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So will I get a nastygram if I buy 10 of these and push the whole 1TB every month? Edit: So their AUP[1] is full of a lot of crappy policies. Not allowed to u

by aroch 12y ago

So will I get a nastygram if I buy 10 of these and push the whole 1TB every month? Edit: So their AUP[1] is full of a lot of crappy policies. Not allowed to use all the RAM you're assigned. Not supposed to use all the bandwidth you're assigned. Not supposed to use all the CPU you're assigned. No crons or background services -- what the fuck? No IRC, TOR, or p2p activity. They have an obscenity/morality clause. Cannot do any webdev that uses custom headers -- would even suggest that running wget or curl with a --user-agent flag is in violation. Edit2: And they require a valid address and phone number to even register. Screw off. Please note that in order to protect the integrity of our cloud, Atlantic.Net verifies phone and other contact information prior to account activation. Please be certain to provide a working phone number where you can be reached in order to avoid delays in the account creation process. No thank you. [1]: https://www.atlantic.net/support/acceptable-use-policy/ https://www.atlantic.net/support/acceptable-use-policy/

d23 12y ago
I suppose there's always a catch, but no background services? Talk about useless...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
zeroDivisible 12y ago
I understand that with that price for providing a server, they need to do some user validation - thus the requirement for address and phone. But that issue with background services or cron - for that price, that's exactly why I'd consider their service. May I know what might be the reason why they don't allow this?
- aroch 12y ago
  > they need to do some user validation Nonsense. There are plenty of cheap hosts that don't do that sort of validation. >May I know what might be the reason why they don't allow this? Either they copypasta'd a boilerplate AUP -- in which case they're inept. Or they don't know how to properly virtualize and manage those provisions -- in which case they're also inept.
  - derefr 12y ago
    > Nonsense. There are plenty of cheap hosts that don't do that sort of validation. And then their users run warez hosts and botnet slaves, which then get DDoSed, saturating their neighbors' links. No matter how well you virtualize and manage your provisions, if one user has caused your incoming 10G to be saturated on layer 2, there's not much you can do at layer 3 to QoS that. Personally, the combination of "nearly free" and "personally identifiable such that there won't be people translating 'cheap' into 'good for one-off masks for illicit activity'" is a real selling point to me.
    - aroch 12y ago
      They, apparently, own their own datacenters and tout HIPAA compliant hosting. If they can't deal with incoming DoS traffic at the edge of their network I would be concerned... People who run botnet slaves large enough to get DDoSed by their fellow botnet masters are smart enough to own Voip numbers for verification. The verification keeps 12year olds off not really anyone else. But it also stops legitimate users from signing up.
    - lsc 12y ago
      >No matter how well you virtualize and manage your provisions, if one user has caused your incoming 10G to be saturated on layer 2, there's not much you can do at layer 3 to QoS that. well, you can blackhole the target. Essentially, you tell your upstream to drop all traffic to one of your /32s (the one being targeted) at it's upstream. It finishes the job for the attacker, which is sad, but so long as you are willing to lose the customer in question, it solves the problem for you. For details of how to set this up if you are a he.net bandwidth customer, see: http://www.he.net/adm/blackhole.html http://www.he.net/adm/blackhole.html nearly all other bandwidth providers provide similar facilities; there are a few other things you can do to make this sort of thing more robust. But the point is that there are things you can do about incoming DDoS attacks... if you are willing to kill all traffic to the target IP address. I mean, for most ISPs this isn't automated... in my case, my pager goes off; I log into my quagga box, and I start typing. So you still see downtime, and yeah, you want to avoid it. But there are things that can be done.
petercooper 12y ago
In their AUP, they have headings followed by full explanations. Under their "obscene materials" section, they specifically only talk about child pornography, which seems fair enough. I get the impression they've reused this AUP from a shared hosting environment though, as banning CGI scripts, "chat rooms", and background services are not things practical to police on VPSes anyway but are commonly policed on shared hosting. Statements like "Any database stored on Atlantic.Net servers shall be limited in size to 50% of the total disk space allotted for a particular domain" seem to back up this hunch, since it's talking about space for a "domain" and not a VPS or server. I think they need to improve their AUP as I'm not convinced that it's what they intend for VPS services, too much of it doesn't make sense for that sort of environment.
- aroch 12y ago
  If they borrowed liberally (ie copy and pasted) an existing AUP from some one else (typos and errors included) that doesn't even apply to their services, they don't deserve the ¢99. That subsection is a morality clause, regardless of their explanatory blurb.
- mp99e99 12y ago
  Your right. I am going to work on this tomorrow, it was adapted from a prior business model. Thanks for pointing this out!
  - joshmn 12y ago
    > Your right. His right what? I'm only making this jab because, like another user pointed out, there's an unprofessional amount of grammatical and typographical errors in your copy. I respect you guys, and one of my friends has a bunch of cages with Atlantic. But not everyone has that connection or the wherewithal.
    - spb 12y ago
      > there's an unprofessional amount of grammatical and typographical errors in your copy You mean "an unprofessional number of grammatical and typographical errors"
biot 12y ago
These kinds of policies are unfortunately commonplace and largely ignored. Gandi.net, which incidentally powers Amazon's Route 53 domain registration, requires that you agree to their "good moral standards" [0]. Gandi reserves the right to shut down your services without notice if, among many other reasons, they in their sole discretion deem you are doing anything deviant, you're not respecting someone's honor, or if the content isn't appropriate to each person's sensibility... where "each person" can be any of the millions of users you have using your services. [0] http://www.gandi.net/static/contracts/en/g2/pdf/MSA-1.3-EN.pdf http://www.gandi.net/static/contracts/en/g2/pdf/MSA-1.3-EN.p... (Note that this is the English copy of their rules, which is not binding. You are bound to the French version.)
- ehPReth 12y ago
  Yuck. What other providers would you recommend that don't have such in their ToS?
mp99e99 12y ago
Hi, The spirit of this is to avoid abuse on our cloud. If you don't feel comfortable providing us with contact information, we're probably not the place for you. I'm working on the AUP tomorrow, the cron/background services doesn't make sense or the RAM.
- aroch 12y ago
  So you tried to launch this with great fanfare and couldn't be bothered to review your AUP? Or the copy in most sections of your site (typos, unmatched tenses, random spaces or lack thereof)? Why should I trust you with my information if you can't even handle your own? What kind of abuse do you think it is preventing? How does it prevent abuse from anyone but the least motivated abuser? If I wanted to abuse your service, I could pay people $0.50 on mechanical turk to register accounts for me (indeed this is a fairly common low-skill-low-reward task on mturk). I'm sorry but this plus the launch of your HIPAA hosting, which was also plagued by typos and wrong ToS, doesn't inspire any sort of confidence in your abilities at Atlantic.net.
  - icedchai 12y ago
    It's sad that nobody reads AUPs, not even the people who write (or rather, copy/paste) them.
  - visarga 12y ago
    > If I wanted to abuse your service, I could pay people $0.50 on mechanical turk to register accounts for me LOL. You want to use 1 petabyte for cheap?
    - bmelton 12y ago
      They're offering a Terabyte for 0.99 cents. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to assume that they'd be most attractive to people who wanted lots of capacity for a low price. If using the service that Atlantic is offering is going to somehow bankrupt them, then perhaps they shouldn't offer it.
ekianjo 12y ago
Basically you'd be better using this for static pages hosting only...
Sami_Lehtinen 12y ago
If you need cheap bandwidth, OVH is better option. https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-classic.xml https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-classic.xml More memory, more bandwidth. If talking about DO comptition, Vultr is also worth of chekcing out. https://www.vultr.com/pricing/ https://www.vultr.com/pricing/
- aroch 12y ago
  I don't need cheap BW but if they're going to offer it, is it a real offer it a bullshit rope people in offer? I have 20-25 "real" servers and a handful of VPSs from (good) providers that fulfill my needs well. OVH's CEO, Oles, doesn't care about their big clients and happily changes the terms of their contract (in less than legal ways) to screw them. I'd rather not do business with them.
  - porker 12y ago
    > OVH's CEO, Oles, doesn't care about their big clients and happily changes the terms of their contract (in less than legal ways) to screw them. Source? Especially when accusing them of doing something illegal?
    - aroch 12y ago
      They will make changes to your contract, which you can only read after logging into your control panel, which you can't do unless you agree to your contract. Putting you in the catch22 of being unable to read your new contract without also agreeing to it before reading it. Look around their forums 2-3 years ago. Many of their HG and HGXL customers had their server's 10Gbps link limited to 300mbit, their bandwidth go from unlimited to metered, internal bandwidth change, their bandwidth go from ok to shitty quality (OVH's "volume" network). Similarly, if you had an entire rack of 10Gbps servers (SO ~5-8 servers) they limited the entire rack to 1 or 2Gbps.

by aroch 12y ago

d23 12y ago

I suppose there's always a catch, but no background services? Talk about useless...

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

zeroDivisible 12y ago

I understand that with that price for providing a server, they need to do some user validation - thus the requirement for address and phone. But that issue with background services or cron - for that price, that's exactly why I'd consider their service. May I know what might be the reason why they don't allow this?

aroch 12y ago
> they need to do some user validation Nonsense. There are plenty of cheap hosts that don't do that sort of validation. >May I know what might be the reason why they don't allow this? Either they copypasta'd a boilerplate AUP -- in which case they're inept. Or they don't know how to properly virtualize and manage those provisions -- in which case they're also inept.
- derefr 12y ago
  > Nonsense. There are plenty of cheap hosts that don't do that sort of validation. And then their users run warez hosts and botnet slaves, which then get DDoSed, saturating their neighbors' links. No matter how well you virtualize and manage your provisions, if one user has caused your incoming 10G to be saturated on layer 2, there's not much you can do at layer 3 to QoS that. Personally, the combination of "nearly free" and "personally identifiable such that there won't be people translating 'cheap' into 'good for one-off masks for illicit activity'" is a real selling point to me.
  - aroch 12y ago
    They, apparently, own their own datacenters and tout HIPAA compliant hosting. If they can't deal with incoming DoS traffic at the edge of their network I would be concerned... People who run botnet slaves large enough to get DDoSed by their fellow botnet masters are smart enough to own Voip numbers for verification. The verification keeps 12year olds off not really anyone else. But it also stops legitimate users from signing up.
  - lsc 12y ago
    >No matter how well you virtualize and manage your provisions, if one user has caused your incoming 10G to be saturated on layer 2, there's not much you can do at layer 3 to QoS that. well, you can blackhole the target. Essentially, you tell your upstream to drop all traffic to one of your /32s (the one being targeted) at it's upstream. It finishes the job for the attacker, which is sad, but so long as you are willing to lose the customer in question, it solves the problem for you. For details of how to set this up if you are a he.net bandwidth customer, see: http://www.he.net/adm/blackhole.html http://www.he.net/adm/blackhole.html nearly all other bandwidth providers provide similar facilities; there are a few other things you can do to make this sort of thing more robust. But the point is that there are things you can do about incoming DDoS attacks... if you are willing to kill all traffic to the target IP address. I mean, for most ISPs this isn't automated... in my case, my pager goes off; I log into my quagga box, and I start typing. So you still see downtime, and yeah, you want to avoid it. But there are things that can be done.

petercooper 12y ago

In their AUP, they have headings followed by full explanations. Under their "obscene materials" section, they specifically only talk about child pornography, which seems fair enough. I get the impression they've reused this AUP from a shared hosting environment though, as banning CGI scripts, "chat rooms", and background services are not things practical to police on VPSes anyway but are commonly policed on shared hosting. Statements like "Any database stored on Atlantic.Net servers shall be limited in size to 50% of the total disk space allotted for a particular domain" seem to back up this hunch, since it's talking about space for a "domain" and not a VPS or server. I think they need to improve their AUP as I'm not convinced that it's what they intend for VPS services, too much of it doesn't make sense for that sort of environment.

aroch 12y ago
If they borrowed liberally (ie copy and pasted) an existing AUP from some one else (typos and errors included) that doesn't even apply to their services, they don't deserve the ¢99. That subsection is a morality clause, regardless of their explanatory blurb.
mp99e99 12y ago
Your right. I am going to work on this tomorrow, it was adapted from a prior business model. Thanks for pointing this out!
- joshmn 12y ago
  > Your right. His right what? I'm only making this jab because, like another user pointed out, there's an unprofessional amount of grammatical and typographical errors in your copy. I respect you guys, and one of my friends has a bunch of cages with Atlantic. But not everyone has that connection or the wherewithal.
  - spb 12y ago
    > there's an unprofessional amount of grammatical and typographical errors in your copy You mean "an unprofessional number of grammatical and typographical errors"

biot 12y ago

These kinds of policies are unfortunately commonplace and largely ignored. Gandi.net, which incidentally powers Amazon's Route 53 domain registration, requires that you agree to their "good moral standards" [0]. Gandi reserves the right to shut down your services without notice if, among many other reasons, they in their sole discretion deem you are doing anything deviant, you're not respecting someone's honor, or if the content isn't appropriate to each person's sensibility... where "each person" can be any of the millions of users you have using your services. [0] http://www.gandi.net/static/contracts/en/g2/pdf/MSA-1.3-EN.pdf http://www.gandi.net/static/contracts/en/g2/pdf/MSA-1.3-EN.p... (Note that this is the English copy of their rules, which is not binding. You are bound to the French version.)

ehPReth 12y ago
Yuck. What other providers would you recommend that don't have such in their ToS?

mp99e99 12y ago

Hi, The spirit of this is to avoid abuse on our cloud. If you don't feel comfortable providing us with contact information, we're probably not the place for you. I'm working on the AUP tomorrow, the cron/background services doesn't make sense or the RAM.

aroch 12y ago
So you tried to launch this with great fanfare and couldn't be bothered to review your AUP? Or the copy in most sections of your site (typos, unmatched tenses, random spaces or lack thereof)? Why should I trust you with my information if you can't even handle your own? What kind of abuse do you think it is preventing? How does it prevent abuse from anyone but the least motivated abuser? If I wanted to abuse your service, I could pay people $0.50 on mechanical turk to register accounts for me (indeed this is a fairly common low-skill-low-reward task on mturk). I'm sorry but this plus the launch of your HIPAA hosting, which was also plagued by typos and wrong ToS, doesn't inspire any sort of confidence in your abilities at Atlantic.net.
- icedchai 12y ago
  It's sad that nobody reads AUPs, not even the people who write (or rather, copy/paste) them.
- visarga 12y ago
  > If I wanted to abuse your service, I could pay people $0.50 on mechanical turk to register accounts for me LOL. You want to use 1 petabyte for cheap?
  - bmelton 12y ago
    They're offering a Terabyte for 0.99 cents. It doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to assume that they'd be most attractive to people who wanted lots of capacity for a low price. If using the service that Atlantic is offering is going to somehow bankrupt them, then perhaps they shouldn't offer it.

ekianjo 12y ago

Basically you'd be better using this for static pages hosting only...

Sami_Lehtinen 12y ago

If you need cheap bandwidth, OVH is better option. https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-classic.xml https://www.ovh.co.uk/vps/vps-classic.xml More memory, more bandwidth. If talking about DO comptition, Vultr is also worth of chekcing out. https://www.vultr.com/pricing/ https://www.vultr.com/pricing/

aroch 12y ago
I don't need cheap BW but if they're going to offer it, is it a real offer it a bullshit rope people in offer? I have 20-25 "real" servers and a handful of VPSs from (good) providers that fulfill my needs well. OVH's CEO, Oles, doesn't care about their big clients and happily changes the terms of their contract (in less than legal ways) to screw them. I'd rather not do business with them.
- porker 12y ago
  > OVH's CEO, Oles, doesn't care about their big clients and happily changes the terms of their contract (in less than legal ways) to screw them. Source? Especially when accusing them of doing something illegal?
  - aroch 12y ago
    They will make changes to your contract, which you can only read after logging into your control panel, which you can't do unless you agree to your contract. Putting you in the catch22 of being unable to read your new contract without also agreeing to it before reading it. Look around their forums 2-3 years ago. Many of their HG and HGXL customers had their server's 10Gbps link limited to 300mbit, their bandwidth go from unlimited to metered, internal bandwidth change, their bandwidth go from ok to shitty quality (OVH's "volume" network). Similarly, if you had an entire rack of 10Gbps servers (SO ~5-8 servers) they limited the entire rack to 1 or 2Gbps.