4 ms·

Maybe people should buy cheaper cars if they can't get a reasonable loan? I guess it wasn't clear from the article if these were loans for new or used cars, tho

by lutorm 12y ago

Maybe people should buy cheaper cars if they can't get a reasonable loan? I guess it wasn't clear from the article if these were loans for new or used cars, though.

jimmaswell 12y ago
Yeah, you shouldn't need a loan for a decent used one.
- sk5t 12y ago
  Shouldn't, but might anyway... a lot of folks don't have HN-type dough on hand, and the vehicles in the article were 2005 and 2001 vintage.
  - jimmaswell 12y ago
    You can go a lot farther back than 2005 or 2001. My used ones are from the 80s through 90s and they were only around $600 to $800
- ilaksh 12y ago
  A "decent" used car will cost several thousand dollars. The number of people who can easily part with $5,000 is much smaller than you think it is.
  - danielweber 12y ago
    "Decent" depends entirely on the SES of the speaker. Click and Clack have said for 20 years that if you just need to get from point A to point B you can do that with a $500 car, and once a year or so you will need to get a new-to-you $500 car. With inflation that might be $1000 these days.
    - bunderbunder 12y ago
      That car will be one that could break down at any moment. Most people in the income bracket where this might be an attractive option are unfortunately also working for employers who won't graciously accept "my car broke down" as a reason for showing up late to work.
  - jimmaswell 12y ago
    I think you're wrong about that. The used cars I've gotten for ~$600 to ~$800 have been reliable for many years. They're not bad at all. Maybe this depends on where you live? This is from a more rural area
- bunderbunder 12y ago
  Y'know, it's kind of amazing what's happened to the used car market in the past few years. A few years ago when I was shopping for cars, truly awful vehicles that I would have considered to be prime candidates for cubing were being sold for far more than they were worth. I'm not sure what it is, but my best guess is that the Cash for Clunkers program sucked a lot of supply out of the market.
  - sk5t 12y ago
    I think you've got it half-right: because of Cash for Clunkers, tightened lending standards, etc., used supply is down, while demand is slightly up, and the market is now much firmer than it used to be, with less of a discount compared to buying or leasing new. At least that seems to be the case for cars in the "basic utilitarian transportation" and "entry luxury" categories.
- djeikyb 12y ago
  What do you feel is reasonable to pay for a decent used car? What do you feel is a normal amount of money to have just laying around, ready to be invested in a car? My experience looking for a used car in the greater phoenix area says you can't find anything decent for under $10k. Carmax is said to have higher quality used vehicles, but they rarely have anything under $10k (after gov't fees and taxes). Also, in this price range, the mileage is usually 100k+. Nobody keeps maintenance records, so to avoid blowing up your engine, you'll need to immediately spend $500-900 on a new timing belt. Next, expect your high mileage car to have at least one critical part wear out every other month or so. I searched long and hard and settled on a $6k car. Twelve years old, 150k miles. It was the cheapest car I could find that didn't have any obvious problems (Firestone vetted it; turned out to have $3k+ of problems over the next fifteen months). My income was ~45k. What with all the other bills, I needed a loan. It's uncommon for a programmer, but the gov't census for the area says a combined income of $40-60k is normal. I know my fair share of single mothers who wait tables for a lot less than half of that. I heartily dispute the assertion that it's easy to just pay cash for a working car. One last piece of anecdotal evidence to my argument: the ease of selling my high mileage piece of shit car. I put it on craigslist for $1200 and it sold within hours. I described it as clearly as I could: "as is. doesn't work. died and won't turn back on. lots of recent expensive repairs. must tow.". tl;dr, in my experience, an easy sum to save gets you a car that doesn't run. if you want a car, you need a loan.
  - jimmaswell 12y ago
    My previous two used cars have been ~$600 and ~$800 and they've been running reliably for years. Maybe you just need to know where to look? I do live in a more rural area.
    - djeikyb 12y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised if location matters. My experience is in the greater phoenix area (not being vague, my search radius covered the entire phoenix metro, queen creek to glendale). I searched craigslist, independent used car lots, regular dealerships, ebay, and lots around town where people park cars for private sale.

by lutorm 12y ago

Maybe people should buy cheaper cars if they can't get a reasonable loan? I guess it wasn't clear from the article if these were loans for new or used cars, though.

jimmaswell 12y ago

Yeah, you shouldn't need a loan for a decent used one.

sk5t 12y ago
Shouldn't, but might anyway... a lot of folks don't have HN-type dough on hand, and the vehicles in the article were 2005 and 2001 vintage.
- jimmaswell 12y ago
  You can go a lot farther back than 2005 or 2001. My used ones are from the 80s through 90s and they were only around $600 to $800
ilaksh 12y ago
A "decent" used car will cost several thousand dollars. The number of people who can easily part with $5,000 is much smaller than you think it is.
- danielweber 12y ago
  "Decent" depends entirely on the SES of the speaker. Click and Clack have said for 20 years that if you just need to get from point A to point B you can do that with a $500 car, and once a year or so you will need to get a new-to-you $500 car. With inflation that might be $1000 these days.
  - bunderbunder 12y ago
    That car will be one that could break down at any moment. Most people in the income bracket where this might be an attractive option are unfortunately also working for employers who won't graciously accept "my car broke down" as a reason for showing up late to work.
- jimmaswell 12y ago
  I think you're wrong about that. The used cars I've gotten for ~$600 to ~$800 have been reliable for many years. They're not bad at all. Maybe this depends on where you live? This is from a more rural area
bunderbunder 12y ago
Y'know, it's kind of amazing what's happened to the used car market in the past few years. A few years ago when I was shopping for cars, truly awful vehicles that I would have considered to be prime candidates for cubing were being sold for far more than they were worth. I'm not sure what it is, but my best guess is that the Cash for Clunkers program sucked a lot of supply out of the market.
- sk5t 12y ago
  I think you've got it half-right: because of Cash for Clunkers, tightened lending standards, etc., used supply is down, while demand is slightly up, and the market is now much firmer than it used to be, with less of a discount compared to buying or leasing new. At least that seems to be the case for cars in the "basic utilitarian transportation" and "entry luxury" categories.
djeikyb 12y ago
What do you feel is reasonable to pay for a decent used car? What do you feel is a normal amount of money to have just laying around, ready to be invested in a car? My experience looking for a used car in the greater phoenix area says you can't find anything decent for under $10k. Carmax is said to have higher quality used vehicles, but they rarely have anything under $10k (after gov't fees and taxes). Also, in this price range, the mileage is usually 100k+. Nobody keeps maintenance records, so to avoid blowing up your engine, you'll need to immediately spend $500-900 on a new timing belt. Next, expect your high mileage car to have at least one critical part wear out every other month or so. I searched long and hard and settled on a $6k car. Twelve years old, 150k miles. It was the cheapest car I could find that didn't have any obvious problems (Firestone vetted it; turned out to have $3k+ of problems over the next fifteen months). My income was ~45k. What with all the other bills, I needed a loan. It's uncommon for a programmer, but the gov't census for the area says a combined income of $40-60k is normal. I know my fair share of single mothers who wait tables for a lot less than half of that. I heartily dispute the assertion that it's easy to just pay cash for a working car. One last piece of anecdotal evidence to my argument: the ease of selling my high mileage piece of shit car. I put it on craigslist for $1200 and it sold within hours. I described it as clearly as I could: "as is. doesn't work. died and won't turn back on. lots of recent expensive repairs. must tow.". tl;dr, in my experience, an easy sum to save gets you a car that doesn't run. if you want a car, you need a loan.
- jimmaswell 12y ago
  My previous two used cars have been ~$600 and ~$800 and they've been running reliably for years. Maybe you just need to know where to look? I do live in a more rural area.
  - djeikyb 12y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if location matters. My experience is in the greater phoenix area (not being vague, my search radius covered the entire phoenix metro, queen creek to glendale). I searched craigslist, independent used car lots, regular dealerships, ebay, and lots around town where people park cars for private sale.