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That's an awful lot of hype that sounds like it was written by (or for) someone who has never used Skype, or Hangouts, or <insert messaging app of choice here>,

That's an awful lot of hype that sounds like it was written by (or for) someone who has never used Skype, or Hangouts, or <insert messaging app of choice here>, all of which do store-and-forward messaging for individuals and groups, and let you call people with a touch of button. Hangouts also shows me if someone's on mobile or desktop, and whether they're "present" or not, and while it doesn't tell me exactly where they are, that's arguably more a feature than a bug. Same goes for apparently recording everything forever (cue image of legal departments around the world reaching for the NOPE button). What am I missing?

wmf 12y ago
Do any of them do store-and-forward voice messaging? I don't think Hangouts does.
- jbrandon52 12y ago
  Do you mean like voice mail and iOS / whatsapp / Facebook voice messaging?
- jpatokal 12y ago
  If you call somebody on the plain old telephone network and they're not around, you'll likely get voice mail. It wouldn't be hard for Talko to offer a better interface for this, but I have a hard time seeing killer app potential in this.
  - thefreeman 12y ago
    I absolutely abhor listening to voice mails and I know I am not the only one. That is a really bad example to use.
    - jpatokal 12y ago
      Why is it a bad example? I hate voice mail as well, but it is "store-and-forward voice messaging".
      - e12e 12y ago
        Agreed. I hate voice mail -- and while the clunky old interface (dial-tone buttons or what-not) doesn't help -- the thing I don't like is the concept of store-and-forward voice messaging in general. Now that I think about it -- I did one type of store-and-forward voice+ messaging that I did enjoy somewhat. When a friend of mine went to Japan as an exchange student two? years ahead of me in ... 1995? We exchanged cassette tapes via snail-mail. Each usually was kind of a mix-tape of voice diary/message and some music or other stuff and was accompanied by a letter, maybe with news clippings, pictures etc (I think, it's been a while). It's really the only exchange of voice messages I can remember enjoying. Perhaps the clue is in the fact that the media has to be part of, or inform the message. Modern (phone) voicemail is usually not (in my experience) actually made as store and forward, but more of a fall-back because synchronous communication wasn't possible. Generally if someone wants to forward me an asynchronous message -- I much prefer text. Either sms or email (or a letter) -- to voicemail. That said, if someone mailed me a cd (or audiofile on a thumbdrive) I'd probably listen to it, and have a rather different experience. Not sure if someone emailed me an audio-file. I'm a bit of a die-hard plain-text email person. I'll stretch to image-attachments, though. But I still feel we got oversold on the idea of multimedia, and it remains a bit of a "fad". I do realize I might be an outlier, though :-) So maybe an app like this can help inform the media choice, and by virtue of that make store-and-forward voice messaging not-suck. As long as people use them as "voice logs" (like videologs) or something, and not as a means to transmit information. Which is just awful, IMNHO. And I'll probably still prefer my plain-text -- but thinking about it, I could see it being a useful form of communication after all. Apologies for rambling, but I think there might be traces of an interesting thought in there.
    - pavel_lishin 12y ago
      This sounds even worse. You won't be listening to a voicemail, which most people understand ought to be brief, you'll be listening to a recap of either someone's attempted conversation with you, or two people conversing. Unless it works differently, somehow.
- XorNot 12y ago
  WhatsApp does this easily - the voice button is right on the main interface.
georgemcbay 12y ago
"and while it doesn't tell me exactly where they are" You can (voluntarily) share this with the click of a button, at least on Android (paperclip->Location), which I think is the best solution. But anyway, I agree. Sounds a lot like maybe a new feature or two to Hangouts (the long term rescind feature sounds nice, and Hangouts doesn't have an easy way to record an audio clip from within the app and attach it the way you would an photo, but I'm not convinced that is as important as Ray Ozzie thinks it is, and even if it is it would be trivial to implement on top of what already exists), not some grand new product market, especially when it doesn't even include video support yet while Hangouts does. If you buy into his theory of there being something "lost" with text, surely a lot is also lost when you lose body language with just voice.
downandout 12y ago
>What am I missing? You're not missing anything, but that doesn't mean this won't be successful. There were tons of ride ordering/sharing apps before Uber; Uber just had the right interface at the right moment. AIM long predated Whatsapp and Skype. These are just a few examples of not-so-original products that became hugely successful because of some very slight twists on relatively old concepts. Not being original in concept is far from a disqualifier for success. In all but a tiny fraction of cases, "first mover advantage" is a myth. If your goal is rapid, widespread adoption of your product, it's generally better to iterate on something that has proven acceptance by the market.
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Sure, but Talko isn't the second mover in messaging apps, it's more like the millionth. This is a pretty mature market by now, and I'm still not seeing any obvious hook that would get me to switch.
  - downandout 12y ago
    There are a few innovations in Talko itself (telling people if you're driving etc.). That may be enough, and it may not. It takes a fair amount of pixie dust for these things to work out, so no one knows. But it does have a chance. In a world where "Yo" gets more than 1 user (and a $10M valuation), I don't discount any app until it's removed from the app store.
    - jonknee 12y ago
      I would never use an app that has the "feature" of broadcasting my current location and movement to friends and colleagues.
      - x1798DE 12y ago
        I feel the same way, but I get the impression that "kids these days" love that kind of thing, so the fact that you or I wouldn't use this isn't necessarily a bar to success.
themodelplumber 12y ago
I think you are missing the mini-slideshare aspect to voice and text/image sharing. Just looking at the app website, users can work as a team and use voice for annotation, which is pretty huge vs. text/images only. Plus, any voice elements seem to be treated as part of a larger conversation element that can be resumed or edited at will. Do Skype or Hangouts have these features? I know I can leave people messages like using an answering service, but that's not even close to the same thing.
qq66 12y ago
Things are more than what they do; they're how they do them. A Kia Soul and a Mercedes-Benz S500 basically have the same feature set. But they're very different experiences.
- nyae 12y ago
  I agree. I remember when the iPad came out, people said they weren't anything special, just a big iPod touch. But that seemingly insignificant tweak in size changed everything about use patterns. The difference is like that between a bathtub and a swimming pool.
cubix 12y ago
> apparently recording everything forever I think you are missing the part where he says that any participant can rescind at any time.
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Which will lead to a lot of drama. Imagine - you break up with your partner, and he/she deletes the other side of the conversation. This may not be a problem in work settings, but it has the potential to cause a lot of pain in personal conversations.
revorad 12y ago
Agreed there's a lot of hype, but Skype and hangouts are awful on mobile, so anything better would be nice.
baby 12y ago
Skype is not a well crafted product: - if you send a message to someone offline, and you log off, he will receive it only when both of you will be online and if you use the same device you used when you sent the message. If it was too long ago he might miss it. - if you use multiple devices with skype, you will have to read all everytime you change device so even if you've heard of skype, I can get why there's so much hype for a well-crafted product like whatsapp, but for calls.
prawks 12y ago
While all of those things are (apparently) possible in Skype and friends, they haven't been the focus, or what the product is all about. I use Skype on a weekly basis perhaps (not an expert, but a regular-Joe user), and replicating the kind of experience presented in the article seems like it would be a huge hassle, if not impossible based on my knowledge of Skype. That matters a hell of a lot more than whether or not it's possible, especially when it comes to adoption of an application for certain use cases. Skype and Hangouts are synonymous with video calling/conferencing, and that's it. They may have more features tucked away somewhere, but it's not what they are.
- hrktb 12y ago
  > Skype and Hangouts are synonymous with video calling/conferencing, and that's it. They may have more features tucked away somewhere, but it's not what they are. I had the same idea of Hangouts until switching to android. On android Hangouts easily becomes the SMS app and instant messenging app as well. After a few days, I would go to Hangout and then think about how (voice ? IM ? SMS ? video call?) I'd like to contact the person. A bit in the same way Talko wants to be a hub for the different channels.

wmf 12y ago

Do any of them do store-and-forward voice messaging? I don't think Hangouts does.

jbrandon52 12y ago
Do you mean like voice mail and iOS / whatsapp / Facebook voice messaging?
jpatokal 12y ago
If you call somebody on the plain old telephone network and they're not around, you'll likely get voice mail. It wouldn't be hard for Talko to offer a better interface for this, but I have a hard time seeing killer app potential in this.
- thefreeman 12y ago
  I absolutely abhor listening to voice mails and I know I am not the only one. That is a really bad example to use.
  - jpatokal 12y ago
    Why is it a bad example? I hate voice mail as well, but it is "store-and-forward voice messaging".
    - e12e 12y ago
      Agreed. I hate voice mail -- and while the clunky old interface (dial-tone buttons or what-not) doesn't help -- the thing I don't like is the concept of store-and-forward voice messaging in general. Now that I think about it -- I did one type of store-and-forward voice+ messaging that I did enjoy somewhat. When a friend of mine went to Japan as an exchange student two? years ahead of me in ... 1995? We exchanged cassette tapes via snail-mail. Each usually was kind of a mix-tape of voice diary/message and some music or other stuff and was accompanied by a letter, maybe with news clippings, pictures etc (I think, it's been a while). It's really the only exchange of voice messages I can remember enjoying. Perhaps the clue is in the fact that the media has to be part of, or inform the message. Modern (phone) voicemail is usually not (in my experience) actually made as store and forward, but more of a fall-back because synchronous communication wasn't possible. Generally if someone wants to forward me an asynchronous message -- I much prefer text. Either sms or email (or a letter) -- to voicemail. That said, if someone mailed me a cd (or audiofile on a thumbdrive) I'd probably listen to it, and have a rather different experience. Not sure if someone emailed me an audio-file. I'm a bit of a die-hard plain-text email person. I'll stretch to image-attachments, though. But I still feel we got oversold on the idea of multimedia, and it remains a bit of a "fad". I do realize I might be an outlier, though :-) So maybe an app like this can help inform the media choice, and by virtue of that make store-and-forward voice messaging not-suck. As long as people use them as "voice logs" (like videologs) or something, and not as a means to transmit information. Which is just awful, IMNHO. And I'll probably still prefer my plain-text -- but thinking about it, I could see it being a useful form of communication after all. Apologies for rambling, but I think there might be traces of an interesting thought in there.
  - pavel_lishin 12y ago
    This sounds even worse. You won't be listening to a voicemail, which most people understand ought to be brief, you'll be listening to a recap of either someone's attempted conversation with you, or two people conversing. Unless it works differently, somehow.
XorNot 12y ago
WhatsApp does this easily - the voice button is right on the main interface.

georgemcbay 12y ago

"and while it doesn't tell me exactly where they are" You can (voluntarily) share this with the click of a button, at least on Android (paperclip->Location), which I think is the best solution. But anyway, I agree. Sounds a lot like maybe a new feature or two to Hangouts (the long term rescind feature sounds nice, and Hangouts doesn't have an easy way to record an audio clip from within the app and attach it the way you would an photo, but I'm not convinced that is as important as Ray Ozzie thinks it is, and even if it is it would be trivial to implement on top of what already exists), not some grand new product market, especially when it doesn't even include video support yet while Hangouts does. If you buy into his theory of there being something "lost" with text, surely a lot is also lost when you lose body language with just voice.

downandout 12y ago

>What am I missing? You're not missing anything, but that doesn't mean this won't be successful. There were tons of ride ordering/sharing apps before Uber; Uber just had the right interface at the right moment. AIM long predated Whatsapp and Skype. These are just a few examples of not-so-original products that became hugely successful because of some very slight twists on relatively old concepts. Not being original in concept is far from a disqualifier for success. In all but a tiny fraction of cases, "first mover advantage" is a myth. If your goal is rapid, widespread adoption of your product, it's generally better to iterate on something that has proven acceptance by the market.

jpatokal 12y ago
Sure, but Talko isn't the second mover in messaging apps, it's more like the millionth. This is a pretty mature market by now, and I'm still not seeing any obvious hook that would get me to switch.
- downandout 12y ago
  There are a few innovations in Talko itself (telling people if you're driving etc.). That may be enough, and it may not. It takes a fair amount of pixie dust for these things to work out, so no one knows. But it does have a chance. In a world where "Yo" gets more than 1 user (and a $10M valuation), I don't discount any app until it's removed from the app store.
  - jonknee 12y ago
    I would never use an app that has the "feature" of broadcasting my current location and movement to friends and colleagues.
    - x1798DE 12y ago
      I feel the same way, but I get the impression that "kids these days" love that kind of thing, so the fact that you or I wouldn't use this isn't necessarily a bar to success.

themodelplumber 12y ago

I think you are missing the mini-slideshare aspect to voice and text/image sharing. Just looking at the app website, users can work as a team and use voice for annotation, which is pretty huge vs. text/images only. Plus, any voice elements seem to be treated as part of a larger conversation element that can be resumed or edited at will. Do Skype or Hangouts have these features? I know I can leave people messages like using an answering service, but that's not even close to the same thing.

qq66 12y ago

Things are more than what they do; they're how they do them. A Kia Soul and a Mercedes-Benz S500 basically have the same feature set. But they're very different experiences.

nyae 12y ago
I agree. I remember when the iPad came out, people said they weren't anything special, just a big iPod touch. But that seemingly insignificant tweak in size changed everything about use patterns. The difference is like that between a bathtub and a swimming pool.

cubix 12y ago

> apparently recording everything forever I think you are missing the part where he says that any participant can rescind at any time.

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Which will lead to a lot of drama. Imagine - you break up with your partner, and he/she deletes the other side of the conversation. This may not be a problem in work settings, but it has the potential to cause a lot of pain in personal conversations.

revorad 12y ago

Agreed there's a lot of hype, but Skype and hangouts are awful on mobile, so anything better would be nice.

baby 12y ago

Skype is not a well crafted product: - if you send a message to someone offline, and you log off, he will receive it only when both of you will be online and if you use the same device you used when you sent the message. If it was too long ago he might miss it. - if you use multiple devices with skype, you will have to read all everytime you change device so even if you've heard of skype, I can get why there's so much hype for a well-crafted product like whatsapp, but for calls.

prawks 12y ago

While all of those things are (apparently) possible in Skype and friends, they haven't been the focus, or what the product is all about. I use Skype on a weekly basis perhaps (not an expert, but a regular-Joe user), and replicating the kind of experience presented in the article seems like it would be a huge hassle, if not impossible based on my knowledge of Skype. That matters a hell of a lot more than whether or not it's possible, especially when it comes to adoption of an application for certain use cases. Skype and Hangouts are synonymous with video calling/conferencing, and that's it. They may have more features tucked away somewhere, but it's not what they are.

hrktb 12y ago
> Skype and Hangouts are synonymous with video calling/conferencing, and that's it. They may have more features tucked away somewhere, but it's not what they are. I had the same idea of Hangouts until switching to android. On android Hangouts easily becomes the SMS app and instant messenging app as well. After a few days, I would go to Hangout and then think about how (voice ? IM ? SMS ? video call?) I'd like to contact the person. A bit in the same way Talko wants to be a hub for the different channels.