5 ms·

Physical activity can have a positive effect on children who suffer from ADHD

40 points by Thevet 12y ago

Thevet 12y ago
Didn't use the existing title because it's potential hyperbolic/confusing (medication suggests a pharmaceutical, at least to me). Still, a potentially very important finding. Here's the newly-released paper cited in the article: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/24/peds.2013-3219.abstract http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/...
- tjradcliffe 12y ago
  It appears that paper has nothing to do with kids who have been diagnosed with ADHD... at least there's no mention of that in summary unless I'm really missing something. The article in the Atlantic cites other work that is ADHD-specific. This is important because it is not uncommon to find interventions (including drugs) that benefit people who do not have a given condition that do nothing for people who have the condition. To take a ridiculous but hopefully memorable example: steroids will not help a person with no arms lift more weight, even though they may help other people a lot. In the case of metabolic diseases, sufferers are generally missing important metabolic pathways that the rest of us have, so the example isn't completely irrelevant. In the present case, I think it's perfectly reasonable that exercise will help (although what I think is perfectly reasonable and what is true have nothing to do with each other) and as the Atlantic articles says, other studies have shown this, but I just wanted to make a pedantic point about that particular pediatric paper.
  - Animats 12y ago
    The study says "The exclusion criteria included special educational services related to cognitive or attentional disorders ...". So kids diagnosed with ADHD had been specifically excluded. This should be tried on ADHD-diagnosed kids. If they're physically healthy, 70 minutes a day of mild exercise won't hurt them.
jordan0day 12y ago
Was originally going to post "Well that's a big fat 'DUH!!!!'", but then I thought better. It's good to have studies to back up these sorts of things that typically get treated as common sense.
- strlen 12y ago
  Very good point: while it is common sense and true that exercise reduces ADHD, it is also common sense (but not true!) to say that sun revolves around the earth or that, in a vacuum, a feather will hit the ground after a large ball of lead. Much of Quantum Mechanics is also counter intuitive but true, while some scientific concepts can only be expressed through mathematics and have no simple intuitive explanation.
- Houshalter 12y ago
  Relevant, Hindsight Devalues Science: http://lesswrong.com/lw/im/hindsight_devalues_science/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/im/hindsight_devalues_science/ >Daphna Baratz exposed college students to pairs of supposed findings, one true ("In prosperous times people spend a larger portion of their income than during a recession") and one the truth's opposite. In both sides of the pair, students rated the supposed finding as what they "would have predicted". Perfectly standard hindsight bias. >Which leads people to think they have no need for science, because they "could have predicted" that.
  - otakucode 12y ago
    And if the science contradicts what their intuition tells them is correct - they disbelieve the science and cling to their intuition. Additionally, the progress of civilization can be measured most accurately by seeing which threats and dangers are removed from peoples lives. So when these people wish to trust their intuition rather than science, they are vindicated - they are protected by the umbrella of progress that intellectuals before them erected. So they now have the luxury of sitting back and decrying the costs of maintaining the infrastructure that protects them as unnecessary. This fuels the vaccine nonsense, fears of GM crops, fears of wifi signals in England, and all sorts of other similar issues. I expect these things will continue to increase until eventually major portions of the infrastructure of modern society will be dismantled or allowed to decay because no one believes they are necessary.
lifeisstillgood 12y ago
"Humans who evolved for constant outdoors activity and verbal co-ordination amongst tribe members don't do so well being told to sit down and shut up" There are somethings that "civilisation" has brought us like medicine and plentiful energy and food that we want to keep - and some things like industrial work patterns and sedentary indoor lifestyles that we will want to remove. Getting that balance right is not medication. It's whatever the opposite of medication is. Edit: thank you for the science of common sense mention - I forget that we have too many politicians who already know what is common sense irrespective of double blind controls and it is worth celebrating the effort to prove one.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- bh3244 12y ago
  Perhaps ADHD is mostly nonsense, but what I do know is that adderall made me go from a lazy bum failing all my classes to the top student in the department. So it is worth measuring the opportunity cost of under performing. If it works it works.
carsongross 12y ago
Children with ADHD, previously mislabeled "young boys", respond well to physical activity, previously mislabeled "recess".
- Eleopteryx 12y ago
  There's an argument for ADHD being over-diagnosed, but your sentiment trivializes the issues that can prevent people like me from attaining a better quality of life. I was about 23 by the time I got treated for ADHD. I often wonder how different my trajectory as an adult might have been had I been treated while I was still in high school. I got abysmal grades -- just barely graduating, in fact -- and I dropped out of college rather quickly. I beat myself up on account of my failures, over which in hindsight I had very little control. Amphetamines are no panacea. I don't truly know what I'm doing to my heart and brain in the long term, anorexia is a constant concern, and coming down from what I would describe as a 6-hour high can be devastating to my mood, but they overall they improved my quality of life and facilitated me attaining a career as a software developer. Perhaps more exercise would be just as effective as a treatment, but knowing that I had a legitimate problem was crucial.
  - chunkiestbacon 12y ago
    +1 ADHD is real. It was a lot harder to get a career as a software developer started. I feel like without finally discovering the root of my problem and taking meds at age 18 it wouldn't have been possible. All those afternoons spent over procrastinating on homework. Excercise helps. I feel lasting positive effects on mood and concentration when I lift regularly. Sadly, It doesn't alleviate the symptoms completly and doesn't cure the syndrome. I think we'll be able to treat ADHD much more efficently when we have cheaper EEG that can be worn always. Recently the muse headband was introduced. I own one and it's a great leap forward. Sadly there's no app for neurofeedback training that is working with it yet...
- Houshalter 12y ago
  The majority of "young boys" do not have ADHD, and "physical activity" is far more general than "recess".
joncooper 12y ago
John Ratey wrote several good books on ADD/ADHD as well as this one: _Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain_ http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B... - it is pretty good.
nether 12y ago
I'd rather keep my kid in and teach him to code.
lawtguy 12y ago
I think this points out that the problem is we keep treating our children like adults. We've pushed to make them learn skills earlier to the point that kindergarden is now essentially first grade [0]. Additionally schools are cutting back on PE to be able to cram more education in [1]. The result I believe is that normal childhood development of self-regulation begins to look pathological and becomes diagnosed as ADHD. At the same time we've been demanding more at younger ages, ADHD diagnosis have greatly increased [2]. Additionally, roughly two-thirds of these kids won't have ADHD by the time they become an adult [3]. I think this points to the fact that we're simply expecting too much academically too early and we're compounding this by taking away the physical play that would help them develop. We need to reset kindergarden back to where it was so that most kids have a chance to properly develop. We also need to restore the idea that children are suppose to play, that it's good for them and not a waste of time. P.S: For that other 30%, ADHD is real and drugs may be entirely appropriate. I'd also suspect that more play and pushing learning later will help them as well. P.P.S: We also need to find a way for the kids that do have the self-regulation to learn more advanced material. Right now schools do a terrible job of dealing with the kids on either end of the bell curve of learning skills. P.P.P.S: Boys appear to lag girls by almost year in terms of their self-regulation [4]. I suspect that is why boys are far more diagnosed with ADHD. In any case, I believe this is hurting both boys and girls, it's just more apparent in boys. [0]: http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/what-happened-kindergarten http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/what-happened-kin... [1]: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/education/many-schools-cutting-back-physical-education http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/education/many-schools-cut... [2]: http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/25/adhd-diagnosis-treatment-on-the-rise-in-u-s/62500.html http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/25/adhd-diagnosis-treat... [3]: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/mental-adhd-causes-problems-into-adulthood-030413 http://www.healthline.com/health-news/mental-adhd-causes-pro... [4]: http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-girls-get-better-grades-than-boys-do/380318/ http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-gir...
- ANTSANTS 12y ago
  Probably even worse than the reduction of PE time is the reduction of playground time and the overbearing focus on child safety ruining what remains. As stereotypical dorky kid, I never liked PE, but I'd happily run around outside for hours if I was playing tag or basketball or something with friends. I'm not sure if kids these days get to have that experience.

40 points by Thevet 12y ago

Didn't use the existing title because it's potential hyperbolic/confusing (medication suggests a pharmaceutical, at least to me). Still, a potentially very important finding. Here's the newly-released paper cited in the article: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/24/peds.2013-3219.abstract http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/...

tjradcliffe 12y ago
It appears that paper has nothing to do with kids who have been diagnosed with ADHD... at least there's no mention of that in summary unless I'm really missing something. The article in the Atlantic cites other work that is ADHD-specific. This is important because it is not uncommon to find interventions (including drugs) that benefit people who do not have a given condition that do nothing for people who have the condition. To take a ridiculous but hopefully memorable example: steroids will not help a person with no arms lift more weight, even though they may help other people a lot. In the case of metabolic diseases, sufferers are generally missing important metabolic pathways that the rest of us have, so the example isn't completely irrelevant. In the present case, I think it's perfectly reasonable that exercise will help (although what I think is perfectly reasonable and what is true have nothing to do with each other) and as the Atlantic articles says, other studies have shown this, but I just wanted to make a pedantic point about that particular pediatric paper.
- Animats 12y ago
  The study says "The exclusion criteria included special educational services related to cognitive or attentional disorders ...". So kids diagnosed with ADHD had been specifically excluded. This should be tried on ADHD-diagnosed kids. If they're physically healthy, 70 minutes a day of mild exercise won't hurt them.

jordan0day 12y ago

Was originally going to post "Well that's a big fat 'DUH!!!!'", but then I thought better. It's good to have studies to back up these sorts of things that typically get treated as common sense.

strlen 12y ago
Very good point: while it is common sense and true that exercise reduces ADHD, it is also common sense (but not true!) to say that sun revolves around the earth or that, in a vacuum, a feather will hit the ground after a large ball of lead. Much of Quantum Mechanics is also counter intuitive but true, while some scientific concepts can only be expressed through mathematics and have no simple intuitive explanation.
Houshalter 12y ago
Relevant, Hindsight Devalues Science: http://lesswrong.com/lw/im/hindsight_devalues_science/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/im/hindsight_devalues_science/ >Daphna Baratz exposed college students to pairs of supposed findings, one true ("In prosperous times people spend a larger portion of their income than during a recession") and one the truth's opposite. In both sides of the pair, students rated the supposed finding as what they "would have predicted". Perfectly standard hindsight bias. >Which leads people to think they have no need for science, because they "could have predicted" that.
- otakucode 12y ago
  And if the science contradicts what their intuition tells them is correct - they disbelieve the science and cling to their intuition. Additionally, the progress of civilization can be measured most accurately by seeing which threats and dangers are removed from peoples lives. So when these people wish to trust their intuition rather than science, they are vindicated - they are protected by the umbrella of progress that intellectuals before them erected. So they now have the luxury of sitting back and decrying the costs of maintaining the infrastructure that protects them as unnecessary. This fuels the vaccine nonsense, fears of GM crops, fears of wifi signals in England, and all sorts of other similar issues. I expect these things will continue to increase until eventually major portions of the infrastructure of modern society will be dismantled or allowed to decay because no one believes they are necessary.

lifeisstillgood 12y ago

"Humans who evolved for constant outdoors activity and verbal co-ordination amongst tribe members don't do so well being told to sit down and shut up" There are somethings that "civilisation" has brought us like medicine and plentiful energy and food that we want to keep - and some things like industrial work patterns and sedentary indoor lifestyles that we will want to remove. Getting that balance right is not medication. It's whatever the opposite of medication is. Edit: thank you for the science of common sense mention - I forget that we have too many politicians who already know what is common sense irrespective of double blind controls and it is worth celebrating the effort to prove one.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

bh3244 12y ago
Perhaps ADHD is mostly nonsense, but what I do know is that adderall made me go from a lazy bum failing all my classes to the top student in the department. So it is worth measuring the opportunity cost of under performing. If it works it works.

carsongross 12y ago

Children with ADHD, previously mislabeled "young boys", respond well to physical activity, previously mislabeled "recess".

Eleopteryx 12y ago
There's an argument for ADHD being over-diagnosed, but your sentiment trivializes the issues that can prevent people like me from attaining a better quality of life. I was about 23 by the time I got treated for ADHD. I often wonder how different my trajectory as an adult might have been had I been treated while I was still in high school. I got abysmal grades -- just barely graduating, in fact -- and I dropped out of college rather quickly. I beat myself up on account of my failures, over which in hindsight I had very little control. Amphetamines are no panacea. I don't truly know what I'm doing to my heart and brain in the long term, anorexia is a constant concern, and coming down from what I would describe as a 6-hour high can be devastating to my mood, but they overall they improved my quality of life and facilitated me attaining a career as a software developer. Perhaps more exercise would be just as effective as a treatment, but knowing that I had a legitimate problem was crucial.
- chunkiestbacon 12y ago
  +1 ADHD is real. It was a lot harder to get a career as a software developer started. I feel like without finally discovering the root of my problem and taking meds at age 18 it wouldn't have been possible. All those afternoons spent over procrastinating on homework. Excercise helps. I feel lasting positive effects on mood and concentration when I lift regularly. Sadly, It doesn't alleviate the symptoms completly and doesn't cure the syndrome. I think we'll be able to treat ADHD much more efficently when we have cheaper EEG that can be worn always. Recently the muse headband was introduced. I own one and it's a great leap forward. Sadly there's no app for neurofeedback training that is working with it yet...
Houshalter 12y ago
The majority of "young boys" do not have ADHD, and "physical activity" is far more general than "recess".

joncooper 12y ago

John Ratey wrote several good books on ADD/ADHD as well as this one: _Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain_ http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-Brain/dp/0316113514 http://www.amazon.com/Spark-Revolutionary-Science-Exercise-B... - it is pretty good.

nether 12y ago

I'd rather keep my kid in and teach him to code.

lawtguy 12y ago

I think this points out that the problem is we keep treating our children like adults. We've pushed to make them learn skills earlier to the point that kindergarden is now essentially first grade [0]. Additionally schools are cutting back on PE to be able to cram more education in [1]. The result I believe is that normal childhood development of self-regulation begins to look pathological and becomes diagnosed as ADHD. At the same time we've been demanding more at younger ages, ADHD diagnosis have greatly increased [2]. Additionally, roughly two-thirds of these kids won't have ADHD by the time they become an adult [3]. I think this points to the fact that we're simply expecting too much academically too early and we're compounding this by taking away the physical play that would help them develop. We need to reset kindergarden back to where it was so that most kids have a chance to properly develop. We also need to restore the idea that children are suppose to play, that it's good for them and not a waste of time. P.S: For that other 30%, ADHD is real and drugs may be entirely appropriate. I'd also suspect that more play and pushing learning later will help them as well. P.P.S: We also need to find a way for the kids that do have the self-regulation to learn more advanced material. Right now schools do a terrible job of dealing with the kids on either end of the bell curve of learning skills. P.P.P.S: Boys appear to lag girls by almost year in terms of their self-regulation [4]. I suspect that is why boys are far more diagnosed with ADHD. In any case, I believe this is hurting both boys and girls, it's just more apparent in boys. [0]: http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/what-happened-kindergarten http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/what-happened-kin... [1]: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/education/many-schools-cutting-back-physical-education http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/education/many-schools-cut... [2]: http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/25/adhd-diagnosis-treatment-on-the-rise-in-u-s/62500.html http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/11/25/adhd-diagnosis-treat... [3]: http://www.healthline.com/health-news/mental-adhd-causes-problems-into-adulthood-030413 http://www.healthline.com/health-news/mental-adhd-causes-pro... [4]: http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-girls-get-better-grades-than-boys-do/380318/ http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/09/why-gir...

ANTSANTS 12y ago
Probably even worse than the reduction of PE time is the reduction of playground time and the overbearing focus on child safety ruining what remains. As stereotypical dorky kid, I never liked PE, but I'd happily run around outside for hours if I was playing tag or basketball or something with friends. I'm not sure if kids these days get to have that experience.