9 ms·

iPhone 6 and 6 Plus not as bendy as believed

229 points by eglover 12y ago

jaunkst 12y ago
I don't think apple would ever influence online content to say that they are not as bendy. That would be unfair. Give them a break guys! Consumer report isnt making any money on this.
shawndumas 12y ago
Phone Deformation Case Separation ----------------------------------------------------- HTC One (M8) 70 lbs. 90 lbs. Apple iPhone 6 70 lbs. 100 lbs. Apple iPhone 6 Plus 90 lbs. 110 lbs. LG G3 130 lbs. 130 lbs. Apple iPhone 5 130 lbs. 150 lbs. Samsung Galaxy Note 3 150 lbs. 150 lbs. Direct link to the video http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/3809044640001/ http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/3809044640001/
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Mithaldu 12y ago
  First off, their own results show that the 6 series is considerable weaker than the 5 series. Secondly, they applied that force for 30 seconds and got significant deformation. I'm fairly sure that, given more time, they'd reach the less significant deformation reported and shown by others, with less force.
  - UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
    Your second point is a valid good one to at least consider. However just playing devil's advocate: 9 returns to Apple (assuming that figure is true) is absolutely trivial relative to the units shipped. I think it will be interesting to see where we stand in 6 months time. Will we see tons more phones return?
    - mwfunk 12y ago
      That's really the only meaningful question here. It doesn't matter if it's quantifiably more likely to bend, what matters is if that results in enough phones getting damaged in normal usage to be an actual issue for people. No one will know that for a while. Non-ECC memory is more likely to get corrupted than ECC memory, but that doesn't mean that every single person who uses a computing device should be using ECC memory. Just because one thing is quantifiably less robust than something else is meaningless without a concept of "how robust does it need to be?" Obviously the company thinks the phones have sufficient tolerances. A few people on the Internet have posted firsthand accounts that they think proves that the phones are inadequate. A much larger group of people on the Internet who don't like the company that makes the phones practically salivate over these sorts of events, and have been making sure that absolutely everyone who reads any tech forums is HIGHLY AWARE that this is a very important thing that we should all know and care about very, very deeply. Journalists of course will write about this stuff because many of them interpret their job as writing about whatever people are talking about. Which brings us to the present, in which the only truth that anyone can point to is: no one actually knows if this is actually a problem or not. The only way to answer that question is to wait and see how many returns there are due to breakage. For people who care about truth, well, that's the truth, boring as it may be. In a few months we'll find out if a big company might make less money because somebody should've used a bigger number on a spreadsheet. Exciting! On the other hand, for people who care about arguing about things on the Internet, well, to hell with them, honestly.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    The results show that the 6 series is similar in strength to phones of that size from other manufacturers. It stands to reason that a smaller, thicker phone like the iPhone 5 will be more rigid (though it's interesting that it's easier to deform a 6 than a 6+).
    - bane 12y ago
      No, the results show that there's as much as a 50% difference in the results between top and bottom. That's a huge difference in structural terms.
      - idlewords 12y ago
        Yeah, some of the phones in the test are quite hard to bend, and some are extremely hard to bend. In that sense there's a difference.
        bane 12y ago
        It's the difference between "I can bend/break it with my bare hands" to "I can't bend/break it with my bare hands". Things stronger than humans tend to last better under use by humans.
        baddox 12y ago
        I can choose not to bend/break my phone with my bare hands. That's good enough for me.
        seanp2k2 12y ago
        Sure, but I think the point is more the "when you have it in the front pocket of your skinny jeans and drunkenly run a bit into the edge of a counter top" case that could very reasonably happen in a 2-year replacement cycle of such a device. Personally, I'll be getting a rigid case that covers the back and sides.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    Deformation depends a lot more on the force than on how long the force is applied. There is a critical point where a material will permanently deform rather than springing back. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_(engineering) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_(engineering)
- bane 12y ago
  Wow. glad to know my Note 3, as big as it is, is class leading in this particular test. It's definitely a top-notch piece of hardware in every other way. From specs to hardware build the iPhone 6 just seems really behind the curve and very "blah". The iPhone 5 was definitely a class leading phone in the hand before this test, feeling like a beautiful instrument. This test is proving it too is a fantastically put together device from a durability POV. The 6 is very ho hum and I'm adding this to my list of ho hum things about it. It's not a bad phone, but not a great, class leading one in any way either. I never really thought I'd see the day that a Korean phone designed by a completely anonymous corporate industrial design drone really beat the socks off of Apple's offering, and yet it appears to have happened this year. All that being said, #bendgate is seriously overblown, just like antenna-gate. This is most likely a desire to hit Apple where it hurts the most, image, in order to extract free stuff/lower price/whatever like what happened last time with antenna-gate.
  - GuiA 12y ago
    > From specs to hardware build the iPhone 6 just seems really behind the curve Obviously people see what they want to see, but: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-preliminary-results http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plu...
    - bane 12y ago
      Specwise it looks like a top-end phone from last year. RAM, screen, etc. I'm glad to see it's doing well in the javascript benchmarks at least. Speaks highly of Apple's nitro engine.
      - Geee 12y ago
        No, iPhone's A8 is optimized for single-core performance, which is way more meaningful in real applications than combined multi-core performance. 99% of apps run on single core. Although, A8's combined multi-core performance is also on par with other high-end smartphones. See comparison to SGS5 in Geekbench 3: http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/iPhone-6-vs-Galaxy-S5-benchmark-test-b.jpg http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/iPhone-...
- PhantomGremlin 12y ago
  Sigh. Even that link causes Safari on OS X to display an image saying: WE'RE SORRY You need to update your Flash Player So, by default, the Consumer Reports website is non-functional with those customers who are most likely to have an iPhone. I then visited consumerreports.org using my non-bent iPhone6 and wonder of wonders, the video played. Morons.
saool 12y ago
doesn't look like they applied pressure on the spot near the volume rocker where it apparently has the defect.
- 2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
  That doesn't sound right. If you look at their tests of the iPhone 5, the LG G3 and the Galaxy Note 3, they clearly bend off centre, where I assume there is a weak point. This whole thing is stupid. I have an iPhone 6 and it just barely fit comfortably in my front pocket. If it's just a bit off I find it awkward and uncomfortable. I would love to see tests involving the real people who are bending their phones in their pockets. a) to measure the forces in their pockets and b) to see how they can stand that sort of discomfort. Edit: I'll be specific. When I am standing the phone fits fine in my jeans. It's not great when I try and sit. In some positions it's ok. But in my head I was implying that if it's uncomfortable, I take it out of my pocket. The 6 is definitely the limit of any phone I'd buy.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    You are complaining that the big phone you bought doesn't fit comfortably in your pocket. I don't even know what to say. With regard to a weak point, the phone would bend there first in these tests if such a thing existed. That's how weak points work.
    - zaroth 12y ago
      The problem is a bit more subtle than that. If you're highly vested into the iOS ecosystem, and you need a new phone, you want to get the latest and greatest, but the 6 is just too big for some people. My wife and I stopped in the Apple store today, and she saw the 6 and 6+ for the first time. She has a 4s (4.5") vs the iP6 @ 5.4" is quite large by comparison. "Nope, too big. I want the same size as mine but that thin" was all she had to say about it. It's a bit sad that her 4s is starting to show its age, and instead of a 6 she's likely get a 5s instead. I think a lot of people are wishing for a 5-sized 6. I'm hoping my 5 will last two more years and that Apple will have a new release by then that's < 5".
virtuabhi 12y ago
If I remember correctly, in the original iPhone 6+ bend video[1], the force was applied both at the top and bottom. Wouldn't that produce more torque (with respect to centre of mass) and maybe result in quicker bending? The ConsumerReport machine applies force only at the centre. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM
- oldmanjay 12y ago
  only applying force at the center would be a push
mschuster91 12y ago
45kg? Put your phone in your back pocket and sit down... if you're a bit more fat than usual, 45kg is easily achieved. I killed four phones to date simply by accidentally sitting down on them.
- aroch 12y ago
  ... Stop sitting on your phone. Would you put your laptop of the edge of a chair and sit on it?
- icelancer 12y ago
  >I killed four phones to date simply by accidentally sitting down on them. Uh. Don't sit on them? Who does this?
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    People who can afford to buy and mistreat a lot of phones, apparently.
- baddox 12y ago
  Putting your phone in your back pocket and sitting down is in the same class of abuse as jumping into a swimming pool with your phone in your pocket. I would never expect any phone to survive either.
  - Gustomaximus 12y ago
    Sony Xperia z2 & z3 are both waterproof. Quite amazing phones. A couple more generations and this could be the standard.
    - XorNot 12y ago
      Galaxy S5 is as well.
    - bergie 12y ago
      Yep. This was probably the first actually interesting unboxing video I've seen: http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y (unboxing Z3 under water)
abduhl 12y ago
This test shows a severe lack of understanding of flexural strength testing. This test is a bastardization of the three point bending test that is commonly performed for peak bending strength analysis of materials. Bending is a result of moments and moments are driven by moment arms. These tests should not be looking at point load required to induce deformation but rather the moment required to induce deformation. Each of these should have been converted into equivalent moments based on the size of the phone. For example, the M8 is shown as 146.3 mm (5.76 in) H; 70.6 mm (2.78 in) W; 9.4 mm (0.37 in) D and the iPhone 6 is 138.1 x 67 x 6.9 mm (5.44 x 2.64 x 0.27 in) and both are shown to "deform" at 70 lbs. The M8 has an induced moment of 100 lb-in while the iPhone 6 has an induced moment of 95 lb-in. The resultant bending stress by assuming a linear stress distribution across the section is then 1575 psi for the M8 and 2950 psi for the iPhone 6. Similar analyses should be undertaken for each of the other phones. A more accurate test for the failure mode of concern would be a four point load test in which moment is constant across a portion of the phone. The three point load test induces a moment that is maximum at the point of load application. The four point load test is more likely to show you where the point of weakness in the phone is.
- knowaveragejoe 12y ago
  So what does this ultimately mean? Seems like you can bend any given modern smartphone, given enough force. Is the iPhone 6 more likely to bend under average conditions? Is there any substance to the hubbub about bending 6's? A lot of jargon in your response, is this lengthy response just to point out that their methodology is flawed or are you making a point about the case at hand?
  - fit2rule 12y ago
    The point is things got worse from iPhone 5 -> 6 .. the case got less resilient. So its a downgrade.
    - seanp2k2 12y ago
      "But it's thinner!" Meanwhile, everyone seems to want a more durable phone / more battery life. The result is cases which can easily double the total thickness of the phone just to protect it. I personally miss the OG Droid / HTC Windows Mobile phones that could take 2 years of beating and still be going strong. I'd gladly take an iPhone 7 twice as thick as the 6 if it was waterproof, droppable from 10ft, and could last 16 hours of heavy use after the battery had been abused for 2 years.
interrupt13 12y ago
Do CR consider this a real defense? They've proven that the iPhone6's physical weaknesses pair it with the lowest end of the spectrum (by a wide margin). It is indeed more scientific than the empirical 'viral' story, but their results do not bode well for Apple.
- roghummal 12y ago
  CR isn't presenting a defense. They did a few tests and presented the results. They then suggest the #BENDGATE drama is overblown.
LordHumungous 12y ago
Ok, a comparison to other phones is not that reassuring, because many phones on the market are flimsy. Compare it to the iPhone 5. That thing was built like a tank compared to the competition.
- PhantomGremlin 12y ago
  I traded my iPhone 5 in, because I got $200 for it. But I fear that the 5 will turn out to be the pinnacle of iPhone achievement. I wish I could have bought a new phone with the iPhone 5 case design but with useful tweaks like NFC and an improved camera.
  - Tloewald 12y ago
    The iPhone 4/s was even more solid, and I think very attractive. A stainless steel frame has its advantages (especially since I think weight is a non-issue with devices this small).
    - jp555 12y ago
      More solid but over 20% heavier than the 5. An iPhone4 weighs more than the much larger iPhone6. I think they're all under the maximum weight threshold for how much a device like this should weigh, but every time I pick up my wife's iPhone 4 it subjectively feels heavier than my iPad mini, even though it's less than 1/2 the weight.
      - LordHumungous 12y ago
        Yeah but having a 4oz phone vs a 5oz phone makes literally no difference to me. I'll gladly take a heavier phone if it means it is built more solidly.
        jp555 12y ago
        why not just use a big metal case then? That way when you want to go super-light, you can.
capkutay 12y ago
My biggest issue with Apple's response is they have not revealed their policy on what will happen if I come into apple care with a malformed phone. Will they blame me for putting it in my pocket wrong...or assure me that they can either replace it or give me some kind of case that lessens the risk of curving
- godDLL 12y ago
  If you come to a Genius Bar looking for help with your bent device they will inspect it visually, and if it doesn't look like it bent under extreme conditions they will replace it. The ultimate arbiter of "normal usage" vs. "extreme conditions" is the AppleCare professional, they aren't going to test your device with automated tools for that.
  - marincounty 12y ago
    I'm sorry, but I don't want to be at the mercy of the manager of the Apple store. I once questioned the way a Apple manager was treating a Salesperson who was helping me. Well I guess I the Manager was having a bad day-- he wouldn't sell me anything and ordered me to leave the store. Yes--I was banned from a Apple Store. I took a video of the Manager with an Apple phone and posted it on Youtube.(I took it down. I've always had a hard time with guy's who get a little bit of authority and it goes straight to their heads, so maybe I did something to piss him off?) After that incident, I realized there's a hard coded line of command at those stores and if the Manager says no--the other employees don't have any power. (If anyone from Apple reads this don't let store Managers abuse their position; you lose sales, and employee store moral goes out the window. You can guess which store it is from my name. Don't take my version of the story. Verify the incident with other employees, I don't think anyone would forget--it happened feb 1, 2013, and "The Manager" was Greg?)
    - godDLL 12y ago
      You can't get away from people. People will rule your life, whether you let them or not. People are the rule interpreters, enforcers and inventors, so even strict rules won't save you. And yes, virtually any corporation works somewhat like an army unit. Nothing strange about that.
bentcorner 12y ago
While I can't discount the possibility that the iPhone 6 may be more susceptible to bending damage, I'm sure that the high profile release and media coverage are pushing this out of proportion. Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epidemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epi...
- gojomo 12y ago
  If a media outlet is going to thrive with the modern internet masses, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.
- Spooky23 12y ago
  Sure it is blown out of proportion, any issue with Apple draws crazy headlines and overwrought debate. Remember the nonsensical antenna gate "death grip"?
  - XorNot 12y ago
    So nonsensical Apple wound up firing the engineer in charge of the design, a man no one would have otherwise known the name or job of?
officer_gotcha 12y ago
Two things I see: a) iphone takes a lot less to bend than the rest of the lot and b) bends/breaks at exactly the same places where it does in the pocket. This sort of confirms the user reports. Also, no torques were calculated, so it is really hard to tell which phone takes more to break.
userbinator 12y ago
One difference between plastic and aluminium is that the latter tends to retain deformation more than plastic, which flexes and then returns to its original shape. This is exacerbated by the fact that aluminium cases are usually made much thinner than plastic ones to reduce weight and cost. Also the peak force produced by the impact of e.g. bumping against something with the phone in your pocket could be much more than a constant force of the bend test they used, and easily exceed the elastic limit. If you compare the thickness of the material in an iPhone 5 vs 6 casing, I'd bet on the latter being somewhat thinner. If that picture of the iPhone 5 is after 150lbs were applied to it, I don't see much "case separation", only a slight bend. It could probably take a bit more force before something catastrophic happened. So it is possible that those used to the robustness of an iPhone 5 are the ones bending their new iPhone 6s.
suprgeek 12y ago
Almost all the bending reports are for the iPhone 6+ bending & twisting at/close to the volume-down button when placed in pockets etc. Placing the phone between two flat blocks and applying pressure at the exact center (three-point-test) will NOT test for this specific issue. Even then it should be pretty suspicious that in the test conducted, the new phones are at the bottom of the stiffness list. On another front, the Apple response is textbook - Deny, Minimize, (deride the press), then grudgingly make changes even while insisting that none were needed to begin with. Expect the next lot of these phones to experience a sudden stiffening.
- IBM 12y ago
  "You're bending it wrong"
  - fredfoobar 12y ago
    "Just bend it the other way"
    - nkjoep 12y ago
      "Bend different."
  - seanp2k2 12y ago
    That was also my first though -- they'll recommend that concerned iPhone 6 owners buy stiff-back cases. Is it a coincidence that the silicon cases for the 6 /6+ are stiff and fully wrap the back vs the bumper design they used for previous generations?
    - pdpi 12y ago
      I'm pretty sure they only did bumper cases for the 4/4s?
    - valleyer 12y ago
      Given that Apple also sold "around the back" cases for the last two years' gens of phones, something easily verifiable on the internet, yes, it is a coincidence. There are enough actual things here to criticize Apple for. No need to create conspiracy theories
abandonliberty 12y ago
iPhone 6: Now twice as bendy! Confirms that the new iPhones are much bendier than the old ones.
everyone 12y ago
Didnt the viral stories mention heating as a factor? The heat of the device itself (building up by being contained by a tight pocket) + body heat. Writers of this article did not mention that at all.
- starky 12y ago
  If a phone got up to the temperatures where the materials were weakened in any significant way they would be burning the operator and have never passed regulatory testing.
jaunkst 12y ago
Lol, we actually tested this in the office after seeing this. The glaxaxy and htc one is considerably harder to bend. I sit on my HTC every day in my back pocket, which is a lot mor repetive stress that an iPhone bending in your front pocket.
tvon 12y ago
Christ, will the damn thing deform if I keep it in my pocket like I would any other phone or is it just a minuscule percentage of devices that have had photos re-posted in the LOLOMGWTF nature of these inane corporate allegiance squabbles? That is all I care about, I'm not trying to build a damn house out of these things.
- DAddYE 12y ago
  Probably if you'll not put the 6+ on your back pocket you should be good. Is taller and thinner and so weaker, easier to bend.
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    The reports came from people putting them in their front pants pockets and sitting. Your thigh is pretty strong.
- lpsz 12y ago
  Thank you for the first reasonable comment I've seen on this in a while. So much "lol" sensationalism and not much to say how much I, a fairly typical user, have to care about this.
- jgon 12y ago
  I think that you should just hold off buying it for a bit and wait for apple's response. This is admittedly anecdotal, but I know one person who bought the new 6 (not the 6+), and although it is a great phone in every respect he said that over the weekend he had it, it had bent in his front pocket (not his back). It is nothing egregious like the bend test videos, but when he sets it down on a table now it doesn't lie flat because there is a noticeable bend on the diagonal between the top and the bottom. He is now carrying it in his other pocket to try and get a similar bend the other way to even it out. I am sure that Apple will not let this issue just stand, although they will definitely work to minimize and downplay it publically, and a few months from now the next batch of iphones will have been stiffened and will be much better. One of the risks of being an early adopter and if you can hold off for a bit I'm sure you'll get a stronger phone.
moeedm 12y ago
This is getting fucking ridiculous.
Manapp 12y ago
sounds like apple paid these guys to do this report...
- gress 12y ago
  You don't think the bending reports are paid for by someone?
  - verroq 12y ago
    You don't think he got paid to post here? /s But seriously they didn't do the test properly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg
discardorama 12y ago
I dunno... 70lbs doesn't seem that much, given some of the backsides I've seen in the US. Just sayin'...
k-mcgrady 12y ago
From what I've read most (of the few that there are) bending cases happened with a 6+ in the back pocket. If you stuff a giant phone into your pocket and then sit on it, and then it bends, tough shit. What do you expect?
- happyscrappy 12y ago
  People are stupid, especially when complaining.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
What the man in the viral video did was focusing the force in ONE POINT, not in a line like in this experiment. He focuses the force on the lateral side of the iPhone in order to bend it. This is probably not very representative of having your phone in your pocket as Apple says but makes for an impressive video that gives you views(and money).
wodenokoto 12y ago
How much money does an article or a youtube video generate? It seems that this one article alone must have cost thousands of dollars in equipment alone. And while the iphone 6 bend video on youtube has almost 40 million hits now, the unbox therapy user who uploaded it hits less than 500.000 views on average for their other videos. I'm willing to believe that 40 million views on youtube can be monitized to pay for more than an iphone 6, but I'm not so sure about the 2-300k, so it seems like quite the investment to go around breaking phones.
- andrewchambers 12y ago
  I have seen youtubers who live off youtube with average video views of 20-30k per upload. If an ad plays on 1/10 videos, and each ad makes the person 0.1 cent its still (30 million * 0.1 * 0.1) / 100 = 3 thousand dollars. Now take into account the added subscribers this adds which will make all future videos more profitable, and that I'm probably underestimating ad revenue, it is worth it.
- jfager 12y ago
  Video cpms can be well over $10, a 40M-view video could easily make a few $100k (though, of course, only a % of that ends up in the creator's pocket). 500k views could be a few thousand. Spread your equipment costs out over a bunch of videos and you're making some nice money.
Cowicide 12y ago
I'd rather see a test with robotic dummy legs (soft, human-like, padding material) wearing pants with various sized pockets and the phones placed inside said pockets (in various positions within pockets) and stress tested by bending the robotic legs over and over to simulate sitting down with a phone in one's pocket over time. It would be a much more time consuming, expensive and complex test, but I think I'd trust the results much more than what I'm seeing here.
chrisBob 12y ago
Sorry guys, You did the test backwards. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think most people place the phone with the screen in, so that it would bend toward the screen not away from it. The results could be significantly different in that direction, especially since the major mode of failure was the screen separating from the case.
Someone 12y ago
I think http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-empzeal/ http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-empzeal/ ("how Gauss taught us to hold a pizzeria slice"; discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529) is relevant here. The phones most resistent to bending in their length axis have back sides that are curved. That makes the backside contribute to the strength of the phone in the bending direction. Flat backsides will bend easily, so the relatively tiny vertical sides (and any ribs inside the phone, but those are rare due to lack of room) are the main parts contributing to strength. That's why the iPhone's weakest point is near a slot in those sides.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
51Cards 12y ago
Here's my concern on a quick look at the aftermath photos. They bent the phone in the middle, where it's admittedly not that weak. If you look at most of the user damage photos the phone bends towards the top end where the button cut-outs weaken it. The phone did fail around the buttons as well but it's still bent in the middle from the tests. It appears their setup didn't stress it where the problems are occurring. My estimation would be if you placed a load equidistant between the top of the phone and the middle, stressing the buttons area specifically, you would see a large difference in performance between models. The pocket issue seems to be "bending over" the top of the phone, not applying point loads across the length of the body.
- msandford 12y ago
  The phone will actually perform better being bent this way as the distribution of stresses goes from pure torque (compression on top, stretching on the bottom) in the middle (where the load is applied) to pure shear at the edges where it is supported. The iPhone6 has a weak spot for torque at about 1/3 of the way from the top where there are some buttons. This test didn't stress that as aggressively as it could have. I suspect that it would perform 20-30% worse if you loaded it at the weak point. The real issue here is that the phone both grew in length and was reduced in strength at the same time. That means that actions which previously didn't approach the elastic deformation limit of the phone now are. No change in behavior => change in result especially one with negative outcomes is going to get people riled up.
S_A_P 12y ago
While it's certainly important that apple build a phone that is strong enough to withstand daily use, these "tests" are sensationalist click bait. Maybe it's just me, but I'm going to be careful how I treat 6-800 device. If it doesn't really fit in my pocket, I need to buy bigger pants. If it's too big to fit jammed in somewhere then get the smaller one. There is a level of entitlement here that is thinks every new phone needs to be nuclear capable but also thinner, lighter and more svelte than the previous generation. I have plenty of expensive gear that I have to treat with kid gloves and I'm not making YouTube videos about how it's bullshit...

229 points by eglover 12y ago

I don't think apple would ever influence online content to say that they are not as bendy. That would be unfair. Give them a break guys! Consumer report isnt making any money on this.

shawndumas 12y ago

Phone Deformation Case Separation ----------------------------------------------------- HTC One (M8) 70 lbs. 90 lbs. Apple iPhone 6 70 lbs. 100 lbs. Apple iPhone 6 Plus 90 lbs. 110 lbs. LG G3 130 lbs. 130 lbs. Apple iPhone 5 130 lbs. 150 lbs. Samsung Galaxy Note 3 150 lbs. 150 lbs. Direct link to the video http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/3809044640001/ http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/3809044640001/

deleted 12y ago
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Mithaldu 12y ago
First off, their own results show that the 6 series is considerable weaker than the 5 series. Secondly, they applied that force for 30 seconds and got significant deformation. I'm fairly sure that, given more time, they'd reach the less significant deformation reported and shown by others, with less force.
- UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
  Your second point is a valid good one to at least consider. However just playing devil's advocate: 9 returns to Apple (assuming that figure is true) is absolutely trivial relative to the units shipped. I think it will be interesting to see where we stand in 6 months time. Will we see tons more phones return?
  - mwfunk 12y ago
    That's really the only meaningful question here. It doesn't matter if it's quantifiably more likely to bend, what matters is if that results in enough phones getting damaged in normal usage to be an actual issue for people. No one will know that for a while. Non-ECC memory is more likely to get corrupted than ECC memory, but that doesn't mean that every single person who uses a computing device should be using ECC memory. Just because one thing is quantifiably less robust than something else is meaningless without a concept of "how robust does it need to be?" Obviously the company thinks the phones have sufficient tolerances. A few people on the Internet have posted firsthand accounts that they think proves that the phones are inadequate. A much larger group of people on the Internet who don't like the company that makes the phones practically salivate over these sorts of events, and have been making sure that absolutely everyone who reads any tech forums is HIGHLY AWARE that this is a very important thing that we should all know and care about very, very deeply. Journalists of course will write about this stuff because many of them interpret their job as writing about whatever people are talking about. Which brings us to the present, in which the only truth that anyone can point to is: no one actually knows if this is actually a problem or not. The only way to answer that question is to wait and see how many returns there are due to breakage. For people who care about truth, well, that's the truth, boring as it may be. In a few months we'll find out if a big company might make less money because somebody should've used a bigger number on a spreadsheet. Exciting! On the other hand, for people who care about arguing about things on the Internet, well, to hell with them, honestly.
- idlewords 12y ago
  The results show that the 6 series is similar in strength to phones of that size from other manufacturers. It stands to reason that a smaller, thicker phone like the iPhone 5 will be more rigid (though it's interesting that it's easier to deform a 6 than a 6+).
  - bane 12y ago
    No, the results show that there's as much as a 50% difference in the results between top and bottom. That's a huge difference in structural terms.
    - idlewords 12y ago
      Yeah, some of the phones in the test are quite hard to bend, and some are extremely hard to bend. In that sense there's a difference.
      - bane 12y ago
        It's the difference between "I can bend/break it with my bare hands" to "I can't bend/break it with my bare hands". Things stronger than humans tend to last better under use by humans.
        baddox 12y ago
        I can choose not to bend/break my phone with my bare hands. That's good enough for me.
        seanp2k2 12y ago
        Sure, but I think the point is more the "when you have it in the front pocket of your skinny jeans and drunkenly run a bit into the edge of a counter top" case that could very reasonably happen in a 2-year replacement cycle of such a device. Personally, I'll be getting a rigid case that covers the back and sides.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  Deformation depends a lot more on the force than on how long the force is applied. There is a critical point where a material will permanently deform rather than springing back. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_(engineering) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_(engineering)
bane 12y ago
Wow. glad to know my Note 3, as big as it is, is class leading in this particular test. It's definitely a top-notch piece of hardware in every other way. From specs to hardware build the iPhone 6 just seems really behind the curve and very "blah". The iPhone 5 was definitely a class leading phone in the hand before this test, feeling like a beautiful instrument. This test is proving it too is a fantastically put together device from a durability POV. The 6 is very ho hum and I'm adding this to my list of ho hum things about it. It's not a bad phone, but not a great, class leading one in any way either. I never really thought I'd see the day that a Korean phone designed by a completely anonymous corporate industrial design drone really beat the socks off of Apple's offering, and yet it appears to have happened this year. All that being said, #bendgate is seriously overblown, just like antenna-gate. This is most likely a desire to hit Apple where it hurts the most, image, in order to extract free stuff/lower price/whatever like what happened last time with antenna-gate.
- GuiA 12y ago
  > From specs to hardware build the iPhone 6 just seems really behind the curve Obviously people see what they want to see, but: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-preliminary-results http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plu...
  - bane 12y ago
    Specwise it looks like a top-end phone from last year. RAM, screen, etc. I'm glad to see it's doing well in the javascript benchmarks at least. Speaks highly of Apple's nitro engine.
    - Geee 12y ago
      No, iPhone's A8 is optimized for single-core performance, which is way more meaningful in real applications than combined multi-core performance. 99% of apps run on single core. Although, A8's combined multi-core performance is also on par with other high-end smartphones. See comparison to SGS5 in Geekbench 3: http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/iPhone-6-vs-Galaxy-S5-benchmark-test-b.jpg http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/wp-content/phoneimages/iPhone-...
PhantomGremlin 12y ago
Sigh. Even that link causes Safari on OS X to display an image saying: WE'RE SORRY You need to update your Flash Player So, by default, the Consumer Reports website is non-functional with those customers who are most likely to have an iPhone. I then visited consumerreports.org using my non-bent iPhone6 and wonder of wonders, the video played. Morons.

saool 12y ago

doesn't look like they applied pressure on the spot near the volume rocker where it apparently has the defect.

2muchcoffeeman 12y ago
That doesn't sound right. If you look at their tests of the iPhone 5, the LG G3 and the Galaxy Note 3, they clearly bend off centre, where I assume there is a weak point. This whole thing is stupid. I have an iPhone 6 and it just barely fit comfortably in my front pocket. If it's just a bit off I find it awkward and uncomfortable. I would love to see tests involving the real people who are bending their phones in their pockets. a) to measure the forces in their pockets and b) to see how they can stand that sort of discomfort. Edit: I'll be specific. When I am standing the phone fits fine in my jeans. It's not great when I try and sit. In some positions it's ok. But in my head I was implying that if it's uncomfortable, I take it out of my pocket. The 6 is definitely the limit of any phone I'd buy.
- idlewords 12y ago
  You are complaining that the big phone you bought doesn't fit comfortably in your pocket. I don't even know what to say. With regard to a weak point, the phone would bend there first in these tests if such a thing existed. That's how weak points work.
  - zaroth 12y ago
    The problem is a bit more subtle than that. If you're highly vested into the iOS ecosystem, and you need a new phone, you want to get the latest and greatest, but the 6 is just too big for some people. My wife and I stopped in the Apple store today, and she saw the 6 and 6+ for the first time. She has a 4s (4.5") vs the iP6 @ 5.4" is quite large by comparison. "Nope, too big. I want the same size as mine but that thin" was all she had to say about it. It's a bit sad that her 4s is starting to show its age, and instead of a 6 she's likely get a 5s instead. I think a lot of people are wishing for a 5-sized 6. I'm hoping my 5 will last two more years and that Apple will have a new release by then that's < 5".

virtuabhi 12y ago

If I remember correctly, in the original iPhone 6+ bend video[1], the force was applied both at the top and bottom. Wouldn't that produce more torque (with respect to centre of mass) and maybe result in quicker bending? The ConsumerReport machine applies force only at the centre. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znK652H6yQM

oldmanjay 12y ago
only applying force at the center would be a push

mschuster91 12y ago

45kg? Put your phone in your back pocket and sit down... if you're a bit more fat than usual, 45kg is easily achieved. I killed four phones to date simply by accidentally sitting down on them.

aroch 12y ago
... Stop sitting on your phone. Would you put your laptop of the edge of a chair and sit on it?
icelancer 12y ago
>I killed four phones to date simply by accidentally sitting down on them. Uh. Don't sit on them? Who does this?
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  People who can afford to buy and mistreat a lot of phones, apparently.
baddox 12y ago
Putting your phone in your back pocket and sitting down is in the same class of abuse as jumping into a swimming pool with your phone in your pocket. I would never expect any phone to survive either.
- Gustomaximus 12y ago
  Sony Xperia z2 & z3 are both waterproof. Quite amazing phones. A couple more generations and this could be the standard.
  - XorNot 12y ago
    Galaxy S5 is as well.
  - bergie 12y ago
    Yep. This was probably the first actually interesting unboxing video I've seen: http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y http://youtu.be/uIf9GdCzY_Y (unboxing Z3 under water)

abduhl 12y ago

This test shows a severe lack of understanding of flexural strength testing. This test is a bastardization of the three point bending test that is commonly performed for peak bending strength analysis of materials. Bending is a result of moments and moments are driven by moment arms. These tests should not be looking at point load required to induce deformation but rather the moment required to induce deformation. Each of these should have been converted into equivalent moments based on the size of the phone. For example, the M8 is shown as 146.3 mm (5.76 in) H; 70.6 mm (2.78 in) W; 9.4 mm (0.37 in) D and the iPhone 6 is 138.1 x 67 x 6.9 mm (5.44 x 2.64 x 0.27 in) and both are shown to "deform" at 70 lbs. The M8 has an induced moment of 100 lb-in while the iPhone 6 has an induced moment of 95 lb-in. The resultant bending stress by assuming a linear stress distribution across the section is then 1575 psi for the M8 and 2950 psi for the iPhone 6. Similar analyses should be undertaken for each of the other phones. A more accurate test for the failure mode of concern would be a four point load test in which moment is constant across a portion of the phone. The three point load test induces a moment that is maximum at the point of load application. The four point load test is more likely to show you where the point of weakness in the phone is.

knowaveragejoe 12y ago
So what does this ultimately mean? Seems like you can bend any given modern smartphone, given enough force. Is the iPhone 6 more likely to bend under average conditions? Is there any substance to the hubbub about bending 6's? A lot of jargon in your response, is this lengthy response just to point out that their methodology is flawed or are you making a point about the case at hand?
- fit2rule 12y ago
  The point is things got worse from iPhone 5 -> 6 .. the case got less resilient. So its a downgrade.
  - seanp2k2 12y ago
    "But it's thinner!" Meanwhile, everyone seems to want a more durable phone / more battery life. The result is cases which can easily double the total thickness of the phone just to protect it. I personally miss the OG Droid / HTC Windows Mobile phones that could take 2 years of beating and still be going strong. I'd gladly take an iPhone 7 twice as thick as the 6 if it was waterproof, droppable from 10ft, and could last 16 hours of heavy use after the battery had been abused for 2 years.

interrupt13 12y ago

Do CR consider this a real defense? They've proven that the iPhone6's physical weaknesses pair it with the lowest end of the spectrum (by a wide margin). It is indeed more scientific than the empirical 'viral' story, but their results do not bode well for Apple.

roghummal 12y ago
CR isn't presenting a defense. They did a few tests and presented the results. They then suggest the #BENDGATE drama is overblown.

LordHumungous 12y ago

Ok, a comparison to other phones is not that reassuring, because many phones on the market are flimsy. Compare it to the iPhone 5. That thing was built like a tank compared to the competition.

PhantomGremlin 12y ago
I traded my iPhone 5 in, because I got $200 for it. But I fear that the 5 will turn out to be the pinnacle of iPhone achievement. I wish I could have bought a new phone with the iPhone 5 case design but with useful tweaks like NFC and an improved camera.
- Tloewald 12y ago
  The iPhone 4/s was even more solid, and I think very attractive. A stainless steel frame has its advantages (especially since I think weight is a non-issue with devices this small).
  - jp555 12y ago
    More solid but over 20% heavier than the 5. An iPhone4 weighs more than the much larger iPhone6. I think they're all under the maximum weight threshold for how much a device like this should weigh, but every time I pick up my wife's iPhone 4 it subjectively feels heavier than my iPad mini, even though it's less than 1/2 the weight.
    - LordHumungous 12y ago
      Yeah but having a 4oz phone vs a 5oz phone makes literally no difference to me. I'll gladly take a heavier phone if it means it is built more solidly.
      - jp555 12y ago
        why not just use a big metal case then? That way when you want to go super-light, you can.

capkutay 12y ago

My biggest issue with Apple's response is they have not revealed their policy on what will happen if I come into apple care with a malformed phone. Will they blame me for putting it in my pocket wrong...or assure me that they can either replace it or give me some kind of case that lessens the risk of curving

godDLL 12y ago
If you come to a Genius Bar looking for help with your bent device they will inspect it visually, and if it doesn't look like it bent under extreme conditions they will replace it. The ultimate arbiter of "normal usage" vs. "extreme conditions" is the AppleCare professional, they aren't going to test your device with automated tools for that.
- marincounty 12y ago
  I'm sorry, but I don't want to be at the mercy of the manager of the Apple store. I once questioned the way a Apple manager was treating a Salesperson who was helping me. Well I guess I the Manager was having a bad day-- he wouldn't sell me anything and ordered me to leave the store. Yes--I was banned from a Apple Store. I took a video of the Manager with an Apple phone and posted it on Youtube.(I took it down. I've always had a hard time with guy's who get a little bit of authority and it goes straight to their heads, so maybe I did something to piss him off?) After that incident, I realized there's a hard coded line of command at those stores and if the Manager says no--the other employees don't have any power. (If anyone from Apple reads this don't let store Managers abuse their position; you lose sales, and employee store moral goes out the window. You can guess which store it is from my name. Don't take my version of the story. Verify the incident with other employees, I don't think anyone would forget--it happened feb 1, 2013, and "The Manager" was Greg?)
  - godDLL 12y ago
    You can't get away from people. People will rule your life, whether you let them or not. People are the rule interpreters, enforcers and inventors, so even strict rules won't save you. And yes, virtually any corporation works somewhat like an army unit. Nothing strange about that.

bentcorner 12y ago

While I can't discount the possibility that the iPhone 6 may be more susceptible to bending damage, I'm sure that the high profile release and media coverage are pushing this out of proportion. Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epidemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Windshield_Pitting_Epi...

gojomo 12y ago
If a media outlet is going to thrive with the modern internet masses, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.
Spooky23 12y ago
Sure it is blown out of proportion, any issue with Apple draws crazy headlines and overwrought debate. Remember the nonsensical antenna gate "death grip"?
- XorNot 12y ago
  So nonsensical Apple wound up firing the engineer in charge of the design, a man no one would have otherwise known the name or job of?

officer_gotcha 12y ago

Two things I see: a) iphone takes a lot less to bend than the rest of the lot and b) bends/breaks at exactly the same places where it does in the pocket. This sort of confirms the user reports. Also, no torques were calculated, so it is really hard to tell which phone takes more to break.

userbinator 12y ago

One difference between plastic and aluminium is that the latter tends to retain deformation more than plastic, which flexes and then returns to its original shape. This is exacerbated by the fact that aluminium cases are usually made much thinner than plastic ones to reduce weight and cost. Also the peak force produced by the impact of e.g. bumping against something with the phone in your pocket could be much more than a constant force of the bend test they used, and easily exceed the elastic limit. If you compare the thickness of the material in an iPhone 5 vs 6 casing, I'd bet on the latter being somewhat thinner. If that picture of the iPhone 5 is after 150lbs were applied to it, I don't see much "case separation", only a slight bend. It could probably take a bit more force before something catastrophic happened. So it is possible that those used to the robustness of an iPhone 5 are the ones bending their new iPhone 6s.

suprgeek 12y ago

Almost all the bending reports are for the iPhone 6+ bending & twisting at/close to the volume-down button when placed in pockets etc. Placing the phone between two flat blocks and applying pressure at the exact center (three-point-test) will NOT test for this specific issue. Even then it should be pretty suspicious that in the test conducted, the new phones are at the bottom of the stiffness list. On another front, the Apple response is textbook - Deny, Minimize, (deride the press), then grudgingly make changes even while insisting that none were needed to begin with. Expect the next lot of these phones to experience a sudden stiffening.

IBM 12y ago
"You're bending it wrong"
- fredfoobar 12y ago
  "Just bend it the other way"
  - nkjoep 12y ago
    "Bend different."
- seanp2k2 12y ago
  That was also my first though -- they'll recommend that concerned iPhone 6 owners buy stiff-back cases. Is it a coincidence that the silicon cases for the 6 /6+ are stiff and fully wrap the back vs the bumper design they used for previous generations?
  - pdpi 12y ago
    I'm pretty sure they only did bumper cases for the 4/4s?
  - valleyer 12y ago
    Given that Apple also sold "around the back" cases for the last two years' gens of phones, something easily verifiable on the internet, yes, it is a coincidence. There are enough actual things here to criticize Apple for. No need to create conspiracy theories

abandonliberty 12y ago

iPhone 6: Now twice as bendy! Confirms that the new iPhones are much bendier than the old ones.

everyone 12y ago

Didnt the viral stories mention heating as a factor? The heat of the device itself (building up by being contained by a tight pocket) + body heat. Writers of this article did not mention that at all.

starky 12y ago
If a phone got up to the temperatures where the materials were weakened in any significant way they would be burning the operator and have never passed regulatory testing.

jaunkst 12y ago

Lol, we actually tested this in the office after seeing this. The glaxaxy and htc one is considerably harder to bend. I sit on my HTC every day in my back pocket, which is a lot mor repetive stress that an iPhone bending in your front pocket.

tvon 12y ago

Christ, will the damn thing deform if I keep it in my pocket like I would any other phone or is it just a minuscule percentage of devices that have had photos re-posted in the LOLOMGWTF nature of these inane corporate allegiance squabbles? That is all I care about, I'm not trying to build a damn house out of these things.

DAddYE 12y ago
Probably if you'll not put the 6+ on your back pocket you should be good. Is taller and thinner and so weaker, easier to bend.
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  The reports came from people putting them in their front pants pockets and sitting. Your thigh is pretty strong.
lpsz 12y ago
Thank you for the first reasonable comment I've seen on this in a while. So much "lol" sensationalism and not much to say how much I, a fairly typical user, have to care about this.
jgon 12y ago
I think that you should just hold off buying it for a bit and wait for apple's response. This is admittedly anecdotal, but I know one person who bought the new 6 (not the 6+), and although it is a great phone in every respect he said that over the weekend he had it, it had bent in his front pocket (not his back). It is nothing egregious like the bend test videos, but when he sets it down on a table now it doesn't lie flat because there is a noticeable bend on the diagonal between the top and the bottom. He is now carrying it in his other pocket to try and get a similar bend the other way to even it out. I am sure that Apple will not let this issue just stand, although they will definitely work to minimize and downplay it publically, and a few months from now the next batch of iphones will have been stiffened and will be much better. One of the risks of being an early adopter and if you can hold off for a bit I'm sure you'll get a stronger phone.

moeedm 12y ago

This is getting fucking ridiculous.

Manapp 12y ago

sounds like apple paid these guys to do this report...

gress 12y ago
You don't think the bending reports are paid for by someone?
- verroq 12y ago
  You don't think he got paid to post here? /s But seriously they didn't do the test properly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ3Ds6uf0Yg

discardorama 12y ago

I dunno... 70lbs doesn't seem that much, given some of the backsides I've seen in the US. Just sayin'...

k-mcgrady 12y ago

From what I've read most (of the few that there are) bending cases happened with a 6+ in the back pocket. If you stuff a giant phone into your pocket and then sit on it, and then it bends, tough shit. What do you expect?

happyscrappy 12y ago
People are stupid, especially when complaining.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

What the man in the viral video did was focusing the force in ONE POINT, not in a line like in this experiment. He focuses the force on the lateral side of the iPhone in order to bend it. This is probably not very representative of having your phone in your pocket as Apple says but makes for an impressive video that gives you views(and money).

wodenokoto 12y ago

How much money does an article or a youtube video generate? It seems that this one article alone must have cost thousands of dollars in equipment alone. And while the iphone 6 bend video on youtube has almost 40 million hits now, the unbox therapy user who uploaded it hits less than 500.000 views on average for their other videos. I'm willing to believe that 40 million views on youtube can be monitized to pay for more than an iphone 6, but I'm not so sure about the 2-300k, so it seems like quite the investment to go around breaking phones.

andrewchambers 12y ago
I have seen youtubers who live off youtube with average video views of 20-30k per upload. If an ad plays on 1/10 videos, and each ad makes the person 0.1 cent its still (30 million * 0.1 * 0.1) / 100 = 3 thousand dollars. Now take into account the added subscribers this adds which will make all future videos more profitable, and that I'm probably underestimating ad revenue, it is worth it.
jfager 12y ago
Video cpms can be well over $10, a 40M-view video could easily make a few $100k (though, of course, only a % of that ends up in the creator's pocket). 500k views could be a few thousand. Spread your equipment costs out over a bunch of videos and you're making some nice money.

Cowicide 12y ago

I'd rather see a test with robotic dummy legs (soft, human-like, padding material) wearing pants with various sized pockets and the phones placed inside said pockets (in various positions within pockets) and stress tested by bending the robotic legs over and over to simulate sitting down with a phone in one's pocket over time. It would be a much more time consuming, expensive and complex test, but I think I'd trust the results much more than what I'm seeing here.

chrisBob 12y ago

Sorry guys, You did the test backwards. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think most people place the phone with the screen in, so that it would bend toward the screen not away from it. The results could be significantly different in that direction, especially since the major mode of failure was the screen separating from the case.

Someone 12y ago

I think http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-empzeal/ http://www.wired.com/2014/09/curvature-and-strength-empzeal/ ("how Gauss taught us to hold a pizzeria slice"; discussion at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8274529) is relevant here. The phones most resistent to bending in their length axis have back sides that are curved. That makes the backside contribute to the strength of the phone in the bending direction. Flat backsides will bend easily, so the relatively tiny vertical sides (and any ribs inside the phone, but those are rare due to lack of room) are the main parts contributing to strength. That's why the iPhone's weakest point is near a slot in those sides.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

51Cards 12y ago

Here's my concern on a quick look at the aftermath photos. They bent the phone in the middle, where it's admittedly not that weak. If you look at most of the user damage photos the phone bends towards the top end where the button cut-outs weaken it. The phone did fail around the buttons as well but it's still bent in the middle from the tests. It appears their setup didn't stress it where the problems are occurring. My estimation would be if you placed a load equidistant between the top of the phone and the middle, stressing the buttons area specifically, you would see a large difference in performance between models. The pocket issue seems to be "bending over" the top of the phone, not applying point loads across the length of the body.

msandford 12y ago
The phone will actually perform better being bent this way as the distribution of stresses goes from pure torque (compression on top, stretching on the bottom) in the middle (where the load is applied) to pure shear at the edges where it is supported. The iPhone6 has a weak spot for torque at about 1/3 of the way from the top where there are some buttons. This test didn't stress that as aggressively as it could have. I suspect that it would perform 20-30% worse if you loaded it at the weak point. The real issue here is that the phone both grew in length and was reduced in strength at the same time. That means that actions which previously didn't approach the elastic deformation limit of the phone now are. No change in behavior => change in result especially one with negative outcomes is going to get people riled up.

S_A_P 12y ago

While it's certainly important that apple build a phone that is strong enough to withstand daily use, these "tests" are sensationalist click bait. Maybe it's just me, but I'm going to be careful how I treat 6-800 device. If it doesn't really fit in my pocket, I need to buy bigger pants. If it's too big to fit jammed in somewhere then get the smaller one. There is a level of entitlement here that is thinks every new phone needs to be nuclear capable but also thinner, lighter and more svelte than the previous generation. I have plenty of expensive gear that I have to treat with kid gloves and I'm not making YouTube videos about how it's bullshit...