10 ms·

Not mentioned in the title, but important: Winzip.com has been hacked as well. Do not trust their binaries. Either this will be headline news tomorrow, or it

Not mentioned in the title, but important: Winzip.com has been hacked as well. Do not trust their binaries. Either this will be headline news tomorrow, or it will be suppressed in its entirety. The OP will probably go to prison, unfortunately, as they will not differentiate between this and black hat intrusion - the case will be judged by someone who saw his nephew using a computer, once, and they will go after him, because they know who he is, and will not have any joy identifying the actual intruders, and this will just go further to demonstrate that the spy agency dragnets are as useful as a chocolate teapot in preventing and acting against actual crime. I hope he contacted a great defence attorney and the ACLU at the same time as Yahoo and the FBI.

philjohn 12y ago
TIL - people still use WinZip
- ssw1n 12y ago
  This ...
- Someone1234 12y ago
  It is surprising how many 90s tools remain popular today: WinZip, WinRar, WinAmp, CCleaner, Icq, Real Player, etc. People just get into using something and simply never stop. Then there's the comfort barrier to switching (e.g. I know how to use WinZip but 7Zip is new and unfamiliar). CCleaner is still popular with low level tech support types, which is quite ironic as it damages the Windows Registry on later versions of the OS. There is also built in tools (Disk Cleaner, Recycling Bin maximum size, auto-Defrag/Trim, etc) which accomplish most of the same things. Teachers use Real Player. Several nationalities (Russia?) use ICQ.
  - sdegutis 12y ago
    To this day I can't figure out how ICQ ever became popular, but yes I can vouch that there are still people who use it and probably always will.
    - dzhiurgis 12y ago
      For some reason it was considered anonymous and safe from surveillance.
    - Someone1234 12y ago
      It originally became popular simply due to lack of competition. AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) was popular but full of ads and didn't offer many features. MSN Messenger (later "Live Messenger" ".Net Messenger Service") didn't exist yet (1999) and while Windows had something called Netmeeting it was simply terrible. ICQ technically came around before AIM, being released in 1996 Vs. 1997 but AIM hit the ground running as AOL hooked up their massive (then) subscriber base. So while AIM was a more popular service, ICQ became popular with a certain more savvy class of user (e.g. tech' nerds, who wanted more functionality, and something NOT tied to their email address). ICQ offered that. Less ads, more features, and slightly anonymous (ICQ numbers). ICQ sucks by todays' standards, but in 1996-1999 it was really competing with AIM. There's also Yahoo! Messenger that came out in 1998 which was fairly popular (particularly as an "AIM replacement"). ICQ just somehow remained popular in certain parts of the world for the same reason Facebook isn't going away: It reached a critical mass, now "everyone" is using it which means "everyone" has to continue using it...
      - whatusername 12y ago
        Don't forget that the A in AOL stands for 1/193 countries. In AU (yes - anecdote != data) -- friends I would chat with were all on ICQ - before switching over to msn. Never heard of AIM
        sharpneli 12y ago
        Second datapoint. In FI everyone who did not use IRC used ICQ and then switched to MSN.
        dwd 12y ago
        Also AU and used ICQ; then MSN. Note there was a strong anti-AOL sentiment throughout the 90's.
  - agildehaus 12y ago
    Can you point me to a description of CCleaner's problems? It's still my go-to tool for cleaning computers, and I've never had a problem or heard of anything major (besides the normal bugs that get fixed). It also isn't a 90s tool, being first released in 2003. What's your idea of a better alternative?
    - vkjv 12y ago
      Before anything else, I should mention that I haven't worked help desk in over 5 years. Back when I worked help desk, the most common reason for a completely FUBAR and need a re-install was that the user ran CCleaner on it.
      - cookiecaper 12y ago
        Your organization likely did something unconventional with the registry that made systems break when touched by CCleaner (perhaps a groupware tool, or perhaps the broken systems had already been FUBAR'd by intrusive software and CCleaner's attempt to fix that FUBAR triple-FUBAR'd it). That doesn't mean CCleaner's behavior is correct, but it's probably a situation the developers haven't been able to test against. For what it's worth, I've run CCleaner's registry cleaner on dozens of machines and never had a problem of any type, and I still use CCleaner sometimes because it's a simple way to clean the temp/junk files left by many common applications with one button click. I always feel a little nervous when I run the registry cleaner, and while I haven't noticed any problems, I also haven't noticed a meaningful improvement after running it either. I should probably stop doing it just for that reason.
        Someone1234 12y ago
        > That doesn't mean CCleaner's behavior is correct, but it's probably a situation the developers haven't been able to test against. So reading between the lines, you're saying that CCleaner is a bad idea simply because they cannot possibly understand the registry well enough to make the changes that they're making. We agree completely. Honestly if people want to use CCleaner to do jump lists, file history, and caches (although that last one is misguided) then I'm all for it. There's very little chance anything will break with those (it is hard to screw up!). I just warn against the registry cleaner primarily, and just feel like with Disk Cleaner and Windows' automatic cleaning that has been integrated for a while you could live without using CCleaner (unless you still have a Windows 9x box).
  - cdr 12y ago
    I see CCleaner on probably at least 50% of the desktops shown by people streaming on Twitch. Seems so odd to me. Then again, I used WinRAR up until probably 2010 or so, whenever ninite made it easier to install 7zip. A sort of related oddity is how often I see OpenOffice on the desktops in doctors offices - usually alongside Microst Office icons. I have no idea what they would use it for.
  - computator 12y ago
    > CCleaner is still popular... which is quite ironic as it damages the Windows Registry CCleaner has two main use-cases: a performance tool (allegedly) and a privacy tool. You assume that CCleaner is popular because people think that it boosts performance. This was never my use-case and anyone that I've seen actually uses it as a privacy tool, i.e., to clean up browser history, delete caches, wipe free space, etc., to not expose what they've been looking at, searching for, and downloading. With respect to privacy, if I see someone using CCleaner, I recommend that they switch over to BleachBit[1] which is open source and which even Bruce Schneier swears by. I used both simultaneously for awhile on my Windows systems and found that BleachBit found many more privacy-sensitive files to erase than CCleaner. [1] http://bleachbit.sourceforge.net/ http://bleachbit.sourceforge.net/
    - Someone1234 12y ago
      If you're interested in privacy and have Windows 8 Pro, you can use Client Hyper-V and Differencing Disks to make what is effectively a "read only" system. You boot into the VM, do whatever it is you have to do, then shred the differential [0]. Alternatively just encrypt the VM[1]. Alternatively again just run a Linux "Live OS" from a DVD and pull the power to "wipe." Alternatively ad-infinitum make a Windows To Go Thumb Drive and smash it with a brick when you're done. [0] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=WS.10).aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=WS.10)... [1] http://www.virtualizationadmin.com/kbase/VirtualizationTips/ServerVirtualization/MicrosoftHyper-VTips/Security/DosandDontsofEncryptionwithHyper-V.html http://www.virtualizationadmin.com/kbase/VirtualizationTips/...
  - maximumoverload 12y ago
    I am from Czech Republic. ICQ was popular here way more than in the rest of the world, but it got displaced by Facebook Messenger (and to some smaller extent Google Talk/Hangout/what's the name now). I have no idea about Russia or Israel, where it was too popular.
  - bad_user 12y ago
    It's a little ironic, but I still find WinAmp to be the best audio player. I mean - all I want to do is to quickly setup a playlist out of a bunch of directories and eventually do searches in it, which is incredibly common at a party when you quickly assemble playlists from multiple sources. Other media players are completely retarded.
chatmasta 12y ago
The OP will go to prison? Seems a bit hyperbolic to me, without any sort of citation or basis for belief.
- w-ll 12y ago
  It probably would have been best to just notify Winzip. Telling the FBI you broke into a server to see if you could, and that you found that someone else had also broken in before you is just plain stupid.
  - rbobby 12y ago
    Bank robber calling the cops to report the safe has already been cleaned out...
    - Mikushi 12y ago
      That would imply OP had malicious intentions, which he apparently did not.
      - nilved 12y ago
        Malice is in the eye of the beholder. He logged into a server he didn't own and ran commands without authorization. That is malicious from the perspective of the law.
        derekp7 12y ago
        Out of curiosity, wouldn't this also apply to the security researcher at erratasec.com that did an earlier survey? That scan logged into peoples boxes and executed a ping going out. Now obviously there isn't any damage, but what legal theory is protecting these legit security researchers?
        thefreeman 12y ago
        Nothing is protecting them legally, and many people mentioned similar things on those threads. However the fact that this guy sent himself reverse shells and actively exploited the servers makes it much more likely that someone will try to prosecute him.
tantalor 12y ago
Contrary to his claim, OP is clearly not a white hat "ethical hacker", since he does not have consent from the owners of any of these systems. > they will not differentiate between this and black hat intrusion Should they? This reads like textbook unauthorized access to a computer system, > A quick `ps aux` on the box yielded... This isn't just poking at web servers to see what secrets they freely reveal, this is trespass.
- chavesn 12y ago
  Trespassing is a good analogy. Neither all laws or violations of laws are equal. On one hand, there are the vandals, or outright criminals, who are using and abusing my property for their gain to my detriment. On the other hand, there's a passerby who knows about the criminals in the area, knows no one else is looking for them, and trespasses my property because the trail led him onto it. Now that guy willingly alerts me to the criminals, offers an explanation of what he did on my property and how he found the criminals -- what should my response be? I know that technically he broke the law, and there are those who want to see anyone and everyone pay for their deeds, but in this situation, wouldn't a reasonable person possibly consider tracking down the criminals first before crying "trespassing!"
  - jMyles 12y ago
    It doesn't sound like this person trespassed at all, but merely traversed your land during his investigation. He didn't do any damage or remove anything, so what was the trespass?
    - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
      I wouldn't be happy at all if someone went into my cellar without my permission and told me that my gas line was weakening. Despite good intentions, trespass is trespass.
      - atmosx 12y ago
        What if his house was next to yours and he smelled a gas leak but wasn't sure, so his investigation led him to your cellar?
swasheck 12y ago
fortunately i've not trusted winzip binaries since the mid-90s
flashman 12y ago
Just to let you know, you can have a chocolate teapot: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29126161 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-2912...

philjohn 12y ago

TIL - people still use WinZip

ssw1n 12y ago
This ...
Someone1234 12y ago
It is surprising how many 90s tools remain popular today: WinZip, WinRar, WinAmp, CCleaner, Icq, Real Player, etc. People just get into using something and simply never stop. Then there's the comfort barrier to switching (e.g. I know how to use WinZip but 7Zip is new and unfamiliar). CCleaner is still popular with low level tech support types, which is quite ironic as it damages the Windows Registry on later versions of the OS. There is also built in tools (Disk Cleaner, Recycling Bin maximum size, auto-Defrag/Trim, etc) which accomplish most of the same things. Teachers use Real Player. Several nationalities (Russia?) use ICQ.
- sdegutis 12y ago
  To this day I can't figure out how ICQ ever became popular, but yes I can vouch that there are still people who use it and probably always will.
  - dzhiurgis 12y ago
    For some reason it was considered anonymous and safe from surveillance.
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    It originally became popular simply due to lack of competition. AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) was popular but full of ads and didn't offer many features. MSN Messenger (later "Live Messenger" ".Net Messenger Service") didn't exist yet (1999) and while Windows had something called Netmeeting it was simply terrible. ICQ technically came around before AIM, being released in 1996 Vs. 1997 but AIM hit the ground running as AOL hooked up their massive (then) subscriber base. So while AIM was a more popular service, ICQ became popular with a certain more savvy class of user (e.g. tech' nerds, who wanted more functionality, and something NOT tied to their email address). ICQ offered that. Less ads, more features, and slightly anonymous (ICQ numbers). ICQ sucks by todays' standards, but in 1996-1999 it was really competing with AIM. There's also Yahoo! Messenger that came out in 1998 which was fairly popular (particularly as an "AIM replacement"). ICQ just somehow remained popular in certain parts of the world for the same reason Facebook isn't going away: It reached a critical mass, now "everyone" is using it which means "everyone" has to continue using it...
    - whatusername 12y ago
      Don't forget that the A in AOL stands for 1/193 countries. In AU (yes - anecdote != data) -- friends I would chat with were all on ICQ - before switching over to msn. Never heard of AIM
      - sharpneli 12y ago
        Second datapoint. In FI everyone who did not use IRC used ICQ and then switched to MSN.
        dwd 12y ago
        Also AU and used ICQ; then MSN. Note there was a strong anti-AOL sentiment throughout the 90's.
- agildehaus 12y ago
  Can you point me to a description of CCleaner's problems? It's still my go-to tool for cleaning computers, and I've never had a problem or heard of anything major (besides the normal bugs that get fixed). It also isn't a 90s tool, being first released in 2003. What's your idea of a better alternative?
  - vkjv 12y ago
    Before anything else, I should mention that I haven't worked help desk in over 5 years. Back when I worked help desk, the most common reason for a completely FUBAR and need a re-install was that the user ran CCleaner on it.
    - cookiecaper 12y ago
      Your organization likely did something unconventional with the registry that made systems break when touched by CCleaner (perhaps a groupware tool, or perhaps the broken systems had already been FUBAR'd by intrusive software and CCleaner's attempt to fix that FUBAR triple-FUBAR'd it). That doesn't mean CCleaner's behavior is correct, but it's probably a situation the developers haven't been able to test against. For what it's worth, I've run CCleaner's registry cleaner on dozens of machines and never had a problem of any type, and I still use CCleaner sometimes because it's a simple way to clean the temp/junk files left by many common applications with one button click. I always feel a little nervous when I run the registry cleaner, and while I haven't noticed any problems, I also haven't noticed a meaningful improvement after running it either. I should probably stop doing it just for that reason.
      - Someone1234 12y ago
        > That doesn't mean CCleaner's behavior is correct, but it's probably a situation the developers haven't been able to test against. So reading between the lines, you're saying that CCleaner is a bad idea simply because they cannot possibly understand the registry well enough to make the changes that they're making. We agree completely. Honestly if people want to use CCleaner to do jump lists, file history, and caches (although that last one is misguided) then I'm all for it. There's very little chance anything will break with those (it is hard to screw up!). I just warn against the registry cleaner primarily, and just feel like with Disk Cleaner and Windows' automatic cleaning that has been integrated for a while you could live without using CCleaner (unless you still have a Windows 9x box).
- cdr 12y ago
  I see CCleaner on probably at least 50% of the desktops shown by people streaming on Twitch. Seems so odd to me. Then again, I used WinRAR up until probably 2010 or so, whenever ninite made it easier to install 7zip. A sort of related oddity is how often I see OpenOffice on the desktops in doctors offices - usually alongside Microst Office icons. I have no idea what they would use it for.
- computator 12y ago
  > CCleaner is still popular... which is quite ironic as it damages the Windows Registry CCleaner has two main use-cases: a performance tool (allegedly) and a privacy tool. You assume that CCleaner is popular because people think that it boosts performance. This was never my use-case and anyone that I've seen actually uses it as a privacy tool, i.e., to clean up browser history, delete caches, wipe free space, etc., to not expose what they've been looking at, searching for, and downloading. With respect to privacy, if I see someone using CCleaner, I recommend that they switch over to BleachBit[1] which is open source and which even Bruce Schneier swears by. I used both simultaneously for awhile on my Windows systems and found that BleachBit found many more privacy-sensitive files to erase than CCleaner. [1] http://bleachbit.sourceforge.net/ http://bleachbit.sourceforge.net/
  - Someone1234 12y ago
    If you're interested in privacy and have Windows 8 Pro, you can use Client Hyper-V and Differencing Disks to make what is effectively a "read only" system. You boot into the VM, do whatever it is you have to do, then shred the differential [0]. Alternatively just encrypt the VM[1]. Alternatively again just run a Linux "Live OS" from a DVD and pull the power to "wipe." Alternatively ad-infinitum make a Windows To Go Thumb Drive and smash it with a brick when you're done. [0] http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=WS.10).aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc720381(v=WS.10)... [1] http://www.virtualizationadmin.com/kbase/VirtualizationTips/ServerVirtualization/MicrosoftHyper-VTips/Security/DosandDontsofEncryptionwithHyper-V.html http://www.virtualizationadmin.com/kbase/VirtualizationTips/...
- maximumoverload 12y ago
  I am from Czech Republic. ICQ was popular here way more than in the rest of the world, but it got displaced by Facebook Messenger (and to some smaller extent Google Talk/Hangout/what's the name now). I have no idea about Russia or Israel, where it was too popular.
- bad_user 12y ago
  It's a little ironic, but I still find WinAmp to be the best audio player. I mean - all I want to do is to quickly setup a playlist out of a bunch of directories and eventually do searches in it, which is incredibly common at a party when you quickly assemble playlists from multiple sources. Other media players are completely retarded.

chatmasta 12y ago

The OP will go to prison? Seems a bit hyperbolic to me, without any sort of citation or basis for belief.

w-ll 12y ago
It probably would have been best to just notify Winzip. Telling the FBI you broke into a server to see if you could, and that you found that someone else had also broken in before you is just plain stupid.
- rbobby 12y ago
  Bank robber calling the cops to report the safe has already been cleaned out...
  - Mikushi 12y ago
    That would imply OP had malicious intentions, which he apparently did not.
    - nilved 12y ago
      Malice is in the eye of the beholder. He logged into a server he didn't own and ran commands without authorization. That is malicious from the perspective of the law.
      - derekp7 12y ago
        Out of curiosity, wouldn't this also apply to the security researcher at erratasec.com that did an earlier survey? That scan logged into peoples boxes and executed a ping going out. Now obviously there isn't any damage, but what legal theory is protecting these legit security researchers?
        thefreeman 12y ago
        Nothing is protecting them legally, and many people mentioned similar things on those threads. However the fact that this guy sent himself reverse shells and actively exploited the servers makes it much more likely that someone will try to prosecute him.

tantalor 12y ago

Contrary to his claim, OP is clearly not a white hat "ethical hacker", since he does not have consent from the owners of any of these systems. > they will not differentiate between this and black hat intrusion Should they? This reads like textbook unauthorized access to a computer system, > A quick `ps aux` on the box yielded... This isn't just poking at web servers to see what secrets they freely reveal, this is trespass.

chavesn 12y ago
Trespassing is a good analogy. Neither all laws or violations of laws are equal. On one hand, there are the vandals, or outright criminals, who are using and abusing my property for their gain to my detriment. On the other hand, there's a passerby who knows about the criminals in the area, knows no one else is looking for them, and trespasses my property because the trail led him onto it. Now that guy willingly alerts me to the criminals, offers an explanation of what he did on my property and how he found the criminals -- what should my response be? I know that technically he broke the law, and there are those who want to see anyone and everyone pay for their deeds, but in this situation, wouldn't a reasonable person possibly consider tracking down the criminals first before crying "trespassing!"
- jMyles 12y ago
  It doesn't sound like this person trespassed at all, but merely traversed your land during his investigation. He didn't do any damage or remove anything, so what was the trespass?
  - AnkhMorporkian 12y ago
    I wouldn't be happy at all if someone went into my cellar without my permission and told me that my gas line was weakening. Despite good intentions, trespass is trespass.
    - atmosx 12y ago
      What if his house was next to yours and he smelled a gas leak but wasn't sure, so his investigation led him to your cellar?

swasheck 12y ago

fortunately i've not trusted winzip binaries since the mid-90s

flashman 12y ago

Just to let you know, you can have a chocolate teapot: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29126161 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-2912...