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This is one of the most important questions in all the open source world, and yet, instead of one of the big-name writers of the hacker world bringing it to the
by jMyles 12y ago
This is one of the most important questions in all the open source world, and yet, instead of one of the big-name writers of the hacker world bringing it to the floor, it comes in the form of a question from someone hoping to earn $15-$20 an hour. It makes me sad.
gdiocarez: First and foremost, thank you for breaking the silence on this.
As for an answer: So, the world is weird. I generally bill $185 an hour as a spot rate. I have fairly little problem finding steady work at $100 or so on a steady basis. I tell you this because I think it's fairly typical for someone living in a major city in the US.
My hope, and I hope everyone's hope, is that the world will generally equalize around this range, or even higher. I have observed again and again that, each time I or a colleague makes a contribution of value, we create a dozen or so opportunities for like contributions.
Unlike the fossil fuel economy that characterized the industrial era, I surmise that the information age is somewhat sustainable as an exponential curve of economic possibility. This is a radical viewpoint I'll warn; many of my (otherwise seemingly reasonable) friends fear that "the music will stop" unexpectedly and that today will be one of "the good old days."
The truth is: nobody that I know knows the answer to your question. Price yourself aggressively and work hard. I can tongue-in-cheekly advise you to try to be lucky. So far, being born in an economic powerhouse (and in an economic, racial, and social position of privilege) has worked for me.
- gdiocarez 12y agoThank you for the insight. I'm still new to remote working and don't know about transaction and payments. Though most of my works is remote and my paycheck is given in person.
- instakill 12y agoHi gdiocarez, I cannot speak to your abilities because I haven't seen your code, but $20 an hour is absolutely achievable. I would strongly recommend that you do also take some courses to improve on your English. Good, unambiguous communication is crucial for remote work (I am remote from the rest of my team and bad communication costs so much time and effort). Improving your English will also help the perception your potential clients will have on you and your work. Good luck!
- itchyouch 12y agoSo much this. It's not just important to be okay at communication. I've had coworkers in the U.S. that were immigrants and it was absolutely painful to work with them to the point, where we actively just excluded them. We just found human cron-job tasks and relegated them to those tasks (unfairly, but better than laying them off). In things like software, where there are many many abstract concepts being thrown around, not being able to communicate will get one quickly out the door.
- uptownJimmy 12y agoGood advice. One thing I do know: "people skills" are as important in software as they are almost any place else. And in case it offers any perspective at all to the OP, I am working my way up from a disadvantaged place in US society, and I'm getting paid $20/hr to intern in my first programming job. I expect that to be $30/hr by the end of the year, then on from there. FWIW.
- gdiocarez 12y agoWhat books can you recommend to improve communication skills? Thank you also for pointing that out.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- tomjen3 12y agoI'm still new to remote working and don't know about transaction and payments. Ask somebody who works remote or pay an accountant. Heck failing that ask the company how they would prefer to pay you (this has the potential downside that the method they prefer is not likely to the the most optimal method from your perspective, but it is likely superior to not getting paid at all, i.e your current situation).
- BugBrother 12y agoSome people tell you this is before the fall of Rome because they have seen it before, after year 2000. (And those of us with grey in the hair can tell you of even older ones.) There were lots of talk about a new type of economy then, too... The computer job market has bubbles too, but not necessarily in phase with the general economy. And if there is a good job market with software while the general economy is in the toilet, lots of people will study computer science and you'll have a bloodbath like 12-14 years ago when the bubble burst. TL;DR: Winter is coming. :-) :-(
- tomjen3 12y ago>Unlike the fossil fuel economy that characterized the industrial era, I surmise that the information age is somewhat sustainable as an exponential curve of economic possibility. This is a radical viewpoint I'll warn; many of my (otherwise seemingly reasonable) friends fear that "the music will stop" unexpectedly and that today will be one of "the good old days." I had an insight the other day (while watching one of Hans Roslings videos): it is mathematically impossible to distinquish an S-curve from exponential growth until/unless that growth flatterns, just from the shape of the growth alone. The good news in case this is an S-curve and not exponential growth: we just stop widely growing, we don't peak and crash.
- mtrimpe 12y agoThere are also no indefinite exponential curves in nature. The right way to think about it is trying to figure out what the bounding resource (its eventual limit) might be.
- lotharbot 12y agoExponential curves have a constant derivative. Logistic (S) curves have a decreasing derivative. If you look closely, you can begin to distinguish the curves at around the 25% mark. Maybe even lower, if the data is really clean.
- andrewflnr 12y agoNot exactly. Exponential curves have exponential derivatives.
- lotharbot 12y agoYou are correct. Or as I should have stated it, exponential curves have derivatives in constant proportion to the curve -- so if you look at the change vs the current value, it will be a constant ratio. With a logistic (S) curve, the ratio of the change to the current value will decrease. By the time you get to around 25% of the maximum value, the difference should be visible.
- jotm 12y agoIt is not going to equalize around $100. It's going to be lower than that as more and more specialists from around the world enter the field. Indeed, these are the good old days, just like it was for many explorers and entrepreneurs in the past. The software world is also still (and always will be) dependent on the "real world", where fossil fuel is still key and will be for a long, long time. I have to say that you live in a bubble slightly above ~95% of the world, you are indeed very lucky - hopefully for the rest of your life.
- gngaman 12y agoAgreed, hoping for $100-$200/hr for all devs across the world is wishful thinking. When things 'level out', one would expect it to tend to the average, not the outliers.
- twic 12y agoIt will probably tend to the minimum. But the minimum is constantly rising, as the standard of living in the developing world rises. So it's not unreasonable to think it will level out around the current US rate. Indeed, eventually it will be a uniform $1000/hr, because of inflation. Then $10,000/hr, and so on.
- cbr 12y agoMuch easier to have this conversation in constant (inflation adjusted) dollars.
- danielweber 12y agoI heard this a decade ago, and maybe this time it will actually happen, but the third-world has yet to suck down the wages of domestic software developers.
- reedlaw 12y agoMy big question is how can software--particularly free software--create jobs? Take operating systems. With free alternatives the trend is towards commoditization and declining prices. Same goes for almost any category of desktop software. The only potentially increasing trend is in service, customization, etc.--all geared towards business productivity. Increased productivity may or may not result in net employment gain. In fact, for every programming job there may be manual jobs becoming obsolete. So what can sustain high hourly rates and create new jobs? One part of the answer must be increased specialization, but not everyone can become a specialist.