5 ms·

An alternative point of view is that it's seriously unlikely to do you any harm and might even do you some good - not to mention that if you are the kind of per

An alternative point of view is that it's seriously unlikely to do you any harm and might even do you some good - not to mention that if you are the kind of person who takes vits, it's likely that changing your behaviour off the back of some article will cause some level of psychological stress ("I've got what? I knew I shouldn't have listened to that woman!"). So ignore, and move on.

mitchty 12y ago
Thats like saying that doing rain dances can't hurt and might bring rain. If you can't link the two its really not worth doing. Sure vitamins might not do harm (this is questionable), but that doesn't mean they are doing anything productive. Also its just wasteful money wise. Why spend N dollars a year on something that has about as much evidence to back it up as a placebo pill?
- Retric 12y ago
  As the article says large random controlled studies demonstrate taking vitamins lower your risk of death. In what way is that like a rain dance? PS: Well assuming your an elderly woman taking vitamin D.
- lincolnq 12y ago
  I guess it depends on your credibility thresholds. I take vitamin D because some studies say it's good for you, none say it's bad, and some people on the internet report subjective cognitive & mood enhancement. It costs me around $5/year. Sure, it might be doing nothing. But even a subtle cognitive or mood enhancement would easily be worth two orders of magnitude more than that, so I only have to think there's a 1% chance of a tiny effect before it becomes worth it.
- jjoonathan 12y ago
  I think P(rain dances bring rain) is several orders of magnitude smaller than P(diet goes to shit, experience some weird deficiency). Is $20/yr really so much to pay for peace of mind that you aren't slowly degrading your bones or something?
- lorddoig 12y ago
  > Thats like saying that doing rain dances can't hurt and might bring rain. ...and make rain dancers happy, to complete your simile. Or at least stop them being sad because some douche from the internet came along and ruined their party: "Stop your harmless activity and live by my idea of what your life should be like! Schnell!" > If you can't link the two its really not worth doing. There's a link between my fondness for gambling and the reduction of my bank balance. Is it still worth it? Absolutely. I get a kick. We all have our own apparent idiosyncrasies.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Taking vitamins is not always harmless. The "antioxidant" stuff is mostly bullshit; vitamin A is toxic in overdose; some vitamins make some cancers worse; etc. It wouldn't be so bad if the raindancing was free, but it's expensive and pushed by massive corporations making a quick buck off ignorance and fear.
russell 12y ago
Indeed. I started taking large doses (10,000IU per day) when I read an article about a doctor at Atascadero State Hospital who got marked improvement in his violent patients when he gave them vitamin D injections. Better not too low, I said to myself.
- lorddoig 12y ago
  I read once that Linus Pauling was convinced high-dose vitamin C could defeat a cold, and I hate colds. So now right as I feel one coming on I chow down (literally) 30,000mg and I must admit it appears to work.
  - Filligree 12y ago
    I am an oracle. I predict that, although it has worked so far, it will now cease to work. Check back in a year, you'll see.
    - lorddoig 12y ago
      I don't think the placebo effect works when he who's dishing it out is quite so blatant about it.
      - jmulho 12y ago
        But it appears to work when the person taking the placebo diagnosed their own cold coming on.
        lorddoig 12y ago
        The implication being there is no discernible transition between perfectly fine and full-blown cold? You're just trundling along, enjoying your day, and then - BAM! - like a ninja, it's there? Or are you saying it's too difficult a diagnosis to make without professional support? "What's wrong with you?" "I don't know, my nose is starting to feel a bit weird and my head feels a bit stuffy.".........."Just back from A&E and would you believe it's a cold!" "No!" Yeah thought not.
guyzero 12y ago
I'm not sure if Pascal's Wager is a very compelling argument.
- lorddoig 12y ago
  It's not quite the same. The conflicting instructions of what we all should and shouldn't do coming from all directions is psychologically stressful. I'm positing simply that the expected utility gained by ignoring this rant and sticking with vits is higher than the expected cost of freaking out Daily Mail-style and binning them, if you're a viamin type of person.
travisp 12y ago
There are a number of studies that suggest that the antioxidants (Vitamin C and E) very well might harm you -- supplementing with them may reduce or prevent the benefits of exercise: http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long http://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2012/707941/ http://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2012/707941/
- lorddoig 12y ago
  To further my point: this is just more noise that I really can't be bothered to take in. I don't have the time or energy (or qualifications) to dedicate to analysing my Berocca intake which has done no noticeable harm in the medium-run. Again - for me at least - ignore, and move on.

mitchty 12y ago

Thats like saying that doing rain dances can't hurt and might bring rain. If you can't link the two its really not worth doing. Sure vitamins might not do harm (this is questionable), but that doesn't mean they are doing anything productive. Also its just wasteful money wise. Why spend N dollars a year on something that has about as much evidence to back it up as a placebo pill?

Retric 12y ago
As the article says large random controlled studies demonstrate taking vitamins lower your risk of death. In what way is that like a rain dance? PS: Well assuming your an elderly woman taking vitamin D.
lincolnq 12y ago
I guess it depends on your credibility thresholds. I take vitamin D because some studies say it's good for you, none say it's bad, and some people on the internet report subjective cognitive & mood enhancement. It costs me around $5/year. Sure, it might be doing nothing. But even a subtle cognitive or mood enhancement would easily be worth two orders of magnitude more than that, so I only have to think there's a 1% chance of a tiny effect before it becomes worth it.
jjoonathan 12y ago
I think P(rain dances bring rain) is several orders of magnitude smaller than P(diet goes to shit, experience some weird deficiency). Is $20/yr really so much to pay for peace of mind that you aren't slowly degrading your bones or something?
lorddoig 12y ago
> Thats like saying that doing rain dances can't hurt and might bring rain. ...and make rain dancers happy, to complete your simile. Or at least stop them being sad because some douche from the internet came along and ruined their party: "Stop your harmless activity and live by my idea of what your life should be like! Schnell!" > If you can't link the two its really not worth doing. There's a link between my fondness for gambling and the reduction of my bank balance. Is it still worth it? Absolutely. I get a kick. We all have our own apparent idiosyncrasies.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Taking vitamins is not always harmless. The "antioxidant" stuff is mostly bullshit; vitamin A is toxic in overdose; some vitamins make some cancers worse; etc. It wouldn't be so bad if the raindancing was free, but it's expensive and pushed by massive corporations making a quick buck off ignorance and fear.

russell 12y ago

Indeed. I started taking large doses (10,000IU per day) when I read an article about a doctor at Atascadero State Hospital who got marked improvement in his violent patients when he gave them vitamin D injections. Better not too low, I said to myself.

lorddoig 12y ago
I read once that Linus Pauling was convinced high-dose vitamin C could defeat a cold, and I hate colds. So now right as I feel one coming on I chow down (literally) 30,000mg and I must admit it appears to work.
- Filligree 12y ago
  I am an oracle. I predict that, although it has worked so far, it will now cease to work. Check back in a year, you'll see.
  - lorddoig 12y ago
    I don't think the placebo effect works when he who's dishing it out is quite so blatant about it.
    - jmulho 12y ago
      But it appears to work when the person taking the placebo diagnosed their own cold coming on.
      - lorddoig 12y ago
        The implication being there is no discernible transition between perfectly fine and full-blown cold? You're just trundling along, enjoying your day, and then - BAM! - like a ninja, it's there? Or are you saying it's too difficult a diagnosis to make without professional support? "What's wrong with you?" "I don't know, my nose is starting to feel a bit weird and my head feels a bit stuffy.".........."Just back from A&E and would you believe it's a cold!" "No!" Yeah thought not.

guyzero 12y ago

I'm not sure if Pascal's Wager is a very compelling argument.

lorddoig 12y ago
It's not quite the same. The conflicting instructions of what we all should and shouldn't do coming from all directions is psychologically stressful. I'm positing simply that the expected utility gained by ignoring this rant and sticking with vits is higher than the expected cost of freaking out Daily Mail-style and binning them, if you're a viamin type of person.

travisp 12y ago

There are a number of studies that suggest that the antioxidants (Vitamin C and E) very well might harm you -- supplementing with them may reduce or prevent the benefits of exercise: http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long http://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665.long http://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2012/707941/ http://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2012/707941/

lorddoig 12y ago
To further my point: this is just more noise that I really can't be bothered to take in. I don't have the time or energy (or qualifications) to dedicate to analysing my Berocca intake which has done no noticeable harm in the medium-run. Again - for me at least - ignore, and move on.