8 ms·

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less

A cyclist is just a brief inconvenience. It's the same as a school bus or slow driver in a lane requiring you to go around. Every bike on the road is one less car causing traffic. It's crazy to want infrastructure for JUST cyclists when the road is a perfectly good way to travel.

derekp7 12y ago
I'm OK with the occasional cyclist. It is when there is a group of 30 from a club riding in a pack, going 15 MPH, on a 45 MPH highway with not a lot of passing areas that get irritating. The other thing that I don't like is having to pass the same cyclist several times in traffic. They pass you on the right when traffic is stoped, but don't move over so you can pass them on the left when traffic starts to move again.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Im sure its annoying, but its that way for a reason. You are belted into a multi-thousand-pound steel-reinforced vehicle. They are riding on some pipes with a Styrofoam block strapped to their head. I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. When traffic is moving after the light, the car sure as heck better leave some room for the cycle, because any error there means an ambulance.
  - goblin89 12y ago
    > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Try staying for a minute or two behind a vehicle that has its engine running and burning fuel. In a line at a light inhaling exhaust is enough to make you dizzy—at least that's what happened to me when I tried it once. Always pulling right to the light afterwards.
  - watwut 12y ago
    The car passing and pulling to the head of the line makes more sense for motorcycles. They have faster starts then cars and are relatively more vulnerable. If they go first they do not slow starting cars down while lowering the chance of collision.
  - mikestew 12y ago
    > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. It's legal in exactly one state: California. I think it's a wink and a nod for bicycles (or maybe it is legal for pedal bikes, I just don't care enough to look), but it is most definitely illegal outside of CA for motorcycles. One lane == one vehicle. I can even dig out the relevant section of the Revised Code of Washington, 'cause it sure would be sweet to lane split in WA but the RCW says "no".
  - derekp7 12y ago
    The thing is, every time a car passes a bicycle on a busy road, especially one that isn't designed to accommodate bicycles and cars safely (i.e., one with 0 inches paved shoulder to the right of the white line) it is inherently dangerous. And if the bicycle causes the same car to pass multiple times, the agitation of the driver goes up. The safe thing to do, is for the bicycle to go ahead and pass on the right, stop at the light, then wait for the cars that already passed once to clear through the intersection before proceeding. At least that's what I try to do when I cycle to work (i.e., not treat the cars as enemies, but to be empathetic). And if I happen to be on a road with a lot of traffic, I'll periodically hit the gravel for a bit for cars to get around me if there is oncoming traffic.
    - endzone 12y ago
      struggling to think of a more unsafe and misguided approach to cycling in traffic than continually exiting and reentering the road. bizarre
      - derekp7 12y ago
        If I'm on a 2-lane road, and gravel next to the white line... a car is passing me and having to cross the center line. Meanwhile, a big gravel truck is approaching over the hill in the oncoming lane. The 4000 lb car to the left of me can either wrestle with the 25000 lb gravel truck, or the 200 lb me. Now guess why I'm willing to hit the gravel and let the car back over.
  - ShinyCyril 12y ago
    > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. A lot of lights in London have a space marked out at the front reserved for cyclists and motorcyclists so that they don't get cut up by vehicles making a turn.
Zarathust 12y ago
This is not true. There are other transportation means such as buses and subways.
- mjmahone17 12y ago
  If you're lucky and live in an area that has a good public transportation infrastructure. But even in NYC, I can usually get to where I'm going on my bike in half the time it would take via public transit.
bane 12y ago
The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens. More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on.
- Pxtl 12y ago
  > The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens. If there were only cyclists on the road, the worst accident would be a few broken bones. You chose to bring a potentially lethal device onto the roads, of course it's your responsibility. If I juggle chainsaws in a crowded plaza, I don't get to blame the guy who bumped into me for flinging chainsaws into people. > More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on. Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain. And don't give me the "taxpayer" line, an astronomical amount of cash is spent on roadways and expressways over and above any gas taxes or fees. Complaining about the small amount spent on bikes just makes you seem extremely petty.
  - commandar 12y ago
    >Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain. So much this. We have some fantastic bike trails in my area, but one of the primary arteries just suddenly ends about two miles from the downtown core. The official, city-endorsed route the rest of the way runs on normal surface streets. Coincidentally, the closest I've come to being involved in a serious accident on my bike was through that section when some jackass behind me decided I shouldn't be on the road and tried to force me into a gutter. The kicker being I had just pushed off from a red light and was actually moving faster than the car in the left lane beside me at that point. Sometimes bikes don't have any choice but to be on the road, and sometimes they're even told to by the local government.
RyanMcGreal 12y ago
Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent the past four decades telling people it's safe to ride a bike in car traffic. Several European cities spent that time building continuous networks of dedicated, physically protected cycle tracks. All you need to do is compare how the modal splits have changed over that time to know which approach was more successful.
- 7952 12y ago
  I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.
  - osconfused 12y ago
    Perhaps the solution is to live closer to where you work.
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    Not everyone. Around here however more and more people bike. Me I drive the car some days and the bike other days. I wish for bike lanes equally much when I'm in the car and when I'm on my bike. (I'm a biker so I'm allowed to say this: Yes you are allowed to ride you bike in the main street around here but it shows a real lack of understanding when you have a row of cars queing up behind you, and a choice between a sidewalk, another route and several less crowded streets to choose from and still choose to use the main road.)
  - kasey_junk 12y ago
    Actually we all hope that with more facilities living much closer to your work becomes more viable.

derekp7 12y ago

I'm OK with the occasional cyclist. It is when there is a group of 30 from a club riding in a pack, going 15 MPH, on a 45 MPH highway with not a lot of passing areas that get irritating. The other thing that I don't like is having to pass the same cyclist several times in traffic. They pass you on the right when traffic is stoped, but don't move over so you can pass them on the left when traffic starts to move again.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Im sure its annoying, but its that way for a reason. You are belted into a multi-thousand-pound steel-reinforced vehicle. They are riding on some pipes with a Styrofoam block strapped to their head. I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. When traffic is moving after the light, the car sure as heck better leave some room for the cycle, because any error there means an ambulance.
- goblin89 12y ago
  > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Try staying for a minute or two behind a vehicle that has its engine running and burning fuel. In a line at a light inhaling exhaust is enough to make you dizzy—at least that's what happened to me when I tried it once. Always pulling right to the light afterwards.
- watwut 12y ago
  The car passing and pulling to the head of the line makes more sense for motorcycles. They have faster starts then cars and are relatively more vulnerable. If they go first they do not slow starting cars down while lowering the chance of collision.
- mikestew 12y ago
  > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. It's legal in exactly one state: California. I think it's a wink and a nod for bicycles (or maybe it is legal for pedal bikes, I just don't care enough to look), but it is most definitely illegal outside of CA for motorcycles. One lane == one vehicle. I can even dig out the relevant section of the Revised Code of Washington, 'cause it sure would be sweet to lane split in WA but the RCW says "no".
- derekp7 12y ago
  The thing is, every time a car passes a bicycle on a busy road, especially one that isn't designed to accommodate bicycles and cars safely (i.e., one with 0 inches paved shoulder to the right of the white line) it is inherently dangerous. And if the bicycle causes the same car to pass multiple times, the agitation of the driver goes up. The safe thing to do, is for the bicycle to go ahead and pass on the right, stop at the light, then wait for the cars that already passed once to clear through the intersection before proceeding. At least that's what I try to do when I cycle to work (i.e., not treat the cars as enemies, but to be empathetic). And if I happen to be on a road with a lot of traffic, I'll periodically hit the gravel for a bit for cars to get around me if there is oncoming traffic.
  - endzone 12y ago
    struggling to think of a more unsafe and misguided approach to cycling in traffic than continually exiting and reentering the road. bizarre
    - derekp7 12y ago
      If I'm on a 2-lane road, and gravel next to the white line... a car is passing me and having to cross the center line. Meanwhile, a big gravel truck is approaching over the hill in the oncoming lane. The 4000 lb car to the left of me can either wrestle with the 25000 lb gravel truck, or the 200 lb me. Now guess why I'm willing to hit the gravel and let the car back over.
- ShinyCyril 12y ago
  > I most states its legal for cycles (motor and non) to pass cars and pull to the head of the line at a light. Not sure why; but that's the way it is. Stopped cars + agile cyclist = no problem. A lot of lights in London have a space marked out at the front reserved for cyclists and motorcyclists so that they don't get cut up by vehicles making a turn.

Zarathust 12y ago

This is not true. There are other transportation means such as buses and subways.

mjmahone17 12y ago
If you're lucky and live in an area that has a good public transportation infrastructure. But even in NYC, I can usually get to where I'm going on my bike in half the time it would take via public transit.

bane 12y ago

The road is not a perfectly good place for bikes to travel. It's like saying the conveyor belt in an automated slaughter house is a good place to dance because it's flat and doesn't move too fast or that pedestrians should just walk down the middle of the road because it's not a bad walking surface. The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens. More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on.

Pxtl 12y ago
> The biggest possible problem is that as the auto driver you become responsible for any bike rider you come into contact with because they are unprotected regardless of the circumstances of the contact. I didn't ask them to get on the road with me, but I'll sure as hell be held responsible for their decision if something happens. If there were only cyclists on the road, the worst accident would be a few broken bones. You chose to bring a potentially lethal device onto the roads, of course it's your responsibility. If I juggle chainsaws in a crowded plaza, I don't get to blame the guy who bumped into me for flinging chainsaws into people. > More importantly, as a tax payer, I've helped fund literally dozens of miles of really nice dedicated paved and marked bike only trails, complete with parking and overpasses, tunnels and signals at busy intersections. There is literally no excuse for them to play "Tour de France" on the same road I'm trying to get to work on. Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain. And don't give me the "taxpayer" line, an astronomical amount of cash is spent on roadways and expressways over and above any gas taxes or fees. Complaining about the small amount spent on bikes just makes you seem extremely petty.
- commandar 12y ago
  >Try it. You might be surprised that these bike lanes have dead ends or obstacles or just astonishingly crappy terrain. So much this. We have some fantastic bike trails in my area, but one of the primary arteries just suddenly ends about two miles from the downtown core. The official, city-endorsed route the rest of the way runs on normal surface streets. Coincidentally, the closest I've come to being involved in a serious accident on my bike was through that section when some jackass behind me decided I shouldn't be on the road and tried to force me into a gutter. The kicker being I had just pushed off from a red light and was actually moving faster than the car in the left lane beside me at that point. Sometimes bikes don't have any choice but to be on the road, and sometimes they're even told to by the local government.

RyanMcGreal 12y ago

Sorry, but John Forester was wrong - not about the mechanics of vehicular cycling, but the psychology. I'm a year-round, go-anywhere cyclist who rides in mixed traffic on side streets and major arterials alike, and I understand that this puts me in an extreme minority: more than 99% of people simply will not ride a bike unless they have a safe-looking, physically protected space in which to do it. North America spent the past four decades telling people it's safe to ride a bike in car traffic. Several European cities spent that time building continuous networks of dedicated, physically protected cycle tracks. All you need to do is compare how the modal splits have changed over that time to know which approach was more successful.

7952 12y ago
I am amazed how some people think that with more facilities everyone will start cycling. It is fun but also quite impractical and sometimes very uncomfortable. It is only really feasible for most people if they live close to their work. Cars make people live much further.
- osconfused 12y ago
  Perhaps the solution is to live closer to where you work.
- reitanqild 12y ago
  Not everyone. Around here however more and more people bike. Me I drive the car some days and the bike other days. I wish for bike lanes equally much when I'm in the car and when I'm on my bike. (I'm a biker so I'm allowed to say this: Yes you are allowed to ride you bike in the main street around here but it shows a real lack of understanding when you have a row of cars queing up behind you, and a choice between a sidewalk, another route and several less crowded streets to choose from and still choose to use the main road.)
- kasey_junk 12y ago
  Actually we all hope that with more facilities living much closer to your work becomes more viable.