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> neo-nazis with EU/NATO support Apart from Putin and his supporters, who says the Ukrainian government are neo-Nazis, and on what basis?

by dctoedt 12y ago

tedks 12y ago
The parent commenter may not have been talking about the Ukranian government, but of the numerous paramilitary nationalist groups that were instrumental in the protests that destabilized the previous regime. This is not a disputed fact. What's unknown is the degree to which those groups were supported by the EU or NATO, but the CIA has backed worse.
Mikeb85 12y ago
Right Sector and Svoboda both have representation in the new Ukrainian government. Both are right wing, fascist parties, and Right Sector even has paramilitary forces which engaged in attacks on political opponents, for instance the attack in Odessa in which they killed and burned alive dozens of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the Odessa trade union building... Prior to the 'revolution', Svoboda was denounced by many European nations and the EU. Now they form a fairly significant part of the Ukrainian government, and they were a large part of the 'revolution'...
- trhway 12y ago
  >Prior to the 'revolution', Svoboda was denounced by many European nations and the EU. yep. EU and US are at very interesting place. In order to fight Russia the EU and US are forced to support new Ukrainian government which performs "anti-terrorist operation" in the East (de-facto amounting to ethnic cleansing of Russians there) by mostly using the volunteer forces built of Right Sector and similar nationalist people. It it a big political skill to talk about freedoms, human rights, democracy (it is ok for Scotland to vote for separation, yet not ok for Crimea or Donetsk) and to not notice the stench coming from Kiev. And this new "lustration" law champined by Svoboda and making its successful way through the Ukranian parliament - setting up committees on "un-Ukranian activities" with people identified by the committees (read Russians and all opposition) banished from all the _elected_ , government, education, military, etc.. positions.
  - ydevnow 12y ago
    Since when did defending your territory became 'ethnic cleansing'? Remind me, who went over the border? In a Ukrainian conflict, why do we keep hearing about Russian soldiers? Oh, and by the way, where did the bodies of 4000 dead Russian soldiers go? Wait, how did they get to Ukraine in the first place? http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/27/rights-activist-4000-russian-soldiers-missing-or-dead-in-east-%E2%80%8Eukraine%E2%80%AC/ http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/27/rights-activist-4000-r... And please, don't quite RT.
    - Mikeb85 12y ago
      Defending your territory? From what, the people who already live there? The operations in the east were essentially punitive, simply because they didn't support the new government. Yanukovych never sent the army after the protesters, yet the new Kyiv government did... I don't know if you remember the sequence of events, but Donetsk never separated and formed an army until after the massive escalation of violence by the pro-western Ukrainians... > Oh, and by the way, where did the bodies of 4000 dead Russian soldiers go? Wait, how did they get to Ukraine in the first place? If you honestly believe the completely incompetent and inept Ukrainian armed forces could kill 4000 Russian soldiers you're insane... The fact they were routed by a separatist force composed mostly of retired soldiers and volunteers with a few Russian advisers, despite having superior numbers and actually having air forces speaks to their competence, or lack thereof. By the way, the ceasefire was called because the Ukrainian military had basically given up, and many, if not most of the soldiers were on the verge of disbanding... Odds are they didn't even kill that many separatists...
      - ydevnow 12y ago
        Incompetence is not with the Ukrainian army (maybe lack of finance is). The facts are there: Russia is invading Ukraine. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/29/what-does-russia-tell-the-mothers-of-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-not-much/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/29... If you still think there aren't any Russian soldiers, in Ukraine, there is a label for that: a troll. Russian soldiers have been killed, interviewed, captured, and shipped back to Russia (not in that particular order, of course) http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-truth-behind-putins-secret-war-269227.html http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-t... And yes, defending your country from a Russian invasion is not 'ethnic cleansing': it's just defending your territory. It's not a conspiracy.
e12e 12y ago
I believe that part has been answered by other [responders to this thread].

> neo-nazis with EU/NATO support Apart from Putin and his supporters, who says the Ukrainian government are neo-Nazis, and on what basis?

by dctoedt 12y ago

> neo-nazis with EU/NATO support Apart from Putin and his supporters, who says the Ukrainian government are neo-Nazis, and on what basis?

tedks 12y ago

The parent commenter may not have been talking about the Ukranian government, but of the numerous paramilitary nationalist groups that were instrumental in the protests that destabilized the previous regime. This is not a disputed fact. What's unknown is the degree to which those groups were supported by the EU or NATO, but the CIA has backed worse.

Mikeb85 12y ago

Right Sector and Svoboda both have representation in the new Ukrainian government. Both are right wing, fascist parties, and Right Sector even has paramilitary forces which engaged in attacks on political opponents, for instance the attack in Odessa in which they killed and burned alive dozens of Russian-speaking Ukrainians in the Odessa trade union building... Prior to the 'revolution', Svoboda was denounced by many European nations and the EU. Now they form a fairly significant part of the Ukrainian government, and they were a large part of the 'revolution'...

trhway 12y ago
>Prior to the 'revolution', Svoboda was denounced by many European nations and the EU. yep. EU and US are at very interesting place. In order to fight Russia the EU and US are forced to support new Ukrainian government which performs "anti-terrorist operation" in the East (de-facto amounting to ethnic cleansing of Russians there) by mostly using the volunteer forces built of Right Sector and similar nationalist people. It it a big political skill to talk about freedoms, human rights, democracy (it is ok for Scotland to vote for separation, yet not ok for Crimea or Donetsk) and to not notice the stench coming from Kiev. And this new "lustration" law champined by Svoboda and making its successful way through the Ukranian parliament - setting up committees on "un-Ukranian activities" with people identified by the committees (read Russians and all opposition) banished from all the _elected_ , government, education, military, etc.. positions.
- ydevnow 12y ago
  Since when did defending your territory became 'ethnic cleansing'? Remind me, who went over the border? In a Ukrainian conflict, why do we keep hearing about Russian soldiers? Oh, and by the way, where did the bodies of 4000 dead Russian soldiers go? Wait, how did they get to Ukraine in the first place? http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/27/rights-activist-4000-russian-soldiers-missing-or-dead-in-east-%E2%80%8Eukraine%E2%80%AC/ http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/09/27/rights-activist-4000-r... And please, don't quite RT.
  - Mikeb85 12y ago
    Defending your territory? From what, the people who already live there? The operations in the east were essentially punitive, simply because they didn't support the new government. Yanukovych never sent the army after the protesters, yet the new Kyiv government did... I don't know if you remember the sequence of events, but Donetsk never separated and formed an army until after the massive escalation of violence by the pro-western Ukrainians... > Oh, and by the way, where did the bodies of 4000 dead Russian soldiers go? Wait, how did they get to Ukraine in the first place? If you honestly believe the completely incompetent and inept Ukrainian armed forces could kill 4000 Russian soldiers you're insane... The fact they were routed by a separatist force composed mostly of retired soldiers and volunteers with a few Russian advisers, despite having superior numbers and actually having air forces speaks to their competence, or lack thereof. By the way, the ceasefire was called because the Ukrainian military had basically given up, and many, if not most of the soldiers were on the verge of disbanding... Odds are they didn't even kill that many separatists...
    - ydevnow 12y ago
      Incompetence is not with the Ukrainian army (maybe lack of finance is). The facts are there: Russia is invading Ukraine. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/29/what-does-russia-tell-the-mothers-of-soldiers-killed-in-ukraine-not-much/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/29... If you still think there aren't any Russian soldiers, in Ukraine, there is a label for that: a troll. Russian soldiers have been killed, interviewed, captured, and shipped back to Russia (not in that particular order, of course) http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-truth-behind-putins-secret-war-269227.html http://www.newsweek.com/2014/09/19/russian-soldiers-reveal-t... And yes, defending your country from a Russian invasion is not 'ethnic cleansing': it's just defending your territory. It's not a conspiracy.

e12e 12y ago

I believe that part has been answered by other [responders to this thread].