3 ms·

> So I need to pay money to a big institution to be considered a student? In the US, I guess you do. Here in Finland, all uni/polytechnic/what-have-you studen

by akx 12y ago

> So I need to pay money to a big institution to be considered a student? In the US, I guess you do. Here in Finland, all uni/polytechnic/what-have-you students get a school-issued email address and student identification card, and tuition is free. So I guess your criticism is for the US culture? :)

maximgsaini 12y ago
It is not only the US which abides by this culture, much of the world does. Northern Europe comes across as a stark exception, though!
Cshelton 12y ago
I want to emphasize here a common misconception of 'free'. Your education is not free, some may even argue it is more expensive than the US system. Myself included. You pay an extraordinary amount of taxes for the 'free' education. You pay for it regardless if you decide to attend university or not. Letting the 'rich' pay for it is not an economic solution either. Hence the outrage in the US of moving toward the European socialist model, most do not want anything close to it.
- LordIllidan 12y ago
  I am from Malta, where students get paid to attend University, in the form of stipends and government grants. It can stand to improve, but I see nothing wrong with the idea. You still have to pay taxes anyway, why not spend them on the common good?
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >>Hence the outrage in the US of moving toward the European socialist model, most do not want anything close to it. "Most" do not want anything close to it, or the rich do not want anything close to it? I'm absolutely certain that most people in the US would vote for free healthcare and education. The problem of course is that politicians and special interest groups make sure things never get to that stage.
- Luc 12y ago
  > I want to emphasize here a common misconception of 'free'. You've blown my mind. I need to think this through carefully, but your reasoning may very well apply to health-care too. Thanks for setting us straight. I'll be sure to vote for privitization next opportunity! EDIT: Sarcasm!
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > I need to think this through carefully, but your reasoning may very well apply to health-care too. I haven't seen the numbers on education, but certainly no OECD country has healthcare more expensive than that in the US. Heck, many pay less in public funds than the US, even though the private healthcare costs in the US are a little bit higher than the public costs -- and this was true before the Affordable Care Act, just to forestall anyone who might blame "ObamaCare".
    - Cshelton 12y ago
      Let's go through some simple logic here...other countries have less expensive healthcare, they pay less in public redistributions for healthcare, and that equates to a better healthcare system? If I'm a skilled doctor, from an microeconomic stand point, I'm going to work in a place that has higher compensation. You seem to go under the assumption that less expensive = better...
      - dragonwriter 12y ago
        No, other developed countries have generally comparable results in concrete outcome measurements to the US, as well as lower (per capita and per GDP) public + private costs, and better access (universal, generally) to non-emergency care. Additionally, several also have lower public + private costs than the US's public costs (which in turn are lower than US private costs).
        Luc 12y ago
        Cshelton has got to be a troll. I'm kind of ashamed I fell for it, but oh well, live and learn.
- sampo 12y ago
  > You pay an extraordinary amount of taxes for the 'free' education. I once made a rough comparison, in the 60k–100k yearly salary range, for tax rates between Finland and California. As far as I remember, they were quite similar. Just, in Finland you get (almost) free education, (almost) free health care, better public transportation and worse national defense. I'd be happy to do this again, if you (or someone) provide the California numbers, I'll do Finland.
  - Cshelton 12y ago
    Yes yes...Finland and California are the same everything. So interchangeable that one could live in CA or Finland and have the same life style....no. Cost != value. On that though...worse national defense...you realize the US has the largest armed militia in the world...the people. Good luck with Russia!
- Dewie 12y ago
  This isn't just being incredibly pedantic[1], it is more importantly incredibly insulting. I assure you, most people are intelligent enough to realize that money doesn't grow on trees, that the "free" education is funded by someone, and that it is (in most cases) funded by them the people, indirectly. Indeed, this is not some secret that "Europe" is blissfully ignorant to, and that they would abolish the second that they finally put the pieces together, perhaps aided by enlightened individuals such as yourself. [1] "Free" in this context means that it is subsidized by the government, and it is probably funded by some taxation. Do you have a better word for it, that isn't impractically wordy and awkward? Then convince us to use that.
hk__2 12y ago
Same in France. I paid €5 for my fifth and last year of higher education that started this September, and I get €250/mo during 10 months to help me pay for food/housing/books. Students in more confortable situations paid 450€ and don’t get any money during the year, but that’s still pretty cheap.
- thekingofspain 12y ago
  Small tidbit: In English, it's spelled with an M, not an N! Comfortable :) But you probably knew that already.
  - hk__2 12y ago
    Thanks, that’s a typo :)

by akx 12y ago

maximgsaini 12y ago

It is not only the US which abides by this culture, much of the world does. Northern Europe comes across as a stark exception, though!

Cshelton 12y ago

I want to emphasize here a common misconception of 'free'. Your education is not free, some may even argue it is more expensive than the US system. Myself included. You pay an extraordinary amount of taxes for the 'free' education. You pay for it regardless if you decide to attend university or not. Letting the 'rich' pay for it is not an economic solution either. Hence the outrage in the US of moving toward the European socialist model, most do not want anything close to it.

LordIllidan 12y ago
I am from Malta, where students get paid to attend University, in the form of stipends and government grants. It can stand to improve, but I see nothing wrong with the idea. You still have to pay taxes anyway, why not spend them on the common good?
enraged_camel 12y ago
>>Hence the outrage in the US of moving toward the European socialist model, most do not want anything close to it. "Most" do not want anything close to it, or the rich do not want anything close to it? I'm absolutely certain that most people in the US would vote for free healthcare and education. The problem of course is that politicians and special interest groups make sure things never get to that stage.
Luc 12y ago
> I want to emphasize here a common misconception of 'free'. You've blown my mind. I need to think this through carefully, but your reasoning may very well apply to health-care too. Thanks for setting us straight. I'll be sure to vote for privitization next opportunity! EDIT: Sarcasm!
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > I need to think this through carefully, but your reasoning may very well apply to health-care too. I haven't seen the numbers on education, but certainly no OECD country has healthcare more expensive than that in the US. Heck, many pay less in public funds than the US, even though the private healthcare costs in the US are a little bit higher than the public costs -- and this was true before the Affordable Care Act, just to forestall anyone who might blame "ObamaCare".
  - Cshelton 12y ago
    Let's go through some simple logic here...other countries have less expensive healthcare, they pay less in public redistributions for healthcare, and that equates to a better healthcare system? If I'm a skilled doctor, from an microeconomic stand point, I'm going to work in a place that has higher compensation. You seem to go under the assumption that less expensive = better...
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      No, other developed countries have generally comparable results in concrete outcome measurements to the US, as well as lower (per capita and per GDP) public + private costs, and better access (universal, generally) to non-emergency care. Additionally, several also have lower public + private costs than the US's public costs (which in turn are lower than US private costs).
      - Luc 12y ago
        Cshelton has got to be a troll. I'm kind of ashamed I fell for it, but oh well, live and learn.
sampo 12y ago
> You pay an extraordinary amount of taxes for the 'free' education. I once made a rough comparison, in the 60k–100k yearly salary range, for tax rates between Finland and California. As far as I remember, they were quite similar. Just, in Finland you get (almost) free education, (almost) free health care, better public transportation and worse national defense. I'd be happy to do this again, if you (or someone) provide the California numbers, I'll do Finland.
- Cshelton 12y ago
  Yes yes...Finland and California are the same everything. So interchangeable that one could live in CA or Finland and have the same life style....no. Cost != value. On that though...worse national defense...you realize the US has the largest armed militia in the world...the people. Good luck with Russia!
Dewie 12y ago
This isn't just being incredibly pedantic[1], it is more importantly incredibly insulting. I assure you, most people are intelligent enough to realize that money doesn't grow on trees, that the "free" education is funded by someone, and that it is (in most cases) funded by them the people, indirectly. Indeed, this is not some secret that "Europe" is blissfully ignorant to, and that they would abolish the second that they finally put the pieces together, perhaps aided by enlightened individuals such as yourself. [1] "Free" in this context means that it is subsidized by the government, and it is probably funded by some taxation. Do you have a better word for it, that isn't impractically wordy and awkward? Then convince us to use that.

hk__2 12y ago

Same in France. I paid €5 for my fifth and last year of higher education that started this September, and I get €250/mo during 10 months to help me pay for food/housing/books. Students in more confortable situations paid 450€ and don’t get any money during the year, but that’s still pretty cheap.

thekingofspain 12y ago
Small tidbit: In English, it's spelled with an M, not an N! Comfortable :) But you probably knew that already.
- hk__2 12y ago
  Thanks, that’s a typo :)