6 ms·

I think this is the right choice if only because Gnome is the only choice that handles HiDPI well.

by Touche 12y ago

adamors 12y ago
Doesn't KDE?
- jeorgun 12y ago
  Not really. It sort of side-steps the issue by having extremely configurable icon, font, window, etc. sizes, but it has no real, OSX-style high-DPI support like GNOME does.
  - _ZeD_ 12y ago
    You mean ... it has a better HiDPI support than that OSX-style configuration GNOME does.
    - jeorgun 12y ago
      More configurable, but certainly not better. It's a major pain to set up, since everything (fonts, titlebars, desktop panels, icons in various contexts, scrollbars, cursors, GTK equivalents to the above) has to be set independently, and many things still aren't capable of automatically scaling at all, like checkboxes, anything using KWebView (like konqueror or khelpcenter) or Aurora themes. Some parts of (say) Amarok's interfaces completely glitch out when scaled past a certain point. For this particular subject, my money's definitely on the "just works" solution.
    - marcosdumay 12y ago
      Nah... It just sidesteps the issue by solving the actual problem.
  - Crito 12y ago
    That sounds plainly better. Being pixel agnostic by allowing everything to scale as the user pleases will allow a broader range of users to configure their system as they prefer it. (Last I checked, OSX on retina devices couldn't even use the actual resolution of the screen without third party extensions... A problem I don't have in Linux with a high-dpi screen).
toll 12y ago
Cinnamon seems to handle HiDPI well.
- fmoralesc 12y ago
  It uses the same technologies GNOME does.
  - adestefan 12y ago
    Because it is GNOME with just a replaced shell.
worklogin 12y ago
http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/03/hi-dpi-support-for-cinnamon/ http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/03/hi-dpi-support-for-cin... This is from March.
- wlesieutre 12y ago
  Is it really only integer scaling? Bit of a bummer if so. I'd have hoped they'd design arbitrary scales into this or it'll be stuck behind Windows and OS X for potentially a long time (until someone fixes it and all of the 3rd party software is updated to work right at other scales). I run my Windows computer at 1.5 scale, which gives me sharp but readable text and a whole ton of screen real estate. Who wants to buy an expensive 28" 4K screen and either choose between huge interface with 1080p effective resolution or an unusably tiny interface at native 4K?
  - JoshTriplett 12y ago
    Scaling of arbitrary widgets is integer scale, but you can scale fonts by arbitrary factors.
    - wlesieutre 12y ago
      Is "arbitrary widgets" everything that isn't text, including the overall layout of a window? That sounds a lot like Windows' "Change only the text size" option, which has been around for a long time and isn't a good substitute for UI scale. Size of all of the mouse targets is as big a deal as the text; they need a middle ground between "impossible to hit" and "gigantic waste of space". I'd just been getting in to Linux (via the LF course on edX) and have it dual booting on my old laptop, but all of my newer computers have higher res screens that fit best at fractional upscaling from the "standard" size of old UIs. Guess I'll keep working on it because I'm enjoying the CLI and playing around with a web server, but I'm now a lot less excited about the prospects of Linux as a Windows / OS X replacement. Year of the Linux desktop...
      - JoshTriplett 12y ago
philsnow 12y ago
hidpi support doesn't matter so much if you don't have any window chrome or widgets to speak of. minimalism has always served me well in window manager choice. I hope with systemd it doesn't / didn't become harder to use a "brand X" window manager.
- gtaylor 12y ago
  > hidpi support doesn't matter so much if you don't have any window chrome or widgets to speak of. But if you do, it stinks. Gnome isn't my favorite DE, but it's probably a safer default for a very general-purpose distro. You can always switch to XFCE if you care.
- comex 12y ago
  Since "desktop environment" includes some core applications each comes with, it's not just about the window manager's chrome.
- fmoralesc 12y ago
  What does systemd have to do with wms? (desktop managers, yes, but wms, no) There will be more issues with the move towards wayland. Just yesterday I read openbox development had stalled, so it is doubtful it will survive unless someone takes over. OTOH, there are not many tiling window managers with wayland support yet.
  - philsnow 12y ago
    I recall having to run gnome-settings-daemon even if I wasnt running the rest of gnome to fix some absurd issue or other. I can see systemd easily "leaking" dependencies up the stack, making my life as a "fringe"/non-gnome user harder. The people working on it don't seem to have any aversion at all to scope creep. In fact, the politics of it all make it seem like a "land grab" and they'd in fact be happy if systemd takes over more and more responsibilities.
    - fmoralesc 12y ago
      > I recall having to run gnome-settings-daemon even if I wasnt running the rest of gnome to fix some absurd issue or other. Sure, that is the typical cost of using a patched up desktop environment instead of a full DE. A wm is just a wm.

I think this is the right choice if only because Gnome is the only choice that handles HiDPI well.

by Touche 12y ago

I think this is the right choice if only because Gnome is the only choice that handles HiDPI well.

adamors 12y ago

Doesn't KDE?

jeorgun 12y ago
Not really. It sort of side-steps the issue by having extremely configurable icon, font, window, etc. sizes, but it has no real, OSX-style high-DPI support like GNOME does.
- _ZeD_ 12y ago
  You mean ... it has a better HiDPI support than that OSX-style configuration GNOME does.
  - jeorgun 12y ago
    More configurable, but certainly not better. It's a major pain to set up, since everything (fonts, titlebars, desktop panels, icons in various contexts, scrollbars, cursors, GTK equivalents to the above) has to be set independently, and many things still aren't capable of automatically scaling at all, like checkboxes, anything using KWebView (like konqueror or khelpcenter) or Aurora themes. Some parts of (say) Amarok's interfaces completely glitch out when scaled past a certain point. For this particular subject, my money's definitely on the "just works" solution.
  - marcosdumay 12y ago
    Nah... It just sidesteps the issue by solving the actual problem.
- Crito 12y ago
  That sounds plainly better. Being pixel agnostic by allowing everything to scale as the user pleases will allow a broader range of users to configure their system as they prefer it. (Last I checked, OSX on retina devices couldn't even use the actual resolution of the screen without third party extensions... A problem I don't have in Linux with a high-dpi screen).

toll 12y ago

Cinnamon seems to handle HiDPI well.

fmoralesc 12y ago
It uses the same technologies GNOME does.
- adestefan 12y ago
  Because it is GNOME with just a replaced shell.

worklogin 12y ago

http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/03/hi-dpi-support-for-cinnamon/ http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/03/hi-dpi-support-for-cin... This is from March.

wlesieutre 12y ago
Is it really only integer scaling? Bit of a bummer if so. I'd have hoped they'd design arbitrary scales into this or it'll be stuck behind Windows and OS X for potentially a long time (until someone fixes it and all of the 3rd party software is updated to work right at other scales). I run my Windows computer at 1.5 scale, which gives me sharp but readable text and a whole ton of screen real estate. Who wants to buy an expensive 28" 4K screen and either choose between huge interface with 1080p effective resolution or an unusably tiny interface at native 4K?
- JoshTriplett 12y ago
  Scaling of arbitrary widgets is integer scale, but you can scale fonts by arbitrary factors.
  - wlesieutre 12y ago
    Is "arbitrary widgets" everything that isn't text, including the overall layout of a window? That sounds a lot like Windows' "Change only the text size" option, which has been around for a long time and isn't a good substitute for UI scale. Size of all of the mouse targets is as big a deal as the text; they need a middle ground between "impossible to hit" and "gigantic waste of space". I'd just been getting in to Linux (via the LF course on edX) and have it dual booting on my old laptop, but all of my newer computers have higher res screens that fit best at fractional upscaling from the "standard" size of old UIs. Guess I'll keep working on it because I'm enjoying the CLI and playing around with a web server, but I'm now a lot less excited about the prospects of Linux as a Windows / OS X replacement. Year of the Linux desktop...
    - JoshTriplett 12y ago

philsnow 12y ago

hidpi support doesn't matter so much if you don't have any window chrome or widgets to speak of. minimalism has always served me well in window manager choice. I hope with systemd it doesn't / didn't become harder to use a "brand X" window manager.

gtaylor 12y ago
> hidpi support doesn't matter so much if you don't have any window chrome or widgets to speak of. But if you do, it stinks. Gnome isn't my favorite DE, but it's probably a safer default for a very general-purpose distro. You can always switch to XFCE if you care.
comex 12y ago
Since "desktop environment" includes some core applications each comes with, it's not just about the window manager's chrome.
fmoralesc 12y ago
What does systemd have to do with wms? (desktop managers, yes, but wms, no) There will be more issues with the move towards wayland. Just yesterday I read openbox development had stalled, so it is doubtful it will survive unless someone takes over. OTOH, there are not many tiling window managers with wayland support yet.
- philsnow 12y ago
  I recall having to run gnome-settings-daemon even if I wasnt running the rest of gnome to fix some absurd issue or other. I can see systemd easily "leaking" dependencies up the stack, making my life as a "fringe"/non-gnome user harder. The people working on it don't seem to have any aversion at all to scope creep. In fact, the politics of it all make it seem like a "land grab" and they'd in fact be happy if systemd takes over more and more responsibilities.
  - fmoralesc 12y ago
    > I recall having to run gnome-settings-daemon even if I wasnt running the rest of gnome to fix some absurd issue or other. Sure, that is the typical cost of using a patched up desktop environment instead of a full DE. A wm is just a wm.