5 ms·

Why we believe apple

62 points by msh 12y ago

chasing 12y ago
Because I'm not sure what the alternative would be and because Apple products provide me with enough of a valuable service that, unfortunately, I must be somewhat lenient when judging their security?
- dbpatterson 12y ago
  That's not believing Apple though. That's just accepting that there isn't a better alternative...
  - chasing 12y ago
    I believe there's no better alternative for my needs.
- x0x0 12y ago
  But here's the thing. Suppose apple where lying. Assuming you're not being pursued by a nation-state, then whomever is pursing you is probably not willing to burn the knowledge apple is lying just for a glimpse on your phone. It provides you with almost as much security. (Of course, assuming that the lying pigs involved in parallel construction get put away for perjury. What on earth does it take to get a judge pissed off? Otherwise, all bets are off.)
yuhong 12y ago
What is funny is a lot more of Android, though not everything, is open source.
- gress 12y ago
  The main user-facing applications and services in Android are closed source, and send your data to Google, who has made no assurance at all about what they will do with it.
  - guyzero 12y ago
    Google's privacy policy make a fair number of assurances about what they do with data.
    - jonathankoren 12y ago
      Privacy policies don't mean jack shit. They're one-sided and can be changed unilaterally at any time. If you're putting your faith in a corporate policy, you're incredibly naïve.
    - manicdee 12y ago
      Google's privacy policy makes a fair number of assurances about what Google does with the data that Google collects. > We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary [for law enforcement purposes] http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ Google provides no assurances about what others — who gain access to your data or Google's data about you — do with that data.
mstolpm 12y ago
Because 'believe' implies that there is no guarantee whatsoever? It's debatable if there is any unbiased foundation that reasonably helps to decide someone to 'trust' Apple or not. But the reason lots of people believe in Apples statements is the same they believe in their bank, lawyer or doctor: they believe in the integrity of the organization as long as they have no reason to distrust them. Of course believe can be proven wrong over time.
ninkendo 12y ago
I believe Apple cares a lot less about what's on my device, and what I do with it, than Google does. (If we're just comparing the two companies.) In reality you can't truly trust anybody without being able to audit every single thing in every step of the toolchain going from hardware design, software design, assembly, shipping the phone to my house, the service providers, the whole shebang. At some point you have to just accept that the chain is too long to really know what you're getting. A DIY phone with 100% open source software would go a long way towards solving the issue (because you become a large part of the chain) but it's not really tenable right now, and probably won't be for a very long time. I don't necessarily trust anyone, but I'm more comfortable with Apple than companies that make money off my information. Apple simply has less reasons to intentionally fuck me over.

62 points by msh 12y ago

Because I'm not sure what the alternative would be and because Apple products provide me with enough of a valuable service that, unfortunately, I must be somewhat lenient when judging their security?

dbpatterson 12y ago
That's not believing Apple though. That's just accepting that there isn't a better alternative...
- chasing 12y ago
  I believe there's no better alternative for my needs.
x0x0 12y ago
But here's the thing. Suppose apple where lying. Assuming you're not being pursued by a nation-state, then whomever is pursing you is probably not willing to burn the knowledge apple is lying just for a glimpse on your phone. It provides you with almost as much security. (Of course, assuming that the lying pigs involved in parallel construction get put away for perjury. What on earth does it take to get a judge pissed off? Otherwise, all bets are off.)

yuhong 12y ago

What is funny is a lot more of Android, though not everything, is open source.

gress 12y ago
The main user-facing applications and services in Android are closed source, and send your data to Google, who has made no assurance at all about what they will do with it.
- guyzero 12y ago
  Google's privacy policy make a fair number of assurances about what they do with data.
  - jonathankoren 12y ago
    Privacy policies don't mean jack shit. They're one-sided and can be changed unilaterally at any time. If you're putting your faith in a corporate policy, you're incredibly naïve.
  - manicdee 12y ago
    Google's privacy policy makes a fair number of assurances about what Google does with the data that Google collects. > We will share personal information with companies, organizations or individuals outside of Google if we have a good-faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of the information is reasonably necessary [for law enforcement purposes] http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/ Google provides no assurances about what others — who gain access to your data or Google's data about you — do with that data.

mstolpm 12y ago

Because 'believe' implies that there is no guarantee whatsoever? It's debatable if there is any unbiased foundation that reasonably helps to decide someone to 'trust' Apple or not. But the reason lots of people believe in Apples statements is the same they believe in their bank, lawyer or doctor: they believe in the integrity of the organization as long as they have no reason to distrust them. Of course believe can be proven wrong over time.

ninkendo 12y ago

I believe Apple cares a lot less about what's on my device, and what I do with it, than Google does. (If we're just comparing the two companies.) In reality you can't truly trust anybody without being able to audit every single thing in every step of the toolchain going from hardware design, software design, assembly, shipping the phone to my house, the service providers, the whole shebang. At some point you have to just accept that the chain is too long to really know what you're getting. A DIY phone with 100% open source software would go a long way towards solving the issue (because you become a large part of the chain) but it's not really tenable right now, and probably won't be for a very long time. I don't necessarily trust anyone, but I'm more comfortable with Apple than companies that make money off my information. Apple simply has less reasons to intentionally fuck me over.