5 ms·

>dorms If efficiently managed, dorms shouldn't represent a significant burden on students above the price of living in off-campus housing. >restaurants Gener

>dorms If efficiently managed, dorms shouldn't represent a significant burden on students above the price of living in off-campus housing. >restaurants Generally make a profit. >coffee shops Generally make a profit while employing unskilled students. >fitness clubs Okay, these are probably excessive, but fitness is fairly important. >green spaces everywhere I'd be really surprised if this accounted for an appreciable percentage of institutional expenses, except maybe if the campus was located somewhere with very expensive real estate. I'm guessing that the real story is that German universities bring in a lot more taxpayer money and employ fewer people.

kenko 12y ago
It doesn't matter if restaurants, cafés, etc. generally make a profit; that's not what the university should be concerned with.
- seanmcdirmid 12y ago
  They don't run those, they generally contract them out to Sodexo or similar company. The only reason they are there is because students spend money on them. You should have more of a problem with student free spending ways than with the universities just providing for their habits.
  - sheltgor 12y ago
    Big problem with this. Particularly with dining plans, many of which don't refund at the end of the term/academic year and are required for the dorms. You want to be thrifty and only spend 600 or the 800 you had this spring? Too bad, you're going to have to splurge the last 200 somehow or you're not getting it back.
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      I was never rich enough to live on campus with a meal plan. But I lived in apartments provided by the university (UW) and they always had kitchens.
    - Genmutant 12y ago
      What is a dining plan?
      - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        When you live in a dorm on campus, you are required to buy a meal plan for meals, and they aren't cheap or flexible. This is why I couldn't afford to live in the dorms as an undergrad in America.
        Genmutant 12y ago
        So a meal plan is like an subscription to meals? Why don't they sell it normally? How much is each meal with that plan? In our Mensa at the university we pay between 1.50 and 4€ per meal (exclusive drinks).
        seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        You don't buy a meal, you buy a quarter/semester of meals. And they are generally priced in the $10/meal range.
      - superuser2 12y ago
        You pay $x,xxx per semester so that your student ID allows entry to any of the institution's dining halls any time during operating hours. Dining halls typically contain several stations with different kinds of food available at a buffet-style counter, and you can eat as much as you want. Some meal plans count entries; others are unlimited. The system has its drawbacks, but keep in mind that: - Dining halls primarily serve students who do not have access to (reasonable) kitchens. Forgoing dining halls would mean increasing the sqft/person ratio of the housing system. - It is probably best that students with low discretionary income aren't in a position where they feel obligated to skip meals to save money. - Dining halls are paid for by their customers. If you move to an off campus apartment (or even on-campus apartment-style housing), you are no longer obligated to pay in to the campus dining system. The biggest offense, to me, is that dining hall systems are usually contracted out to huge corporations like Sodexo and Aramark. Dining plans can average to $12/meal, but the quality is several times worse than what I could buy at a restaurant for $12. My dining halls also employ (generally poor) adults from the neighboring community. While I guess this is nice, it's a little weird that we're the ones eating and they're the ones being served. I'd much prefer that my university run its own dining halls, employ students to staff them, and not ask us to pay somebody's profit margin.
- superuser2 12y ago
  Whether you believe they're what a university should be concerned with or not (and that's just, like, your opinion, man) the fact that they turn a profit means you can't point to them as wasteful spending or a culprit for high tuition.
  - plantain 12y ago
    They might be profitable, but they may not be the best use of that money - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
  - lukeschlather 12y ago
    They are frequently granted monopolies and students are required to pay for them whether they want to or not, which means that they aren't subject to any market forces and costs spiral out of control. Frequently there isn't even a line-item you can point to on your bill, it's just swallowed up in general tuition.
thejdude 12y ago
German here who also studied abroad for a year (US state college). Overall, there are many similarities, but also differences. I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university, compared to Germany. Multiple-choice tests, not much background knowledge assumed. Very school-like system (instead of assuming students will learn some of the necessary background at home). I've seen different German universities, and indeed some of them might not offer a gym or on-campus dorms. In fact, often at least a few university buildings are spread out throughout the city, instead of being in a single connected campus area. My German university had some subsidized housing though, and there were also private student dorms and they were very cheap, unlike the US dorm which was IMHO quite expensive. I also had a small but nice gym at my German uni. Probably every German uni has a restaurant ("Mensa") which is often very cheap because of subsidies. Again, in the USA we had to buy expensive meal plans and overall it wasn't cheap at all. But I loved the connectedness of the US campus, the atmosphere, the greens. The whole campus culture gives you the opportunity to either have a great partying time or a great studying time - I've had a bit of both. But overall, in Germany I learned MUCH more of the technical stuff.
- mcv 12y ago
  Buildings spread out through the city seems to be a product of having older universities. The oldest Dutch universities have that too, whereas newer universities tend to have most buildings concentrated on a campus. I know of only one that has on-site dorms (TU Twente), but most do have affordable student housing in the vicinity (though never enough for all students). There's usually a cheap, student-oriented sport center connected to the university. University restaurants (also called "mensa" here) are pretty cheap, but quality is mediocre. Better cook your own dinner.
  - thejdude 12y ago
    Hm, I've heard many complain about the food quality at our mensa, and many never ate there, but overall my experience wasn't bad. No fancy restaurant quality, but better than typical prepared/frozen meals and not at all bad.

kenko 12y ago

It doesn't matter if restaurants, cafés, etc. generally make a profit; that's not what the university should be concerned with.

seanmcdirmid 12y ago
They don't run those, they generally contract them out to Sodexo or similar company. The only reason they are there is because students spend money on them. You should have more of a problem with student free spending ways than with the universities just providing for their habits.
- sheltgor 12y ago
  Big problem with this. Particularly with dining plans, many of which don't refund at the end of the term/academic year and are required for the dorms. You want to be thrifty and only spend 600 or the 800 you had this spring? Too bad, you're going to have to splurge the last 200 somehow or you're not getting it back.
  - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
    I was never rich enough to live on campus with a meal plan. But I lived in apartments provided by the university (UW) and they always had kitchens.
  - Genmutant 12y ago
    What is a dining plan?
    - seanmcdirmid 12y ago
      When you live in a dorm on campus, you are required to buy a meal plan for meals, and they aren't cheap or flexible. This is why I couldn't afford to live in the dorms as an undergrad in America.
      - Genmutant 12y ago
        So a meal plan is like an subscription to meals? Why don't they sell it normally? How much is each meal with that plan? In our Mensa at the university we pay between 1.50 and 4€ per meal (exclusive drinks).
        seanmcdirmid 12y ago
        You don't buy a meal, you buy a quarter/semester of meals. And they are generally priced in the $10/meal range.
    - superuser2 12y ago
      You pay $x,xxx per semester so that your student ID allows entry to any of the institution's dining halls any time during operating hours. Dining halls typically contain several stations with different kinds of food available at a buffet-style counter, and you can eat as much as you want. Some meal plans count entries; others are unlimited. The system has its drawbacks, but keep in mind that: - Dining halls primarily serve students who do not have access to (reasonable) kitchens. Forgoing dining halls would mean increasing the sqft/person ratio of the housing system. - It is probably best that students with low discretionary income aren't in a position where they feel obligated to skip meals to save money. - Dining halls are paid for by their customers. If you move to an off campus apartment (or even on-campus apartment-style housing), you are no longer obligated to pay in to the campus dining system. The biggest offense, to me, is that dining hall systems are usually contracted out to huge corporations like Sodexo and Aramark. Dining plans can average to $12/meal, but the quality is several times worse than what I could buy at a restaurant for $12. My dining halls also employ (generally poor) adults from the neighboring community. While I guess this is nice, it's a little weird that we're the ones eating and they're the ones being served. I'd much prefer that my university run its own dining halls, employ students to staff them, and not ask us to pay somebody's profit margin.
superuser2 12y ago
Whether you believe they're what a university should be concerned with or not (and that's just, like, your opinion, man) the fact that they turn a profit means you can't point to them as wasteful spending or a culprit for high tuition.
- plantain 12y ago
  They might be profitable, but they may not be the best use of that money - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost
- lukeschlather 12y ago
  They are frequently granted monopolies and students are required to pay for them whether they want to or not, which means that they aren't subject to any market forces and costs spiral out of control. Frequently there isn't even a line-item you can point to on your bill, it's just swallowed up in general tuition.

thejdude 12y ago

German here who also studied abroad for a year (US state college). Overall, there are many similarities, but also differences. I was surprised how freaking EASY everything was in the US university, compared to Germany. Multiple-choice tests, not much background knowledge assumed. Very school-like system (instead of assuming students will learn some of the necessary background at home). I've seen different German universities, and indeed some of them might not offer a gym or on-campus dorms. In fact, often at least a few university buildings are spread out throughout the city, instead of being in a single connected campus area. My German university had some subsidized housing though, and there were also private student dorms and they were very cheap, unlike the US dorm which was IMHO quite expensive. I also had a small but nice gym at my German uni. Probably every German uni has a restaurant ("Mensa") which is often very cheap because of subsidies. Again, in the USA we had to buy expensive meal plans and overall it wasn't cheap at all. But I loved the connectedness of the US campus, the atmosphere, the greens. The whole campus culture gives you the opportunity to either have a great partying time or a great studying time - I've had a bit of both. But overall, in Germany I learned MUCH more of the technical stuff.

mcv 12y ago
Buildings spread out through the city seems to be a product of having older universities. The oldest Dutch universities have that too, whereas newer universities tend to have most buildings concentrated on a campus. I know of only one that has on-site dorms (TU Twente), but most do have affordable student housing in the vicinity (though never enough for all students). There's usually a cheap, student-oriented sport center connected to the university. University restaurants (also called "mensa" here) are pretty cheap, but quality is mediocre. Better cook your own dinner.
- thejdude 12y ago
  Hm, I've heard many complain about the food quality at our mensa, and many never ate there, but overall my experience wasn't bad. No fancy restaurant quality, but better than typical prepared/frozen meals and not at all bad.