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The thing is though you can do this today without the VR glasses. Sure the VR glasses offer a coolness factor, and I am excited for that, but I don't see the r

The thing is though you can do this today without the VR glasses. Sure the VR glasses offer a coolness factor, and I am excited for that, but I don't see the revolution here yet. My problem is that it lacks imagination. Let's just take our text editor over to the VR world. Not come up with a new method of interacting with code utilizing VR.

IanCal 12y ago
> The thing is though you can do this today without the VR glasses. Yes, and I think live coding is pretty cool. > but I don't see the revolution here yet. Neither do I, but I don't think it needs to be. It certainly didn't seem to be sold as that. That was part of the reason for my post actually, that people are alternately seeing this as the next big thing or falling short of some incredible goal. It's neither, it's just cool. > My problem is that it lacks imagination. Well feel free to create something else incredible, and I'll be happy to find that awesome as well. This doesn't hold anyone back, it doesn't stop anything and it isn't being billed as TheNewWave(tm), it's just an interesting experiment combining a few different bits of tech together. It's a drastic shame to see people poke holes in something just because it isn't world changing.
- nightski 12y ago
  You don't need to down vote if you disagree. I was contributing to the conversation. Either way, in my opinion it's valuable feedback. If I was working on something like this, I'd want to hear what people really thought. Not useless cheerleading. I did not poke holes - I gave suggestions. Look for alternate methods of input not just rehashing the same methods from a desktop. Also I am working on something on my own. Which is why I thought I'd give feedback. I encountered the same issues myself.
  - IanCal 12y ago
    > You don't need to down vote if you disagree. I'm not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so you can't downvote replies to your own comments (at least I can't, maybe there's a higher karma threshold where you can but I doubt it).
    - girvo 12y ago
      You can't straight away, but you can after a certain time threshold has passed. At least, that's how it works on my account!
    - nightski 12y ago
      If it wasn't you I apologize. I have no problems being down-voted if I am out of line but it is annoying when people just down-vote because they disagree.
e12e 12y ago
> ... I don't see the revolution here yet. I agree with your overall sentiment, but I also have an observation: I have the DK2 -- and while I haven't had a chance to play with this yet, I have been playing a little bit of the Elite: Dangerous beta. The revelation there, is that working headtracking makes working with a huge "display" feel very natural. You can only look at one (or a few) things at once anyway -- but with head-tracking you don't have to worry about lining up five 30" screens in order to keep track of everything -- having it all (sanely) mapped out in 3d actually works just as mundanely and boring and well as you'd expect. And that in itself is kind of a revelation. Suddenly you have almost unlimited screen real estate, that is even more naturally and intuitively accessible than multiple desktops (and I'm generally a great fan of xmonad-style tiling, no-full window managers with easily accessible multiple workspaces). Another "wow" factor for Elite was the fact that what seems like a kind of silly gimmick on a single screen -- that "holograms" pop up with info when you look at them -- actually works in VR. The one thing they did botch in Elite in the previous beta, was font-size -- the DK2 leaves "half-hd" per eye -- and that's not really enough to read "fine print". They sort-of fixed it in the new Beta just out -- but now the UI for space docks is "too wide" -- the text is more readable, but the "holo" should've been placed "further away" from you, so you don't have to move your head from side to side to read a line of text. I've yet to try it plain 2d -- I suspect it works fine on a regular screen. Anyway, the point is that even a completely boring an unimaginative use of VR for programming can actually be a minor revolution. Fully working gloves/hand tracking would be better -- maybe with just a "dummy" keyboard for touch input (I'm not convinced "drum on a tabletop, visual-tracking keyboard" is actually that usable for touch-typing -- at least not when your back-tick is at shift-two-places-right-of-zero and opening-curly-brace is at meta-7 etc -- as it is on a Norwegian layout). Finally -- immediate feedback certainly is nice -- and this is where the "big screen" effect of VR can really help. You can be effortlessly aware of both your evolving 3d model, and the text-representation of your code -- without having to have two screens, or switch between virtual workspaces.
- nightski 12y ago
  Thanks for this. I am really excited for the DK2 to arrive. I ordered it a bit late but it should ship soon. I did try one at PAX Prime, it was outstanding. You make some good points and I'll have to investigate further once I get the headset. Currently using the SDK and it just isn't the same.

IanCal 12y ago

> The thing is though you can do this today without the VR glasses. Yes, and I think live coding is pretty cool. > but I don't see the revolution here yet. Neither do I, but I don't think it needs to be. It certainly didn't seem to be sold as that. That was part of the reason for my post actually, that people are alternately seeing this as the next big thing or falling short of some incredible goal. It's neither, it's just cool. > My problem is that it lacks imagination. Well feel free to create something else incredible, and I'll be happy to find that awesome as well. This doesn't hold anyone back, it doesn't stop anything and it isn't being billed as TheNewWave(tm), it's just an interesting experiment combining a few different bits of tech together. It's a drastic shame to see people poke holes in something just because it isn't world changing.

nightski 12y ago
You don't need to down vote if you disagree. I was contributing to the conversation. Either way, in my opinion it's valuable feedback. If I was working on something like this, I'd want to hear what people really thought. Not useless cheerleading. I did not poke holes - I gave suggestions. Look for alternate methods of input not just rehashing the same methods from a desktop. Also I am working on something on my own. Which is why I thought I'd give feedback. I encountered the same issues myself.
- IanCal 12y ago
  > You don't need to down vote if you disagree. I'm not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so you can't downvote replies to your own comments (at least I can't, maybe there's a higher karma threshold where you can but I doubt it).
  - girvo 12y ago
    You can't straight away, but you can after a certain time threshold has passed. At least, that's how it works on my account!
  - nightski 12y ago
    If it wasn't you I apologize. I have no problems being down-voted if I am out of line but it is annoying when people just down-vote because they disagree.

e12e 12y ago

> ... I don't see the revolution here yet. I agree with your overall sentiment, but I also have an observation: I have the DK2 -- and while I haven't had a chance to play with this yet, I have been playing a little bit of the Elite: Dangerous beta. The revelation there, is that working headtracking makes working with a huge "display" feel very natural. You can only look at one (or a few) things at once anyway -- but with head-tracking you don't have to worry about lining up five 30" screens in order to keep track of everything -- having it all (sanely) mapped out in 3d actually works just as mundanely and boring and well as you'd expect. And that in itself is kind of a revelation. Suddenly you have almost unlimited screen real estate, that is even more naturally and intuitively accessible than multiple desktops (and I'm generally a great fan of xmonad-style tiling, no-full window managers with easily accessible multiple workspaces). Another "wow" factor for Elite was the fact that what seems like a kind of silly gimmick on a single screen -- that "holograms" pop up with info when you look at them -- actually works in VR. The one thing they did botch in Elite in the previous beta, was font-size -- the DK2 leaves "half-hd" per eye -- and that's not really enough to read "fine print". They sort-of fixed it in the new Beta just out -- but now the UI for space docks is "too wide" -- the text is more readable, but the "holo" should've been placed "further away" from you, so you don't have to move your head from side to side to read a line of text. I've yet to try it plain 2d -- I suspect it works fine on a regular screen. Anyway, the point is that even a completely boring an unimaginative use of VR for programming can actually be a minor revolution. Fully working gloves/hand tracking would be better -- maybe with just a "dummy" keyboard for touch input (I'm not convinced "drum on a tabletop, visual-tracking keyboard" is actually that usable for touch-typing -- at least not when your back-tick is at shift-two-places-right-of-zero and opening-curly-brace is at meta-7 etc -- as it is on a Norwegian layout). Finally -- immediate feedback certainly is nice -- and this is where the "big screen" effect of VR can really help. You can be effortlessly aware of both your evolving 3d model, and the text-representation of your code -- without having to have two screens, or switch between virtual workspaces.

nightski 12y ago
Thanks for this. I am really excited for the DK2 to arrive. I ordered it a bit late but it should ship soon. I did try one at PAX Prime, it was outstanding. You make some good points and I'll have to investigate further once I get the headset. Currently using the SDK and it just isn't the same.