13 ms·

The advice about burnout isn't so helpful. Yes, perseverance is important (particularly for undergrads, who have probably never worked on a project with a time

by timr 12y ago

The advice about burnout isn't so helpful. Yes, perseverance is important (particularly for undergrads, who have probably never worked on a project with a time horizon longer than a semester), but you can't fix burnout just by lowering your head and trudging forward like a packhorse. I don't know if there's a single, quick fix for burnout, but taking a vacation is definitely a good idea -- even if it's only a few days. And if you can't take your mind off of what you're doing for a few days, something else is wrong. Usually when people say "I can't take a break" they're engaging in catastrophic thinking. If for some reason they really can't take a break, it's time to take a good, hard look at how you're doing things, and see what it is that's causing that situation. In my experience, the root to your burnout will often lie in an honest exploration of that question, alone. It's incredibly helpful to get an outside perspective on your situation when you feel this way -- this is what counseling is for. If you can't afford that, talk honestly with a friend you can trust -- a friend who has no personal interest in the outcome. That's critical. If you ask your co-founder what you should do, you have to realize that s/he'll be biased.

hkmurakami 12y ago
Agreed. "Work smart, not hard" is very cliche by now, but it very much rings true. Working blindly burning the midnight oil is the easy way out with suspended thought. As my friend says, "If you can't take a few days off at a startup, you're doing something wrong. Yes you need to work hard, but honestly not that hard." Great point about talking to someone with no vested interest.
- McDoku 12y ago
  I am quoting way to much Clausewitz on HN lately...but “Two qualities are indispensable: first, an intellect that, even in the darkest hour, retains some glimmerings of the inner light which leads to truth; and second, the courage to follow this faint light wherever it may lead.” ―Carl von Clausewitz It is like the navy SEALS. You can ring the bell any time to end hell week. Don't ring that bell. Stress like dehydration is a self inflicted wound. I have found myself coping with extreme stress using meditative practice to manage when I get to far but forgetting it in the good times. That is definitely a sin of mine. You gotta manage your 'chi'. I mean that as a metaphor of life energy and that is 100% real. It is like your mana in an MMO. It is morale, it is rest, it is breathing right, it is exercise, it emotional connectedness, it is appreciation, it is respect...it is letting go and moving with the wave. Not recognizing a point of diminishing returns happens to most of us. And it is good to know your limits and recognize the signs. Overworking yourself once intentionally ( when it will not do damage). Get a spotter(weight lifting) even. It is good to know your points of failure. Then build and expand those limits. Learn to recognize the signs in yourself and in others.
ub 12y ago
Usually, I have found that taking a step back and understanding that the startup is a part of your life, and not your entire life (even though it may feel like it consumes you),helps in preventing burnout. Having friends and family around or even a hobby can help. The other tip I have discovered is looking at the burnout as a problem solving exercise. Think of why everything seems hard, why you're not motivated, figure out which parts you can solve and which you can't, and solve the parts you can, piece by piece.
- prawn 12y ago
  And do that away from and without your computer. Pencil and paper in the back yard, or a short drive away, if you can't take a proper holiday.
jonalmeida 12y ago
It's odd to stay, but taking a break is also needs to be done correctly. You need to find the best way to completely free your find of the project. Simply not working on it at the moment isn't enough. When I had a short burnout, I tried playing games in order to help, but my mind was still on the project so time passed and still I just couldn't get back to it.
graycat 12y ago
"Burn out" can be serious stuff. Often it has the clinical description of depression or even clinical depression, and the second of these two can be life threatening. E.g., stress is a common cause of depression, and a startup CEO under constant, severe stress is at risk of depression. One issue is, too many high achievers actually have a case of perfectionism and/or obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), and those conditions can lead to stress, depression, clinical depression, and suicide. Treating OCD is not easy. How do I know? I learned the hard way and "paid full tuition". The OCD case was not me but was my wife. Trust me; I know far too well just what the heck I'm talking about.
DenisM 12y ago
Marissa Mayer on burnout: "Burnout is about resentment," she said. "It's about knowing what matters to you so much that if you don't get it that you're resentful." http://www.cnbc.com/id/49060108# http://www.cnbc.com/id/49060108#.
- timr 12y ago
  Maybe for her.
  - pandler 12y ago
    Is that not true for any piece of advice or introspection?
    - timr 12y ago
      Some advice is more generalizable than others.
- dlss 12y ago
  There's a literature on burnout. Burnout is the qualitative word for stress induced sterility -- ie "Things are so bad that having a child right now would be disastrous" (ie people reporting burnout are usually temporarily sterile, people who are "stressed but happy" are usually not sterile) This is why burnout correlates so strongly with being overworked. Your body is rightly concluding it can't reproduce in your current situation, and gives you a strong prod toward fixing the problem. Apparently Marissa's "resentful meter" correlates strongly with her body's "I can't reproduce in this situation meter". I don't think this is true for most people.
  - DarkIye 12y ago
    That's a very interesting theory, but quick googling doesn't bring up anything relating to this correlation you suggest. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?
    - 12y ago
jkaunisv1 12y ago
I was surprised that was his answer to burnout. I read The Power of Full Engagement (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743226755 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743226755) and it really helped frame the problem for me. Taking vacations is definitely going to be difficult for a founder, but you can build recovery into your daily schedule and it really really helps. Meditating, playing an instrument, making art, exercising and playing sports, lunch with a friend - you can do these for half an hour, an hour a day and they yield results.

by timr 12y ago

hkmurakami 12y ago

Agreed. "Work smart, not hard" is very cliche by now, but it very much rings true. Working blindly burning the midnight oil is the easy way out with suspended thought. As my friend says, "If you can't take a few days off at a startup, you're doing something wrong. Yes you need to work hard, but honestly not that hard." Great point about talking to someone with no vested interest.

McDoku 12y ago
I am quoting way to much Clausewitz on HN lately...but “Two qualities are indispensable: first, an intellect that, even in the darkest hour, retains some glimmerings of the inner light which leads to truth; and second, the courage to follow this faint light wherever it may lead.” ―Carl von Clausewitz It is like the navy SEALS. You can ring the bell any time to end hell week. Don't ring that bell. Stress like dehydration is a self inflicted wound. I have found myself coping with extreme stress using meditative practice to manage when I get to far but forgetting it in the good times. That is definitely a sin of mine. You gotta manage your 'chi'. I mean that as a metaphor of life energy and that is 100% real. It is like your mana in an MMO. It is morale, it is rest, it is breathing right, it is exercise, it emotional connectedness, it is appreciation, it is respect...it is letting go and moving with the wave. Not recognizing a point of diminishing returns happens to most of us. And it is good to know your limits and recognize the signs. Overworking yourself once intentionally ( when it will not do damage). Get a spotter(weight lifting) even. It is good to know your points of failure. Then build and expand those limits. Learn to recognize the signs in yourself and in others.

ub 12y ago

Usually, I have found that taking a step back and understanding that the startup is a part of your life, and not your entire life (even though it may feel like it consumes you),helps in preventing burnout. Having friends and family around or even a hobby can help. The other tip I have discovered is looking at the burnout as a problem solving exercise. Think of why everything seems hard, why you're not motivated, figure out which parts you can solve and which you can't, and solve the parts you can, piece by piece.

prawn 12y ago
And do that away from and without your computer. Pencil and paper in the back yard, or a short drive away, if you can't take a proper holiday.

jonalmeida 12y ago

It's odd to stay, but taking a break is also needs to be done correctly. You need to find the best way to completely free your find of the project. Simply not working on it at the moment isn't enough. When I had a short burnout, I tried playing games in order to help, but my mind was still on the project so time passed and still I just couldn't get back to it.

graycat 12y ago

"Burn out" can be serious stuff. Often it has the clinical description of depression or even clinical depression, and the second of these two can be life threatening. E.g., stress is a common cause of depression, and a startup CEO under constant, severe stress is at risk of depression. One issue is, too many high achievers actually have a case of perfectionism and/or obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), and those conditions can lead to stress, depression, clinical depression, and suicide. Treating OCD is not easy. How do I know? I learned the hard way and "paid full tuition". The OCD case was not me but was my wife. Trust me; I know far too well just what the heck I'm talking about.

DenisM 12y ago

Marissa Mayer on burnout: "Burnout is about resentment," she said. "It's about knowing what matters to you so much that if you don't get it that you're resentful." http://www.cnbc.com/id/49060108# http://www.cnbc.com/id/49060108#.

timr 12y ago
Maybe for her.
- pandler 12y ago
  Is that not true for any piece of advice or introspection?
  - timr 12y ago
    Some advice is more generalizable than others.
dlss 12y ago
There's a literature on burnout. Burnout is the qualitative word for stress induced sterility -- ie "Things are so bad that having a child right now would be disastrous" (ie people reporting burnout are usually temporarily sterile, people who are "stressed but happy" are usually not sterile) This is why burnout correlates so strongly with being overworked. Your body is rightly concluding it can't reproduce in your current situation, and gives you a strong prod toward fixing the problem. Apparently Marissa's "resentful meter" correlates strongly with her body's "I can't reproduce in this situation meter". I don't think this is true for most people.
- DarkIye 12y ago
  That's a very interesting theory, but quick googling doesn't bring up anything relating to this correlation you suggest. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?
  - 12y ago

jkaunisv1 12y ago

I was surprised that was his answer to burnout. I read The Power of Full Engagement (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743226755 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0743226755) and it really helped frame the problem for me. Taking vacations is definitely going to be difficult for a founder, but you can build recovery into your daily schedule and it really really helps. Meditating, playing an instrument, making art, exercising and playing sports, lunch with a friend - you can do these for half an hour, an hour a day and they yield results.