4 ms·

Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes. I think it's obvious that our justice and penal systems have evolved to incarcerate the "unwanted," mainly pe

by joesmo 12y ago

Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes. I think it's obvious that our justice and penal systems have evolved to incarcerate the "unwanted," mainly people of color. They are both racist institutions that, especially in the last 60-70 years have been trying to "make up" for the advancements in the civil rights of minorities. As far as what reforms are possible, how about releasing everyone who has committed victimless crimes (drugs, prostitution, etc.)? The "justice" system in this country has lost all credibility because such crimes are mainly used to target minorities and the poor. Treating inmates humanely would also help. Removing the profit incentives of prisons would go a long way towards this as well. Not sending people to jail because they can't pay $100 fine would also be a huge step. There are many things society can do to keep a lot of the "low-level" offenders from ever getting into prison and becoming hardened criminals. For most people, once they're in prison, it's too late.

rayiner 12y ago
I use homicide because good records have been kept of such crimes over a long period of time. More recently, homicides have tracked the overall violent crime rate pretty well: http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vcrime500.jpg http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vcrime500.j...
tptacek 12y ago
No, it's not. Murder is ~12% of all state incarcerations (state prisons being where the majority of all US inmates are housed). For context, all drug offenses put together make up just 17% of 2011 state incarcerations. If you include manslaughter, which you should, because (a) it's a form of homicide and (b) many murder prosecutions plead down to it, you get to just about 14%. Homicide is a significant component of all US crime. There's no way to look at the numbers and characterize them as "very small". If you released everyone currently imprisoned for drug crimes, you'd set free about 250,000 people, which is great, but you'd be leaving 1.1 million people incarcerated. Drugs aren't the big problem. Something else is. (Prostitution, a "public order" offense, is a rounding error --- women represent 5% of all public order offenses, meaning that the category captures not just prostitution but is a whole myriad of offenses mostly committed by men. Very few women are actually imprisoned for prostitution; Texas is newsworthy for having around 300 of them, against a 5-figure female prison population).
- alexbecker 12y ago
  Huh? The above comment stated that murder is a very small percentage of crimes, not that murderers are a very small percentage of incarcerated inmates. The comparatively high percentage of people in jail for murder is because murder is 1) more thoroughly investigated and 2) more harshly punished. In 2010, roughly 1% of violent crimes were murders. [1] Combine this with nonviolent crimes, I'd say that's plausibly a "very small percent". Not that I'm trying to say murder is not a problem. Killing people is bad, 'mkay. 1. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/c...
  - tptacek 12y ago
    The comment you're referring to was making a claim about incarceration.
    - alexbecker 12y ago
      It made several claims about incarcerations, but the only claim about homicide I saw was "Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes."
      - tptacek 12y ago
        I don't even know how the point about murder as a percentage of all crime even makes sense in this thread. What, do you imagine, is the point he was trying to make?
        pessimizer 12y ago
        That a vastly larger number of people have been incarcerated for victimless crimes than for murder. Your objections would make sense if the sentences for murder and your median victimless crime were roughly equal. An incarceration for a victimless adult crime, or for a 'status offense' as a juvenile, is an excellent start to eventually turn a harmless person into a murderer. By reducing the number of crippling interventions into the lives of people who haven't committed significant harm, you likely reduce the population of murderers in prison 20 years from now.

by joesmo 12y ago

rayiner 12y ago

I use homicide because good records have been kept of such crimes over a long period of time. More recently, homicides have tracked the overall violent crime rate pretty well: http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vcrime500.jpg http://www.volokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vcrime500.j...

tptacek 12y ago

No, it's not. Murder is ~12% of all state incarcerations (state prisons being where the majority of all US inmates are housed). For context, all drug offenses put together make up just 17% of 2011 state incarcerations. If you include manslaughter, which you should, because (a) it's a form of homicide and (b) many murder prosecutions plead down to it, you get to just about 14%. Homicide is a significant component of all US crime. There's no way to look at the numbers and characterize them as "very small". If you released everyone currently imprisoned for drug crimes, you'd set free about 250,000 people, which is great, but you'd be leaving 1.1 million people incarcerated. Drugs aren't the big problem. Something else is. (Prostitution, a "public order" offense, is a rounding error --- women represent 5% of all public order offenses, meaning that the category captures not just prostitution but is a whole myriad of offenses mostly committed by men. Very few women are actually imprisoned for prostitution; Texas is newsworthy for having around 300 of them, against a 5-figure female prison population).

alexbecker 12y ago
Huh? The above comment stated that murder is a very small percentage of crimes, not that murderers are a very small percentage of incarcerated inmates. The comparatively high percentage of people in jail for murder is because murder is 1) more thoroughly investigated and 2) more harshly punished. In 2010, roughly 1% of violent crimes were murders. [1] Combine this with nonviolent crimes, I'd say that's plausibly a "very small percent". Not that I'm trying to say murder is not a problem. Killing people is bad, 'mkay. 1. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/c...
- tptacek 12y ago
  The comment you're referring to was making a claim about incarceration.
  - alexbecker 12y ago
    It made several claims about incarcerations, but the only claim about homicide I saw was "Homicide is a very small percentage of all crimes."
    - tptacek 12y ago
      I don't even know how the point about murder as a percentage of all crime even makes sense in this thread. What, do you imagine, is the point he was trying to make?
      - pessimizer 12y ago
        That a vastly larger number of people have been incarcerated for victimless crimes than for murder. Your objections would make sense if the sentences for murder and your median victimless crime were roughly equal. An incarceration for a victimless adult crime, or for a 'status offense' as a juvenile, is an excellent start to eventually turn a harmless person into a murderer. By reducing the number of crippling interventions into the lives of people who haven't committed significant harm, you likely reduce the population of murderers in prison 20 years from now.