7 ms·

"It's not enough to win, all others must fail" This isn't the DNA of a winner, this is the DNA of a sociopath.

by unclebunkers 12y ago

spindritf 12y ago
Maybe sociopathy is adaptive in the modern world.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  Only if we let it be.
  - spindritf 12y ago
    That's not really true. There's a very serious collective action problem and limits on what humans (can) find genuinely attractive. Which is why I added "in the modern world." In a tight-knit community sociopathic traits are probably much less beneficial than in an atomized, largely anonymous society.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      We address some collective action problems, with varying degrees of success (certainly, some things we fail horribly at are collective action problems). My statement wasn't meant to say, "Oh, it's simple, we just X!" Just that it's not necessarily outside the realm of things we could address. In particular, "adaptive" - when it comes to humans - is only relevant at time scales of many generations. Much changes over those time scales.
- fooaway 12y ago
  The traits are definitely overrepresented in the executive suite.
- IvyMike 12y ago
  This was the main message of American Psycho.
turnip1979 12y ago
I was told a variation of the original quote by a chess master at age < 8 (I loved chess as a kid and took some advanced classes). Thankfully, I don't recall ever acting on such advice.
parasubvert 12y ago
If you read Peter Thiel's latest book, his argument is for monopoly over competition. Which is just another way of saying, all competition must fail. So far, it's worked for Facebook. They have trampled their competition, or they just buy them.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  I read a piece by a (very reasonable) VC explaining the detriments of excess LP cash in the VC industry. The premise was that if 100 companies get funded in a space (say, local delivery) where normally, 10 companies would have, then even the ones who under normal circumstances would have "out competed" the others through superior service and product will have a tough time vs the torrent of cost cutting and "competition" from the slew of competitors, thereby making the entire industry unprofitable. In a way, it reminds me of the consumer electronics market, especially the laptop PC market. Fierce competition forced down profits, and now seemingly every company is focused on cost cutting rather than making something we actually want to use. Both consumers and producers have lost out (woe is me who cannot buy a quality thinkpad anymore!).
  - parasubvert 12y ago
    This. So many software markets have this problem. The only way out of it is if a clear leader breaks away eventually, or else a new market will disrupt and subsume the capabilities of the old one mired in cost competition.
- ap22213 12y ago
  Makes sense. If I remember my economics correctly, with efficient markets and competition, profits should approach zero over time. But, if there's no competition....
gmarx 12y ago
No it isn't. If people keep throwing around these kind of assertions, these very serious psych diagnoses will lose all specificity and become useless.
- hkmurakami 12y ago
  Isn't there an important distinction between a sociopath and psychopath? (or perhaps you are asserting that the generous use of xxxxx-path cheapens the gravity of the situation for those suffering from mental illnesses)
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    They are both Antisocial Personality Disorders but a sociopath and psychopath are different in their planning ability. A psychopath reacts, a sociopath manipulates.
    - hkmurakami 12y ago
      That's the most succinct explanation I've heard on the subject. Thanks!
  - jahewson 12y ago
    This is a popular misconception, they are interchangeable, being two words for the same concept of different origins. Some authors make minor distinctions, but they are not widely recognised.
  - gmarx 12y ago
    Yes, whether or not you make the distinction, neither applies. I take it people on Hacker News don't dig Ellison. For all I know he is a sociopath. The above is not evidence for that.
- davesque 12y ago
  Whaa?
marincounty 12y ago
Yea, this I don't like this whole "it's legal--I'm just a great Entrepreneur(Winner!). Make your money, but don't step on the little guy. Oh yea, a hand shake means more than a contract in my world. I hope it's not a generational thing? I've been no angel on my life, but I have never taken advantage of someone poor, or naive. I know a few very wealthy Winners. They have all the toys, but very few friends, and even the third wife really doesn't give a chit about them. Oh, once their kids realize how daddy/mommy made all that money--the love turns to co-dependent despise wrapped in a smile. That said, there are financial and personal heros--Wosniak comes to mind?

"It's not enough to win, all others must fail" This isn't the DNA of a winner, this is the DNA of a sociopath.

spindritf 12y ago

Maybe sociopathy is adaptive in the modern world.

dllthomas 12y ago
Only if we let it be.
- spindritf 12y ago
  That's not really true. There's a very serious collective action problem and limits on what humans (can) find genuinely attractive. Which is why I added "in the modern world." In a tight-knit community sociopathic traits are probably much less beneficial than in an atomized, largely anonymous society.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    We address some collective action problems, with varying degrees of success (certainly, some things we fail horribly at are collective action problems). My statement wasn't meant to say, "Oh, it's simple, we just X!" Just that it's not necessarily outside the realm of things we could address. In particular, "adaptive" - when it comes to humans - is only relevant at time scales of many generations. Much changes over those time scales.
fooaway 12y ago
The traits are definitely overrepresented in the executive suite.
IvyMike 12y ago
This was the main message of American Psycho.

turnip1979 12y ago

I was told a variation of the original quote by a chess master at age < 8 (I loved chess as a kid and took some advanced classes). Thankfully, I don't recall ever acting on such advice.

parasubvert 12y ago

If you read Peter Thiel's latest book, his argument is for monopoly over competition. Which is just another way of saying, all competition must fail. So far, it's worked for Facebook. They have trampled their competition, or they just buy them.

hkmurakami 12y ago
I read a piece by a (very reasonable) VC explaining the detriments of excess LP cash in the VC industry. The premise was that if 100 companies get funded in a space (say, local delivery) where normally, 10 companies would have, then even the ones who under normal circumstances would have "out competed" the others through superior service and product will have a tough time vs the torrent of cost cutting and "competition" from the slew of competitors, thereby making the entire industry unprofitable. In a way, it reminds me of the consumer electronics market, especially the laptop PC market. Fierce competition forced down profits, and now seemingly every company is focused on cost cutting rather than making something we actually want to use. Both consumers and producers have lost out (woe is me who cannot buy a quality thinkpad anymore!).
- parasubvert 12y ago
  This. So many software markets have this problem. The only way out of it is if a clear leader breaks away eventually, or else a new market will disrupt and subsume the capabilities of the old one mired in cost competition.
ap22213 12y ago
Makes sense. If I remember my economics correctly, with efficient markets and competition, profits should approach zero over time. But, if there's no competition....

gmarx 12y ago

No it isn't. If people keep throwing around these kind of assertions, these very serious psych diagnoses will lose all specificity and become useless.

hkmurakami 12y ago
Isn't there an important distinction between a sociopath and psychopath? (or perhaps you are asserting that the generous use of xxxxx-path cheapens the gravity of the situation for those suffering from mental illnesses)
- wavefunction 12y ago
  They are both Antisocial Personality Disorders but a sociopath and psychopath are different in their planning ability. A psychopath reacts, a sociopath manipulates.
  - hkmurakami 12y ago
    That's the most succinct explanation I've heard on the subject. Thanks!
- jahewson 12y ago
  This is a popular misconception, they are interchangeable, being two words for the same concept of different origins. Some authors make minor distinctions, but they are not widely recognised.
- gmarx 12y ago
  Yes, whether or not you make the distinction, neither applies. I take it people on Hacker News don't dig Ellison. For all I know he is a sociopath. The above is not evidence for that.
davesque 12y ago
Whaa?

marincounty 12y ago

Yea, this I don't like this whole "it's legal--I'm just a great Entrepreneur(Winner!). Make your money, but don't step on the little guy. Oh yea, a hand shake means more than a contract in my world. I hope it's not a generational thing? I've been no angel on my life, but I have never taken advantage of someone poor, or naive. I know a few very wealthy Winners. They have all the toys, but very few friends, and even the third wife really doesn't give a chit about them. Oh, once their kids realize how daddy/mommy made all that money--the love turns to co-dependent despise wrapped in a smile. That said, there are financial and personal heros--Wosniak comes to mind?