho downvoted you? This is a very serious issue. A partial autopilot for cars is worse than useless: it will create distracted drivers who can't react when the car encounters something it can't handle. Self-driving cars need to be either 100% or 0%.
- iaw 12y agoThere has been a ton more downvoting on HN in the last month and it's getting kind of absurd. It's like a group of redditors hit the downvote threshold and just started going at it. edit: case in point
- Animats 12y agoI've noticed that saying something negative about Apple or, now, Tesla, produces a quick downvote. On Slashdot, there's a striking phenomenon that saying something negative about Apple produces downvotes after about 15-30 minutes. Unclear whether this is a fanboy problem or a commercial "reputation management" firm in action.
- chrismorgan 12y agoOoh, I like http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/ http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/: “Wir präsentieren Autopilot und Dual Motor Allradantrieb” Did they confuse Austria (de_AT) with Australia (en_AU)?
- sschueller 12y agoIt sure looks like it.
- blackdogie 12y agoThere are no kangaroos in Austria , that's how I remember the difference ;) That will confuse those Australians this morning.
- aortega 12y agoMarketing fail. They should announce it as a 700 HP car with better acceleration than the fastest Audi R8, while being big enough to take the kids to the soccer club and go shopping.
- agumonkey 12y agoDoes it improve battery life too ?
- antoncohen 12y agoMore impressive than the "autopilot" is the D option, at least to me. The P85D has 691 hp and will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. If that 0-60 holds true it should the quickest accelerating production 4-door sedan, besting the E63 AMG S (3.4 sec). And 691 hp makes in nearly the most powerful. The "autopilot" is similar to what Mercedes and BMW have had for a while (software updates is a nice capability), but the performance is best in class.
- simi_ 12y agoFor comparison, the Ferrari FF has something like 670 bhp.
- lylebarrere 12y agoI am surprised that they did not stream the announcement or immediately put it up for viewing. I think they have the opportunity to turn their announcements into as much of an event as Apple does. Certainly the amount of hype they got from Elon's tweet shows that people are paying attention, I bet there are people clamoring for Tesla news in the same way people are clamoring for Apple news.
- Sammi 12y agoYour comment is from 9 hours ago, their video is from 8 hours ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6lZJWL_Xk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6lZJWL_Xk :)
- lylebarrere 12y agoThanks for the link. I checked the front page of their website, their blog and the Vimeo channel their new car walkthroughs and the model X announcement were on, I thought I checked the youtube page. My point is more general, they are missing an opportunity to turn these product announcements into as much of a event as they possibly can and vastly increase their visibility. Update: I show the video having been posted on October 10th. The event and my comment were on October 9th. Their blog post is also on the 10th and starts with "Yesterday we...". They are missing an opportunity making the resources available the following day, a Friday (take out the trash day) when news viewership numbers are way down.
- tmsh 12y agoI don't understand why they don't solve the problem of sitting in traffic (relatively safe) in a hands-free way first. Would help so many people be more productive, etc..
- lnanek2 12y agoIt's already solved for highway driving. There have been radar assisted cruise control since 1997 and consumer cars that can handle stop and go traffic automatically since 2006. I don't think anyone who recommend or take liability for taking your hands off the wheel, however.
- jonmrodriguez 12y agovideo demo of Autopilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quu551ehc0&t=40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7quu551ehc0&t=40
- dakrisht 12y agoQuite a bit of hype here. My 3-year old CLS can do most of not all of these "new features." Including, parallel parking itself, alerting me to someone in my blind spot via audible, visual and haptic feedback via the steering column shaking, keep its distance from the car in front via Distronic Adaptive Cruise Control and slow to zero (0) during a braking situation, alert me via haptic feedback (steering column shake) if I swerve out of my lane and for shits and giggles has night vision (totally useless for me in the city at least). But what's even more impressive is that the brand new S-Class I just picked up does all of this and then some: it has a pedestrian awareness system: the car will brake if it senses a collision with a pedestrian. It has magic body control: a system that scans the road ahead via stereoscopic cameras for potholes and uneven pavement surfaces and adjust the suspension in real-time for a smooth ride (this is an insane feature). It has active steer assist! It will keep me in my line by applying brake pressure to the opposing wheels and will not let you swerve out. It also has another two features that I simply can't think of at the moment. But there is a really neat video from Mercedes Benz on all of this somewhere. I also believe Tesla's entire drive train and technology is made by Daimler-Benz. Finally, like Animats pointed out - all of these features are not necessarily a good thing for the heavily distracted driver these days. These features open the door for even more careless driving (texting, fiddling with Google on your Tesla screen and etc.) I believe Mercedes actually have self driving technology working for a few years now (they have a freight truck that is completely autonomous) but decided to pull full self driving from the S-Class due to many of these issues raised. I guess what irks me most about a lot of these Tesla drivers (from reading articles, blogs, posts and watching the news tonight after the unveiling) is that they are so hung up on the damn hype, they do not see past the issues that still remain for the company. Yes, Musk is a visionary guy, no doubt. But too much hype here. Some dumb women even said on the news when asked how she likes the new car "I'll let you know tomorrow morning." Clearly alluding to her caring solely about the lousy $20k of shares she probably has in the company. I think another big problem for Tesla (and yes, going off track here) is the fact that not everyone can afford a $70k+ car. Tesla needs to get a sub-$40k car if they want to actually sustain this model. I just don't see how they can by selling a niche car to a niche market. Finally, like others said, we need to go 100% autonomous or 0%. The middle ground is scary. I bought two Mercedes because I love how amazingly engineered they are. They are at the pinnacle of modern engineering and perhaps the best built cars on earth (most likely). I enjoy driving. I don't enjoy playing with a touchscreen or texting. The features I have on my cars compliment the driving experience, they make it better. I fear many people will start buying cars (whether Teslas or cheaper) for these "lazy" features that allude to you not having to concentrate as much any more. This is a scary premonition and I don't see it ending well.
- jhgg 12y agoFootage of the announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6lZJWL_Xk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6lZJWL_Xk
- IgorPartola 12y agoIt is funny that on HN the discussion is mainly focused on driver assist and its merits/drawbacks, while the real innovation is being ignored: this thing has two engines, increased range (on all but top of the line versions where range is decreased by only 10 miles), and is nearly a 10 second car, with 0-60 time in just over 3 seconds. Oh and roller coaster-like lateral acceleration of 1 g. Also note that the range of the dual motor setup is the result of software optimization of which engine to run at what power level at what point. This is the really exciting new development here.
- cstpdk 12y agoThanks for saying this. I was scratching my head as to why the top comments focused on the wrong thing. Distributed coordinated engines is in my opinion hugely exciting
- IgorPartola 12y agoAbsolutely. Some more stats I found about the maxed out P85D: 691 horse power, 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, quarter mile in 11.8 seconds. The curb weight on this thing is 4,936 lb which is quite heavy for a car this fast. Also very cool: apparently, the reason for adding a second engine increasing range is because now there is more capacity to regenerate/recapture energy when slowing down. Personally, this is the first Tesla car I actually want. Edit: Jalopnik review http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-p85d-this-is-it-and-i-went-for-a-ride-1644637002 http://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-p85d-this-is-it-and-i-went...
- scott_karana 12y agoThe base model at 4,600 is also very heavy for a car in the class, so buyers likely aren't going to mind 300 more lbs for AWD. :-)
- m0th87 12y agoThe's some pretty big maintenance drawbacks to AWD though. If you blow out a tire, you have to replace all four.
- peterwwillis 12y agoI was about to get all OOH, CAR PORN STATS but then I saw the Dodge Challenger/Charger SRT Hellcats... which are literally half the price, and faster. Womp womp.
- joyeuse6701 12y agoSomewhat... In a straight line ya, not in a road course (most likely). Definitely agree with you on the point of price and yet, it's sort of hard to compare them. If drag racing/street racing is what you're after yah, Dodge all the way.
- hnnewguy 12y ago>not in a road course (most likely). For that, the GT-R is a monster, also $30k cheaper than the Tesla.
- grecy 12y agoThe Hellcats are cheap...Do you want to buy a cheap car? And of course, it's only until you go to a gas station.
- peterwwillis 12y agoIf you're trying to insinuate the North American definition of 'inexpensive due to inferior quality', that doesn't apply here at all. One is a muscle car, and one is the most advanced electric vehicle in the world. Apples to oranges. On comparing price to horsepower, it's totally cheap in comparison, and yes I would prefer the Dodge. Assuming $80 per tank, with a fillup once per week, it would take me 14.4 years of continuous driving for the cost of gas to equal that of the Tesla, without taking my house's electric bills into account.
- Datsundere 12y agoI love tesla for it's all electric cars. But do we hate driving so much now that we're taking drivers out of the driving experience? This is not just for tesla but any other automaker. If you're doing 'self driving' cars, why not make better technology for public transportation which makes way more sense. Not to mention this picture: http://randomdude.com/images/car-bus-bike.jpg http://randomdude.com/images/car-bus-bike.jpg
- ceejayoz 12y ago> But do we hate driving so much now that we're taking drivers out of the driving experience? For the most part, yes. Plenty of people in LA/NYC have multi-hour commutes each day, and I imagine they'd be very happy to work in the car if the computer could drive. I just finished an 8 hour drive to visit family, and it'd have been much more pleasant if I could just hang out with the family and play games in the car for that time. > why not make better technology for public transportation which makes way more sense In the US, because it's a political non-starter in most areas.
- wffurr 12y agoI really dislike the idea of vehicles capable of that kind of acceleration on city streets. It could make for some truly spectacular accidents at intersections. It's a shame that superfast impractical cars like this get all the good press and hype, while a sensible version with limited acceleration and top speed but with much greater range would be boring. The latter would be a much greater benefit to humanity.
- chadgeidel 12y agoI'm sure you've seen all the same "street racing" videos with folks crashing that I have. Yes, it's dangerous, but typically what you aren't seeing is that the driver has completely disabled the (normally always-on) traction aids. I hate hooligan drivers as much as / more than the next guy, and the "horsepower wars" are getting a little out of control, but I don't think that the Model S is any less safe than a Mustang Camaro, or Charger that one can get for less than half the price. (disclaimer: I'm a huge automotive enthusiast, and regularly take my car on the track)
- wffurr 12y agoI don't care to share street space with those, either. Or sport bikes, or tractor-trailers, etc. The track is an appropriate place for those kinds of vehicles. (Also an enormous amount of fun!) Not-fun is trying to drive a twitchy high-horsepower car in a congested urban environment. Somewhat fun is opening up that car for the one clear block that you get, except that it's extremely dangerous for everyone around you. Only sociopaths incapable of thinking about the effect of their actions on others do that kind of thing. Not even street racing, just stepping on the gas out of frustration. I'd be way more interested in the "autopilot" features if they worked in urban settings, such as automatic braking for obstacles.
- Tharkun 12y agoSeems like more and more cars have radar/ultrasound sensors. Won't this eventually lead to interference? Can such a system be influenced by, say, a nutter with a stronger radar?