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Hating on "marketing people" isn't just an HN thing, I think. I'm fairly sure most people hate marketers, particularly because it's their job to try and part yo

Hating on "marketing people" isn't just an HN thing, I think. I'm fairly sure most people hate marketers, particularly because it's their job to try and part you from your money. In fact, on HN we are probably more lenient because we are some of the people that are interested in separating people from their cash.

DanBC 12y ago
I don't care that people are trying to part me from my money. Often I'm trying to get rid of it. {EDIT: whenever you buy anything you're trying to get rid of that bit of money. This is true for poor people as well.} The hate for (some) marketers comes from the fact that some of them are fucking scum with bizarre feelings of entitlement. "When those other companies do it then yes I guess it is spam but trust us you really want to read our unsolicited email".
- ForHackernews 12y ago
  > I don't care that people are trying to part me from my money. Often I'm trying to get rid of it. You can give it to me. But seriously, what a wonderful "problem" to have.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    You want to buy a tv. You set aside an amount of money to buy that tv. From that point you're trying to get rid of that bit of money in return for a TV.
    - chc 12y ago
      I don't think that's an accurate description. If you got to the store and they told you that, I dunno, you're the millionth customer and your TV is free, I doubt you'd feel like you failed to get rid of the money. Because you weren't trying to get rid of it — you were giving it up as a concession to get something else you want more.
      - Retric 12y ago
        I think that's a good point, but for many people going shopping they are more or less trying to spend money. They have a minimum budget and will just buy more stuff or come back the next day if what they want is on sale or something. Suppose, you got everyone on your list a nice Christmas gift for 20$ total, would you really stop shopping at that point?
        chc 12y ago
        If there weren't anything else I wanted, yeah, I would. I don't know a lot of people who buy things they don't want just to get rid of money. Maybe the obscenely wealthy or very compulsive people, but most people I know only part with their money in exchange for things they want, and otherwise are glad to keep it until they find something they do want. (They may not be fastidious about how much of their money they're parting with compared to how much they want the things, but it doesn't seem like they part with money just to be rid of it.)
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      The focus is on the 'in return' part not the 'get rid of' part. If you got lucky and unexpectedly won a free TV of acceptable quality, you wouldn't feel burdened by having both the TV and the money you had intended to spend on it.
recursion1133 12y ago
Interesting, I never thought of "hating on marketing" as a money defense system.
Brian-Puccio 12y ago
Tons of people can't stand "marketing people", it's why so many people laugh at things like Bill Hicks' monologue on the topic [0] funny. I like shiny new things as much as the next person. But I don't like marketing and I don't like being sold to. If someone's sole job is to convince me I need something and my life is worse off without whatever they're selling, why would I like them? http://www.fluffylinks.com/bill-hicks-on-marketing http://www.fluffylinks.com/bill-hicks-on-marketing
GrinningFool 12y ago
It's more than it being their job to part you from your money. Because that's a salesperson's job too, and yet they don't receive the same animosity. The difference is small but crucial. The salesperson's job is - for the most part - to sell to you personally. And the salesperson typically has a personal stake in it - so this is a transaction between two people. On the other hand, it's the marketer's job to manipulate[1] you[2] into buying an idea and accepting it as your own. Nothing is off-limits - any psychological tactic that a marketer can employ is considered an acceptable means to the end. Astroturfing, deceptive advertising, "submarine" stories -- these are just the tip of the iceburg, and all of them are perfectly OK in the mind of the marketers under discussion. Ultimately, it comes down to ethics - marketers seem to me to be like behavioral psychologists with no ethical guidelines that prevent them (or even discourage them) from playing out their experiments on people. And the experiments are all geared towards finding the most effective ways to exploit the way our minds work, to the benefit of the owner of the product or idea being marketed. [3] I am aware that there are some who do have ethics, and apply them scrupulously. But in the marketing that surrounds us every day, I see no indication that they have any significant voice. For those not familiar with Heinlein, some of the ideas raised in "If This Goes On..." are disturbingly relevant. --- 1. And this is the general "you", not typically one specific individual. 2. The salesperson, too, will naturally try to manipulate you - but a) it's typically an interaction between you and the salesperson. b) you can also use the same or similar tactics on the salesperson. c) foreknowledge of the tactics used by a salesperson are often enough to protect against their effectiveness - not so with marketing.

DanBC 12y ago

I don't care that people are trying to part me from my money. Often I'm trying to get rid of it. {EDIT: whenever you buy anything you're trying to get rid of that bit of money. This is true for poor people as well.} The hate for (some) marketers comes from the fact that some of them are fucking scum with bizarre feelings of entitlement. "When those other companies do it then yes I guess it is spam but trust us you really want to read our unsolicited email".

ForHackernews 12y ago
> I don't care that people are trying to part me from my money. Often I'm trying to get rid of it. You can give it to me. But seriously, what a wonderful "problem" to have.
- DanBC 12y ago
  You want to buy a tv. You set aside an amount of money to buy that tv. From that point you're trying to get rid of that bit of money in return for a TV.
  - chc 12y ago
    I don't think that's an accurate description. If you got to the store and they told you that, I dunno, you're the millionth customer and your TV is free, I doubt you'd feel like you failed to get rid of the money. Because you weren't trying to get rid of it — you were giving it up as a concession to get something else you want more.
    - Retric 12y ago
      I think that's a good point, but for many people going shopping they are more or less trying to spend money. They have a minimum budget and will just buy more stuff or come back the next day if what they want is on sale or something. Suppose, you got everyone on your list a nice Christmas gift for 20$ total, would you really stop shopping at that point?
      - chc 12y ago
        If there weren't anything else I wanted, yeah, I would. I don't know a lot of people who buy things they don't want just to get rid of money. Maybe the obscenely wealthy or very compulsive people, but most people I know only part with their money in exchange for things they want, and otherwise are glad to keep it until they find something they do want. (They may not be fastidious about how much of their money they're parting with compared to how much they want the things, but it doesn't seem like they part with money just to be rid of it.)
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    The focus is on the 'in return' part not the 'get rid of' part. If you got lucky and unexpectedly won a free TV of acceptable quality, you wouldn't feel burdened by having both the TV and the money you had intended to spend on it.

recursion1133 12y ago

Interesting, I never thought of "hating on marketing" as a money defense system.

Brian-Puccio 12y ago

Tons of people can't stand "marketing people", it's why so many people laugh at things like Bill Hicks' monologue on the topic [0] funny. I like shiny new things as much as the next person. But I don't like marketing and I don't like being sold to. If someone's sole job is to convince me I need something and my life is worse off without whatever they're selling, why would I like them? http://www.fluffylinks.com/bill-hicks-on-marketing http://www.fluffylinks.com/bill-hicks-on-marketing

GrinningFool 12y ago

It's more than it being their job to part you from your money. Because that's a salesperson's job too, and yet they don't receive the same animosity. The difference is small but crucial. The salesperson's job is - for the most part - to sell to you personally. And the salesperson typically has a personal stake in it - so this is a transaction between two people. On the other hand, it's the marketer's job to manipulate[1] you[2] into buying an idea and accepting it as your own. Nothing is off-limits - any psychological tactic that a marketer can employ is considered an acceptable means to the end. Astroturfing, deceptive advertising, "submarine" stories -- these are just the tip of the iceburg, and all of them are perfectly OK in the mind of the marketers under discussion. Ultimately, it comes down to ethics - marketers seem to me to be like behavioral psychologists with no ethical guidelines that prevent them (or even discourage them) from playing out their experiments on people. And the experiments are all geared towards finding the most effective ways to exploit the way our minds work, to the benefit of the owner of the product or idea being marketed. [3] I am aware that there are some who do have ethics, and apply them scrupulously. But in the marketing that surrounds us every day, I see no indication that they have any significant voice. For those not familiar with Heinlein, some of the ideas raised in "If This Goes On..." are disturbingly relevant. --- 1. And this is the general "you", not typically one specific individual. 2. The salesperson, too, will naturally try to manipulate you - but a) it's typically an interaction between you and the salesperson. b) you can also use the same or similar tactics on the salesperson. c) foreknowledge of the tactics used by a salesperson are often enough to protect against their effectiveness - not so with marketing.