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I much prefer GAN (Wifi Calling) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network) to LTE Direct. LTE ru

I much prefer GAN (Wifi Calling) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_Access_Network) to LTE Direct. LTE runs on licensed spectrum, which means the licenseholder (the cell network) can squeeze you for as much money as they want. Unlicensed spectrum is always cheaper, and you hardly need LTE's range advantage for femtocells. Why use licensed spectrum for short-range stuff? I also find it suspicious that this article emphasizes how much buy-in LTE Direct has from gigantic corporations, without making much of a case for why actual endusers would like it. A good clue is that there's no equivalent for Wifi MAC randomization (which iOS 8 does by default) in LTE Direct: spoofing your IMEI is a federal crime. There's no way to avoid being tracked by LTE Direct femtocells, short of shutting off your phone and sticking it in a metal box.

zwieback 12y ago
Not defending phone operators but the problem with unlicensed spectrum is precisely that it's unlicensed. You're power limited and everyone and his uncle messes up the spectrum.
- rayiner 12y ago
  The problem with unlicensed spectrum is the same as for anarchist utopia. There's essentially a single rule (maximum power limit, but even that is poorly enforced), but lots of anti-social behaviors are possible even abiding by that rule. There has been some very good work in how to add more structure and rules to unlicensed while keeping its good qualities: http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4111&context=flr; http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=411... http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1542658&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D1542658 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=154265...
  - lupin_sansei 12y ago
    You might find the history of unlicensed spectrum interesting http://mises.org/daily/1662 http://mises.org/daily/1662 TLDR: in the 1920s spectrum was treated as a homesteadable property right, which you could use to stop others interfering with you and could trade.
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  5G is going to require frequencies so high that you'll need femotcells everywhere [1]. A nice side-effect of this is that most building materials will filter out the signal, so frequency planning/cooperation isn't as necessary as with traditional cellular frequency bands. [1] http://research.ijcaonline.org/volume62/number10/pxc3884787.pdf http://research.ijcaonline.org/volume62/number10/pxc3884787....
- woah 12y ago
  Is that a problem? My wifi works great on the limited garbage spectrum that it has been allowed to operate on. I think spectrum licensing served an important purpose in the days when everything was analog, but now it's just a way to get a great return on investments in lobbyists.
  - zwieback 12y ago
    At the RF level there's still a lot of pain with WiFi. It works okay for what it's meant for but the long-range/low-power stuff they want to do with LTE-direct wouldn't be possible.
  - wglb 12y ago
    How does digital change this? It is still subject to interference, noise, and bandwidth limitations.
rmac 12y ago
The iOS8 WiFi probe MAC randomization implementation is quite flawed in that it's enabled only when you have location services off AND cellular data turned off! [0] [0]http://blog.airtightnetworks.com/ios8-mac-randomgate/ http://blog.airtightnetworks.com/ios8-mac-randomgate/
quahada 12y ago
> I also find it suspicious that this article emphasizes how much buy-in LTE Direct has from gigantic corporations The last line of the article is the submarine: "Wireless carriers might even gain a new stream of revenue by charging companies that want to offer services or apps using the technology, Qualcomm says." http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
scintill76 12y ago
> spoofing your IMEI is a federal crime Can anyone cite this? I've seen references to the bill S. 1070--113th Congress [0] and earlier versions of it, but it hasn't passed or really gotten started at all. I read through a few online discussions [1][2][3] and it always seems to turn into a flamefest about how it's so "obviously illegal, been so for years", yet I haven't seen a concrete reference proving it. Sometimes discussion is suppressed, because it's clearly illegal in most other countries, which is fair. I would not be surprised if there's some obscure application of FCC regulations, or even a generic reference to changing identifiers on property, that ends up covering it, but am curious if anyone can point it out. Note, that the IMEI does not authenticate a paying subscriber to the network (SIM cards do), so it shouldn't be covered under theft of service. [0] https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1070/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/107... [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1852166 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1852166 [2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.legal.moderated/2EpAdivJXBg https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.legal.moderated... [3] http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1786541-How-do-you-change-an-IMEI-of-a-blacklisted-T-Mobile-phone http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1786541-How-do-yo...
- sbierwagen 12y ago
  S.493 - Wireless Telephone Protection Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit knowingly using, producing, trafficking in, having control or custody of, or possessing hardware or software knowing that it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization. You could probably argue that modifying the IMEI ("telecommunication identifying information") would not actually allow you "to obtain telecommunications service without authorization"-- you still need to reconfigure the SIM card. Of course, stealing PINs without also stealing the ATM cards is prima facie a crime, even though the PIN alone doesn't allow you to obtain funds.
  - 12y ago

zwieback 12y ago

Not defending phone operators but the problem with unlicensed spectrum is precisely that it's unlicensed. You're power limited and everyone and his uncle messes up the spectrum.

rayiner 12y ago
The problem with unlicensed spectrum is the same as for anarchist utopia. There's essentially a single rule (maximum power limit, but even that is poorly enforced), but lots of anti-social behaviors are possible even abiding by that rule. There has been some very good work in how to add more structure and rules to unlicensed while keeping its good qualities: http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4111&context=flr; http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=411... http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=1542658&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D1542658 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=154265...
- lupin_sansei 12y ago
  You might find the history of unlicensed spectrum interesting http://mises.org/daily/1662 http://mises.org/daily/1662 TLDR: in the 1920s spectrum was treated as a homesteadable property right, which you could use to stop others interfering with you and could trade.
toomuchtodo 12y ago
5G is going to require frequencies so high that you'll need femotcells everywhere [1]. A nice side-effect of this is that most building materials will filter out the signal, so frequency planning/cooperation isn't as necessary as with traditional cellular frequency bands. [1] http://research.ijcaonline.org/volume62/number10/pxc3884787.pdf http://research.ijcaonline.org/volume62/number10/pxc3884787....
woah 12y ago
Is that a problem? My wifi works great on the limited garbage spectrum that it has been allowed to operate on. I think spectrum licensing served an important purpose in the days when everything was analog, but now it's just a way to get a great return on investments in lobbyists.
- zwieback 12y ago
  At the RF level there's still a lot of pain with WiFi. It works okay for what it's meant for but the long-range/low-power stuff they want to do with LTE-direct wouldn't be possible.
- wglb 12y ago
  How does digital change this? It is still subject to interference, noise, and bandwidth limitations.

rmac 12y ago

The iOS8 WiFi probe MAC randomization implementation is quite flawed in that it's enabled only when you have location services off AND cellular data turned off! [0] [0]http://blog.airtightnetworks.com/ios8-mac-randomgate/ http://blog.airtightnetworks.com/ios8-mac-randomgate/

quahada 12y ago

> I also find it suspicious that this article emphasizes how much buy-in LTE Direct has from gigantic corporations The last line of the article is the submarine: "Wireless carriers might even gain a new stream of revenue by charging companies that want to offer services or apps using the technology, Qualcomm says." http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

scintill76 12y ago

> spoofing your IMEI is a federal crime Can anyone cite this? I've seen references to the bill S. 1070--113th Congress [0] and earlier versions of it, but it hasn't passed or really gotten started at all. I read through a few online discussions [1][2][3] and it always seems to turn into a flamefest about how it's so "obviously illegal, been so for years", yet I haven't seen a concrete reference proving it. Sometimes discussion is suppressed, because it's clearly illegal in most other countries, which is fair. I would not be surprised if there's some obscure application of FCC regulations, or even a generic reference to changing identifiers on property, that ends up covering it, but am curious if anyone can point it out. Note, that the IMEI does not authenticate a paying subscriber to the network (SIM cards do), so it shouldn't be covered under theft of service. [0] https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1070/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/107... [1] http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1852166 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1852166 [2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.legal.moderated/2EpAdivJXBg https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.legal.moderated... [3] http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1786541-How-do-you-change-an-IMEI-of-a-blacklisted-T-Mobile-phone http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php/1786541-How-do-yo...

sbierwagen 12y ago
S.493 - Wireless Telephone Protection Act https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/senate-bill/493 Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit knowingly using, producing, trafficking in, having control or custody of, or possessing hardware or software knowing that it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization. You could probably argue that modifying the IMEI ("telecommunication identifying information") would not actually allow you "to obtain telecommunications service without authorization"-- you still need to reconfigure the SIM card. Of course, stealing PINs without also stealing the ATM cards is prima facie a crime, even though the PIN alone doesn't allow you to obtain funds.
- 12y ago