9 ms·

How Exercise May Protect Against Depression

191 points by ScottBurson 12y ago

JTon 12y ago
> In the meantime, if work and other pressures mount, it may be a good idea to go for a jog This is not new, nor exciting advice. However I do think it's sound. Personally speaking, exercise allows me to work harder and play harder. It acts as sort of a mental refresh and barrier. If my work stress starts to evade my relaxation time, it often overlaps with me skipping out at the gym
- Domenic_S 12y ago
  > This is not new, nor exciting advice. It wasn't meant to be. The article is titled "How Exercise May Protect Against Depression," with "how" being the exciting part. Pretty much everyone over the age of 25 has an exercise made me feel better, durrrrrrrrr story; seeing the science behind it is what makes this interesting.
- etiam 12y ago
  That is not new advice. By contrast the finding that well-trained muscles protect against depression by a mechanism involving breaking down kynurenine peripherally and thus preventing it from entering the brain is both new and in my opinion very exciting. After the fact it makes sense, but I would not have predicted it. Incidentally, kynurenic acid in the brain is also implicated in schizophrenia, which makes me wonder if this will have explanation value beyond depression as well. I find this an unexpected and delightful discovery.
LaurensBER 12y ago
It takes some time to find some exercise that works for you. I hated the gym, running bored me, I didn't really fit in with the fightsport crowd in my city (all started classes were filled young kids, you might have better luck in a bigger city!) but swimming has been awesome so far. I used to stay in shape by cycling to work everyday but over the years I have become fatter, slower, less attractive, depressed and far less sharp. I swim almost an hour everyday and during the weekends I sometimes go for 3-4 hours and it has done wonders for my depression, it also enhances your mental clarity and swimming is a great way to work out those hard recursion or architectural problems. I used to deal with overwhelming negative emotions in less constructive ways, some days I still swim to "destroy", endorphins also work great for emotional pain so after that I usually feel a lot better. I hear great things about climbing from other programmers. If you're depressed find something that you enjoy as a exercise, once you get the basics down it becomes a "flow" not much different from programming :) I also take some St John's Wort, some vitamin D and I replaced most breakfasts with Soylent. So far it has done wonders in fighting my depression.
- comrh 12y ago
  PSA: Talk to a doctor about serotonin syndrome before trying St. John Wort if you take a SSRI.
- joelrunyon 12y ago
  > I replaced most breakfasts with Soylent. What were your breakfasts previously?
- crimsonalucard 12y ago
  Running isn't boring, boring is just an excuse. If you were really running or if you were really exercising you'd be in too much pain to be bored. Running is a form of self torture pure and simple. The people who tell you they enjoy running are really saying that they've disciplined themselves to master the pain. I mean, sure you get endorphins when you run, but the pain component of long distance running is far more intense then any high you can receive from endorphins. In essence people who truly exercise have conditioned themselves to the point where the negative effects of exercise become inconsequential and the benefits begin to outweigh the pain. Make no mistake. Real Exercise isn't about finding something you simply enjoy and love. It is very intense work and something that you need to learn to love; kind of like programming.
  - hkmurakami 12y ago
    With that definition, aren't all forms of exercise self-torture? After all, they all destroy your muscle cells.
    - crimsonalucard 12y ago
      Yeah, all forms of EFFECTIVE exercise are self torture. But I'm not talking about it in the physical sense where they damage your muscle cells. I'm talking about psychological pain where you get tired, out of breath, and your muscles begin to ache a bit.
      - Dewie 12y ago
heroku 12y ago
I experienced this on the extreme that I immediately freed of my depressive thoughts upon doing some push ups, that I started working out regularly. I know that it's a fact by experience.
etiam 12y ago
Press release and links here: http://ki.se/en/news/how-physical-exercise-protects-the-brain-from-stress-induced-depression http://ki.se/en/news/how-physical-exercise-protects-the-brai... (and previous post of the press release and links here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8385525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8385525)
rip747 12y ago
Yoga and long walks work great in fighting my depression. I don't know about the rest of you, but I notice a HUGE difference in my attitude and motivation if I sit for too long.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - ents 12y ago
    Isn't weightlifting just picking up heavy things? Isn't cycling just pedaling around a bike? Isn't running just walking fast? Try a yoga class, you'll see.
  - stronglikedan 12y ago
    > holding a particular position This is the "exercise" part. Your really don't realize how much effort it takes to hold a position until after you've had to hold it for a minute or two. It's my favorite form of exercise. It's not an endorphin rush, per se, but more of an endorphin creep. Also, in my experience, The endorphin high seems to last longer than a high intensity workout. To me, it's just as good, except, different.
    - hkmurakami 12y ago
      Exactly. Even a basic front plank hold for 60 seconds will be excruciatingly difficult for an untrained person. (and exceedingly satisfying when you are able to do longer and longer periods as you train.)
  - jmcmichael 12y ago
    If you really want to push your body to its limit, try a Bikram yoga (or any hot yoga) class. I was in pretty good shape when I started and it took me almost 6 months before I could even attempt to complete all the asanas (and about the first 10 classes I felt like I came close to passing out a few times). I've been practicing now for 6 years and still have a long way to go before I feel I'll have mastered the asanas. It easily meets or exceeds the impact that weightlifting has on my body.
stefanocutello 12y ago
I learned that's true thanks to this app http://human.co http://human.co and their simple concept: move 30mins or more every day to stay healthy (the #daily30), inspired by "23 and 1/2 hours: What is the single best thing we can do for our health?" by D. Mike Evans
renn 12y ago
Exercise, and in particular 30 minutes or more, every day, has been successful as one of the best forms of preventive medicine out there. It's highly effective against progression in depression, anxiety, knee arthritis, frank diabetes, and many other illnesses. One of the best videos that illustrates the benefits is 23 1/2 by Dr. Mike Evans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo We based our app on the notion of moving at least 30 minutes every day. We've had very positive feedback from people that cope with depression and/or anxiety. Would love your feedback: http://human.co http://human.co
Mz 12y ago
Excerpt: So the scientists looked for which processes were being most notably intensified in their PGC-1alpha1-rich mice. They found one in particular, involving a substance called kynurenine that accumulates in human and animal bloodstreams after stress. Kynurenine can pass the blood-brain barrier and, in animal studies, has been shown to cause damaging inflammation in the brain, leading, it is thought, to depression. But in the mice with high levels of PGC-1alpha1, the kynurenine produced by stress was set upon almost immediately by another protein expressed in response to signals from the PGC-1alpha1. This protein changed the kynurenine, breaking it into its component parts, which, interestingly, could not pass the blood-brain barrier. I imagine this is hardly the whole story, but it is interesting that they were able to identify a specific component. Something else that I would think is relevant is that the lymphatic system is dramatically sped up during exercise. It is pumped by you working your muscles rather than by your circulatory system, even though it is kind of part of your circulatory system (because lymph is basically fluid from the blood but with major blood components removed). (Though the brain has a separate mechanism: It moves lymph when you sleep.)
guiambros 12y ago
I'm glad to see the article, but if you're interested in the effects of physical exercise over the brain in general - not only depression, but brain development, neuronal growth, memory retention, degenerative brain diseases - you should read "Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain" [1]. It's a great book, summarizing all the studies and discoveries around brain health and the link with body biochemistry and exercise over the past 50 years. Not the typical common wisdom of "exercise is good for you", but a more serious and deep analysis of why it is good, and what exactly it does to your brain, at a biochemical level. As a person that always knew how much exercise is important for the body - but always hated exercising - this book gave a reason to pause and re-think my priorities. If you care about your brain, read at least the sample chapters and see if you like it. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B...
- camillomiller 12y ago
  As a person who always hated exercising, too, I can tell you that it's just a matter of starting and then stick to it until "something" clicks and makes you crave exercise like you crave food or sleep. If knowing what's the neurological basis that makes exercise so useful for our body, is what keeps you going, that's great. But really, any reason will do. My reason: proving to myself that I have a stronger will strength than I used to think and believe for so many years. When I don't exercise (for me that means also practicing Ashtanga Yoga) for like a week because of external reasons, I experienced a deep slash of depression -- real depression, like seeing everything black, totally unmotivated self-loathing and so forth. Luckily, it's just a matter of getting a good hour of intense excercise and the day after I'm back on track. There's definitively something chemical going on there. Thanks for the book suggestion
  - zura 12y ago
    Can anyone comment if just walking counts for exercising?
    - timroman 12y ago
a8da6b0c91d 12y ago
If you try to work out much when tired and stressed you're just going to increase the odds of getting sick. The article makes the mistake of suggesting exercise when already stressed. I think the point here is that fitness is protective. It's too late if you're already feeling a bit burned out. The thing to do in that case is restful relaxation.
- Geee 12y ago
  Source? I don't think that's true at all.
DanBC 12y ago
We need to be careful with what they're saying. > Scientists have also known that exercise seems to cushion against depression. Working out somehow makes people and animals emotionally resilient, Many people translate this to mean "exercise can treat depression". Here's one meta analysis that suggests exercise is a weak treatment for depression. http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for... > Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. But also > The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. > Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. > Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. I'd like to see better research that controls for things like social networks (a person might be more likely to go jogging with friends than alone, for example) and other confounding factors.
- stonemetal 12y ago
  is no more effective than the best possible treatment sounds pretty good especially when used in conjunction with rather than instead of.
- lingben 12y ago
  there are other studies including meta studies which show that exercise is an effective treatment with the lowest rate of relapse: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/for-depression-prescribing-exercise-before-medication/284587/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/for-depres... we need more studies
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Did you read any of the research quoted by the Atlantic article, or just the Atlantic article? And did you bother to read the link I posted? Because it says > The reviewers recommend that future research should look in more detail at what types of exercise could most benefit people with depression, and the number and duration of sessions which are of most benefit. Further larger trials are needed to find out whether exercise is as effective as antidepressants or psychological treatments
stretchwithme 12y ago
I've found that establishing a habit of exercise first thing after climbing out of bed really works. The important thing is to not "break the chain". Even if you can only exercise a little on a particular day, do that little bit. I decided to do burpees every day last April and have only missed it 2 days while on vacation. Based on this article though, I'm going to change it to something more aerobic. I think burpees are so intense I can't do them for long enough to get the aerobic benefit.
thro1237 12y ago
I started an exercise regime (basically in an elliptical machine for 30 mins every day) six months back. I hurt my kness and it still hurts. I will see a sports doctor -- but any suggestions?
justntime 12y ago
This is definitely not monumentally new advice but it is something that many people overlook when people are diagnosed with depression. When people exercise it creates habits, these habits become something that allow people to have something positive to look forward to during their daily routine. Depressions roots are tied to falling into a cycle of not doing things, by breaking that cycle you give yourself an opportunity to decrease your depression. I'm the founder of a health and wellness startup that hopes to help people create habits and personalize their health regimes. From the Harvard article, "How does exercise relieve depression? For many years, experts have known that exercise enhances the action of endorphins, chemicals that circulate throughout the body. Endorphins improve natural immunity and reduce the perception of pain. They may also serve to improve mood. Another theory is that exercise stimulates the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which may directly improve mood." To read more check here. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Exercise-and-Depression-report-excerpt.htm http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Exercise-and-Depressi...

191 points by ScottBurson 12y ago

JTon 12y ago

> In the meantime, if work and other pressures mount, it may be a good idea to go for a jog This is not new, nor exciting advice. However I do think it's sound. Personally speaking, exercise allows me to work harder and play harder. It acts as sort of a mental refresh and barrier. If my work stress starts to evade my relaxation time, it often overlaps with me skipping out at the gym

Domenic_S 12y ago
> This is not new, nor exciting advice. It wasn't meant to be. The article is titled "How Exercise May Protect Against Depression," with "how" being the exciting part. Pretty much everyone over the age of 25 has an exercise made me feel better, durrrrrrrrr story; seeing the science behind it is what makes this interesting.
etiam 12y ago
That is not new advice. By contrast the finding that well-trained muscles protect against depression by a mechanism involving breaking down kynurenine peripherally and thus preventing it from entering the brain is both new and in my opinion very exciting. After the fact it makes sense, but I would not have predicted it. Incidentally, kynurenic acid in the brain is also implicated in schizophrenia, which makes me wonder if this will have explanation value beyond depression as well. I find this an unexpected and delightful discovery.

LaurensBER 12y ago

It takes some time to find some exercise that works for you. I hated the gym, running bored me, I didn't really fit in with the fightsport crowd in my city (all started classes were filled young kids, you might have better luck in a bigger city!) but swimming has been awesome so far. I used to stay in shape by cycling to work everyday but over the years I have become fatter, slower, less attractive, depressed and far less sharp. I swim almost an hour everyday and during the weekends I sometimes go for 3-4 hours and it has done wonders for my depression, it also enhances your mental clarity and swimming is a great way to work out those hard recursion or architectural problems. I used to deal with overwhelming negative emotions in less constructive ways, some days I still swim to "destroy", endorphins also work great for emotional pain so after that I usually feel a lot better. I hear great things about climbing from other programmers. If you're depressed find something that you enjoy as a exercise, once you get the basics down it becomes a "flow" not much different from programming :) I also take some St John's Wort, some vitamin D and I replaced most breakfasts with Soylent. So far it has done wonders in fighting my depression.

comrh 12y ago
PSA: Talk to a doctor about serotonin syndrome before trying St. John Wort if you take a SSRI.
joelrunyon 12y ago
> I replaced most breakfasts with Soylent. What were your breakfasts previously?
crimsonalucard 12y ago
Running isn't boring, boring is just an excuse. If you were really running or if you were really exercising you'd be in too much pain to be bored. Running is a form of self torture pure and simple. The people who tell you they enjoy running are really saying that they've disciplined themselves to master the pain. I mean, sure you get endorphins when you run, but the pain component of long distance running is far more intense then any high you can receive from endorphins. In essence people who truly exercise have conditioned themselves to the point where the negative effects of exercise become inconsequential and the benefits begin to outweigh the pain. Make no mistake. Real Exercise isn't about finding something you simply enjoy and love. It is very intense work and something that you need to learn to love; kind of like programming.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  With that definition, aren't all forms of exercise self-torture? After all, they all destroy your muscle cells.
  - crimsonalucard 12y ago
    Yeah, all forms of EFFECTIVE exercise are self torture. But I'm not talking about it in the physical sense where they damage your muscle cells. I'm talking about psychological pain where you get tired, out of breath, and your muscles begin to ache a bit.
    - Dewie 12y ago

heroku 12y ago

I experienced this on the extreme that I immediately freed of my depressive thoughts upon doing some push ups, that I started working out regularly. I know that it's a fact by experience.

etiam 12y ago

Press release and links here: http://ki.se/en/news/how-physical-exercise-protects-the-brain-from-stress-induced-depression http://ki.se/en/news/how-physical-exercise-protects-the-brai... (and previous post of the press release and links here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8385525 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8385525)

rip747 12y ago

Yoga and long walks work great in fighting my depression. I don't know about the rest of you, but I notice a HUGE difference in my attitude and motivation if I sit for too long.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- ents 12y ago
  Isn't weightlifting just picking up heavy things? Isn't cycling just pedaling around a bike? Isn't running just walking fast? Try a yoga class, you'll see.
- stronglikedan 12y ago
  > holding a particular position This is the "exercise" part. Your really don't realize how much effort it takes to hold a position until after you've had to hold it for a minute or two. It's my favorite form of exercise. It's not an endorphin rush, per se, but more of an endorphin creep. Also, in my experience, The endorphin high seems to last longer than a high intensity workout. To me, it's just as good, except, different.
  - hkmurakami 12y ago
    Exactly. Even a basic front plank hold for 60 seconds will be excruciatingly difficult for an untrained person. (and exceedingly satisfying when you are able to do longer and longer periods as you train.)
- jmcmichael 12y ago
  If you really want to push your body to its limit, try a Bikram yoga (or any hot yoga) class. I was in pretty good shape when I started and it took me almost 6 months before I could even attempt to complete all the asanas (and about the first 10 classes I felt like I came close to passing out a few times). I've been practicing now for 6 years and still have a long way to go before I feel I'll have mastered the asanas. It easily meets or exceeds the impact that weightlifting has on my body.

stefanocutello 12y ago

I learned that's true thanks to this app http://human.co http://human.co and their simple concept: move 30mins or more every day to stay healthy (the #daily30), inspired by "23 and 1/2 hours: What is the single best thing we can do for our health?" by D. Mike Evans

renn 12y ago

Exercise, and in particular 30 minutes or more, every day, has been successful as one of the best forms of preventive medicine out there. It's highly effective against progression in depression, anxiety, knee arthritis, frank diabetes, and many other illnesses. One of the best videos that illustrates the benefits is 23 1/2 by Dr. Mike Evans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo We based our app on the notion of moving at least 30 minutes every day. We've had very positive feedback from people that cope with depression and/or anxiety. Would love your feedback: http://human.co http://human.co

Mz 12y ago

Excerpt: So the scientists looked for which processes were being most notably intensified in their PGC-1alpha1-rich mice. They found one in particular, involving a substance called kynurenine that accumulates in human and animal bloodstreams after stress. Kynurenine can pass the blood-brain barrier and, in animal studies, has been shown to cause damaging inflammation in the brain, leading, it is thought, to depression. But in the mice with high levels of PGC-1alpha1, the kynurenine produced by stress was set upon almost immediately by another protein expressed in response to signals from the PGC-1alpha1. This protein changed the kynurenine, breaking it into its component parts, which, interestingly, could not pass the blood-brain barrier. I imagine this is hardly the whole story, but it is interesting that they were able to identify a specific component. Something else that I would think is relevant is that the lymphatic system is dramatically sped up during exercise. It is pumped by you working your muscles rather than by your circulatory system, even though it is kind of part of your circulatory system (because lymph is basically fluid from the blood but with major blood components removed). (Though the brain has a separate mechanism: It moves lymph when you sleep.)

guiambros 12y ago

I'm glad to see the article, but if you're interested in the effects of physical exercise over the brain in general - not only depression, but brain development, neuronal growth, memory retention, degenerative brain diseases - you should read "Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain" [1]. It's a great book, summarizing all the studies and discoveries around brain health and the link with body biochemistry and exercise over the past 50 years. Not the typical common wisdom of "exercise is good for you", but a more serious and deep analysis of why it is good, and what exactly it does to your brain, at a biochemical level. As a person that always knew how much exercise is important for the body - but always hated exercising - this book gave a reason to pause and re-think my priorities. If you care about your brain, read at least the sample chapters and see if you like it. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B...

camillomiller 12y ago
As a person who always hated exercising, too, I can tell you that it's just a matter of starting and then stick to it until "something" clicks and makes you crave exercise like you crave food or sleep. If knowing what's the neurological basis that makes exercise so useful for our body, is what keeps you going, that's great. But really, any reason will do. My reason: proving to myself that I have a stronger will strength than I used to think and believe for so many years. When I don't exercise (for me that means also practicing Ashtanga Yoga) for like a week because of external reasons, I experienced a deep slash of depression -- real depression, like seeing everything black, totally unmotivated self-loathing and so forth. Luckily, it's just a matter of getting a good hour of intense excercise and the day after I'm back on track. There's definitively something chemical going on there. Thanks for the book suggestion
- zura 12y ago
  Can anyone comment if just walking counts for exercising?
  - timroman 12y ago

a8da6b0c91d 12y ago

If you try to work out much when tired and stressed you're just going to increase the odds of getting sick. The article makes the mistake of suggesting exercise when already stressed. I think the point here is that fitness is protective. It's too late if you're already feeling a bit burned out. The thing to do in that case is restful relaxation.

Geee 12y ago
Source? I don't think that's true at all.

DanBC 12y ago

We need to be careful with what they're saying. > Scientists have also known that exercise seems to cushion against depression. Working out somehow makes people and animals emotionally resilient, Many people translate this to mean "exercise can treat depression". Here's one meta analysis that suggests exercise is a weak treatment for depression. http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depression http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for... > Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression. But also > The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive. > Exercise is no more effective than antidepressants for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on a small number of studies. > Exercise is no more effective than psychological therapies for reducing symptoms of depression, although this conclusion is based on small number of studies. I'd like to see better research that controls for things like social networks (a person might be more likely to go jogging with friends than alone, for example) and other confounding factors.

stonemetal 12y ago
is no more effective than the best possible treatment sounds pretty good especially when used in conjunction with rather than instead of.
lingben 12y ago
there are other studies including meta studies which show that exercise is an effective treatment with the lowest rate of relapse: http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/for-depression-prescribing-exercise-before-medication/284587/ http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/for-depres... we need more studies
- DanBC 12y ago
  Did you read any of the research quoted by the Atlantic article, or just the Atlantic article? And did you bother to read the link I posted? Because it says > The reviewers recommend that future research should look in more detail at what types of exercise could most benefit people with depression, and the number and duration of sessions which are of most benefit. Further larger trials are needed to find out whether exercise is as effective as antidepressants or psychological treatments

stretchwithme 12y ago

I've found that establishing a habit of exercise first thing after climbing out of bed really works. The important thing is to not "break the chain". Even if you can only exercise a little on a particular day, do that little bit. I decided to do burpees every day last April and have only missed it 2 days while on vacation. Based on this article though, I'm going to change it to something more aerobic. I think burpees are so intense I can't do them for long enough to get the aerobic benefit.

thro1237 12y ago

I started an exercise regime (basically in an elliptical machine for 30 mins every day) six months back. I hurt my kness and it still hurts. I will see a sports doctor -- but any suggestions?

justntime 12y ago

This is definitely not monumentally new advice but it is something that many people overlook when people are diagnosed with depression. When people exercise it creates habits, these habits become something that allow people to have something positive to look forward to during their daily routine. Depressions roots are tied to falling into a cycle of not doing things, by breaking that cycle you give yourself an opportunity to decrease your depression. I'm the founder of a health and wellness startup that hopes to help people create habits and personalize their health regimes. From the Harvard article, "How does exercise relieve depression? For many years, experts have known that exercise enhances the action of endorphins, chemicals that circulate throughout the body. Endorphins improve natural immunity and reduce the perception of pain. They may also serve to improve mood. Another theory is that exercise stimulates the neurotransmitter norepinephrine, which may directly improve mood." To read more check here. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Exercise-and-Depression-report-excerpt.htm http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Exercise-and-Depressi...