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There is a downside to hacking-as-livelihood. Many workers are overworked. They hack for a living, but seldom have time to hack for fun. This is especially true

by reedlaw 12y ago

There is a downside to hacking-as-livelihood. Many workers are overworked. They hack for a living, but seldom have time to hack for fun. This is especially true among software developers. There are far fewer activities organized around programming than in the West. Occasionally there are weekend hackathons, but few professional programmers have the heart to participate. They are looking to spend time with family or enjoy a few hours outdoors on the rare weekends when they don't have to work.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
Its not that bad here. Saturdays aren't work days anymore for most professionals like they were in the 90s.
- reedlaw 12y ago
  Yes, Saturdays are not "required" work days for white collar workers, but overtime is the norm and often approaches 60 hours. For blue collar workers I've seen 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Yep, not a single day off despite having national mandatory vacation days.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    Definitely not the norm in my office. I think I'm the only person here right now.
stretchwithme 12y ago
Same downside as doing anything for a living.
- reedlaw 12y ago
  Not so much if you work a normal 40 hour workweek. That leaves some productive energy for evenings and weekends.
  - stretchwithme 12y ago
    I meant you can work too much at anything, not just this job.
potatolicious 12y ago
Doing it for a living certainly does take some of the fun out of it, and overworking in particular is both common and unhealthy. That said, I don't think the presence of hackathons (or other such "scene" events) should be taken as evidence of the existence of a hacking community (or lack thereof). Part of the point the author makes is that, unlike in the West, hacking/making is not a big deal. It's not a subculture or a statement, it simply is. One of the things I really despise about hackathons here is how much time they spend wallowing in their own cultural statement. Sponsored by Monster Energy? Check. Important investors as judges? Check. Nerf guns? Yep. Quadcopters flying everywhere? Yeeeep. In the end it feels like 50% creating stuff and 50% reinforcing your place in the Subculture. In the same way the video game subculture is 50% enjoying video games, and 50% self-referential memes about its own subculture-ness. When I first got started in programming it was on obscure forums on the Internet. I didn't participate in any "scene" events, I just wrote code, and collaborated with others online who wrote code. We did it for its own sake, not to win competitions or impress judges or hobnob with industry luminaries. We just did. I'd venture that most of the hacking going on in the world (in the West or the East) is going on in backyards - both virtual and real. It's hard to gauge how much is going on precisely because they're just hacking and making, not preening their feathers ostentatiously and inventing capital-letter names for their movement.
- darkmighty 12y ago
  It's hard to argue with both socializing around and celebrating creativity. Maybe a little less fanfare would be due, but your argument wasn't very convincing overall.

by reedlaw 12y ago

seanmcdirmid 12y ago

Its not that bad here. Saturdays aren't work days anymore for most professionals like they were in the 90s.

reedlaw 12y ago
Yes, Saturdays are not "required" work days for white collar workers, but overtime is the norm and often approaches 60 hours. For blue collar workers I've seen 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Yep, not a single day off despite having national mandatory vacation days.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  Definitely not the norm in my office. I think I'm the only person here right now.

stretchwithme 12y ago

Same downside as doing anything for a living.

reedlaw 12y ago
Not so much if you work a normal 40 hour workweek. That leaves some productive energy for evenings and weekends.
- stretchwithme 12y ago
  I meant you can work too much at anything, not just this job.

potatolicious 12y ago

Doing it for a living certainly does take some of the fun out of it, and overworking in particular is both common and unhealthy. That said, I don't think the presence of hackathons (or other such "scene" events) should be taken as evidence of the existence of a hacking community (or lack thereof). Part of the point the author makes is that, unlike in the West, hacking/making is not a big deal. It's not a subculture or a statement, it simply is. One of the things I really despise about hackathons here is how much time they spend wallowing in their own cultural statement. Sponsored by Monster Energy? Check. Important investors as judges? Check. Nerf guns? Yep. Quadcopters flying everywhere? Yeeeep. In the end it feels like 50% creating stuff and 50% reinforcing your place in the Subculture. In the same way the video game subculture is 50% enjoying video games, and 50% self-referential memes about its own subculture-ness. When I first got started in programming it was on obscure forums on the Internet. I didn't participate in any "scene" events, I just wrote code, and collaborated with others online who wrote code. We did it for its own sake, not to win competitions or impress judges or hobnob with industry luminaries. We just did. I'd venture that most of the hacking going on in the world (in the West or the East) is going on in backyards - both virtual and real. It's hard to gauge how much is going on precisely because they're just hacking and making, not preening their feathers ostentatiously and inventing capital-letter names for their movement.

darkmighty 12y ago
It's hard to argue with both socializing around and celebrating creativity. Maybe a little less fanfare would be due, but your argument wasn't very convincing overall.