6 ms·

I thought it was interesting with this discussion in mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8394136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8394136 As other c

by MrJagil 12y ago

I thought it was interesting with this discussion in mind: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8394136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8394136 As other countries have shown some socialist movements in recent years (Obamacare, weed legalization, Germany making universities free etc), we in Denmark, praised for equality and happiness, are tightening the screw. We are not studying for knowledge anymore, but for profits. Though I am Danish, I am not trying to complain or be overly emotional. It just seems very interesting that we're all, globally, moving towards the middle. Yes, I am painting with _very_ broad strokes.

taylodl 12y ago
At some point in time the University stopped being the place to gain knowledge and instead became a trade school to gain a job. It's a reflection of society's values: money and the things it buys is more important than knowledge. Maybe it always was and we were just kidding ourselves thinking we ever really valued knowledge. Anyway this will be interesting to see how it plays out.
- fennecfoxen 12y ago
  Well, let's be realistic. At some point in time the University also stopped being the place where privileged elites, noblemen and merchants and the like, sent their children (already destined for reasonably lucrative careers) to become better people and to appreciate refinement in things like Knowledge and Philosophy, rather than just in Money. It's now a really democratic institution, with large sums of taxpayer funding available to people from all walks of life. This is probably a net win, and it shouldn't be seen as ostentatiously degrading to pay some heed to the exigencies of The Real World and outcomes there. The question, naturally, is one of balance, how to avoid both "university as trade school" and ivory-tower head-in-the-clouds detachment from reality.
- jerf 12y ago
  It was when we decided to send everybody to University instead of just a certain set. A different group of people went in with different expectations. If you understand it properly it's hard to even call it wrong. As it is often easy for the elites to forget, knowledge-focused university training is a luxury, in the sense that we can only have it if we also have a solid enough social foundation that we have the excess resources to dedicate people to not-immediately-productive tasks. Lately I'd say our elites have done a fairly poor job tending the foundation.
- MrJagil 12y ago
  It just seems strange to me that despite swaths of evidence, people in position of power _still_ think in short terms. Though we all agree computer science is very important these days, who can deny the societal importance of philosophy, psychology etc despite the job market being narrower. Even fringe studies such as eskimology (the study of Eskimo's, and yes, you can study that in DK) will certainly have value in some way or another, same as going to the moon. Knowledge for knowledge's sake is important exactly because we don't know it's importance or value.
  - lordnacho 12y ago
    "It just seems strange to me that despite swaths of evidence, people in position of power _still_ think in short terms." Are you kidding me? There's an election every four years and under the current government there's been umpteen reshuffles. Politicians have to respond to incentives, I mean opinion polls. As a fellow Dane I am not surprised at all that our politicians, many of whom are only partway through (the same) degree when they are elected, would take the short view of things.
    - mkaziz 12y ago
      Does that mean the inability to think for the long term is a fundamental limitation of modern democracies?
      - lordnacho 12y ago
        Well, I don't know if it's fundamental. I hope not. Perhaps you could change the constitution somehow. You could mess with term lengths or limit someone's tenure. Or you could have a part time parliament like in Switzerland. That way the politicians need normal jobs and are not dependent on the voters for a livelihood. The question is, once you have the current system, how are you going to get the incumbents to vote themselves out of work?
      - lordnacho 12y ago
        Well, I don't know if it's fundamental. I hope not. Perhaps you could change the constitution somehow. You could mess with term lengths or limit someone's tenure. Or you could have a part time parliament like in Switzerland. That way the politicians need normal jobs and are not dependent on the voters for a livelihood. The question is, once you have the current system, how are you going to get the incumbents to vote themselves out of work?
nextos 12y ago
At the risk of oversimplifying, I have also noted that Denmark is becoming less Scandinavian in many areas. Which is sad, as people running the country got so many things right in the 1980-2000s. Many KU or DTU departments that ranked amongst the very best have fallen apart. As a foreigner, I have sensed an alarming increase in nepotism.

by MrJagil 12y ago

taylodl 12y ago

At some point in time the University stopped being the place to gain knowledge and instead became a trade school to gain a job. It's a reflection of society's values: money and the things it buys is more important than knowledge. Maybe it always was and we were just kidding ourselves thinking we ever really valued knowledge. Anyway this will be interesting to see how it plays out.

fennecfoxen 12y ago
Well, let's be realistic. At some point in time the University also stopped being the place where privileged elites, noblemen and merchants and the like, sent their children (already destined for reasonably lucrative careers) to become better people and to appreciate refinement in things like Knowledge and Philosophy, rather than just in Money. It's now a really democratic institution, with large sums of taxpayer funding available to people from all walks of life. This is probably a net win, and it shouldn't be seen as ostentatiously degrading to pay some heed to the exigencies of The Real World and outcomes there. The question, naturally, is one of balance, how to avoid both "university as trade school" and ivory-tower head-in-the-clouds detachment from reality.
jerf 12y ago
It was when we decided to send everybody to University instead of just a certain set. A different group of people went in with different expectations. If you understand it properly it's hard to even call it wrong. As it is often easy for the elites to forget, knowledge-focused university training is a luxury, in the sense that we can only have it if we also have a solid enough social foundation that we have the excess resources to dedicate people to not-immediately-productive tasks. Lately I'd say our elites have done a fairly poor job tending the foundation.
MrJagil 12y ago
It just seems strange to me that despite swaths of evidence, people in position of power _still_ think in short terms. Though we all agree computer science is very important these days, who can deny the societal importance of philosophy, psychology etc despite the job market being narrower. Even fringe studies such as eskimology (the study of Eskimo's, and yes, you can study that in DK) will certainly have value in some way or another, same as going to the moon. Knowledge for knowledge's sake is important exactly because we don't know it's importance or value.
- lordnacho 12y ago
  "It just seems strange to me that despite swaths of evidence, people in position of power _still_ think in short terms." Are you kidding me? There's an election every four years and under the current government there's been umpteen reshuffles. Politicians have to respond to incentives, I mean opinion polls. As a fellow Dane I am not surprised at all that our politicians, many of whom are only partway through (the same) degree when they are elected, would take the short view of things.
  - mkaziz 12y ago
    Does that mean the inability to think for the long term is a fundamental limitation of modern democracies?
    - lordnacho 12y ago
      Well, I don't know if it's fundamental. I hope not. Perhaps you could change the constitution somehow. You could mess with term lengths or limit someone's tenure. Or you could have a part time parliament like in Switzerland. That way the politicians need normal jobs and are not dependent on the voters for a livelihood. The question is, once you have the current system, how are you going to get the incumbents to vote themselves out of work?
    - lordnacho 12y ago
      Well, I don't know if it's fundamental. I hope not. Perhaps you could change the constitution somehow. You could mess with term lengths or limit someone's tenure. Or you could have a part time parliament like in Switzerland. That way the politicians need normal jobs and are not dependent on the voters for a livelihood. The question is, once you have the current system, how are you going to get the incumbents to vote themselves out of work?

nextos 12y ago

At the risk of oversimplifying, I have also noted that Denmark is becoming less Scandinavian in many areas. Which is sad, as people running the country got so many things right in the 1980-2000s. Many KU or DTU departments that ranked amongst the very best have fallen apart. As a foreigner, I have sensed an alarming increase in nepotism.