4 ms·

Ivy League Grade Inflation

9 points by rouma7 12y ago

ivraatiems 12y ago
The interesting question is, is this happening only at the Ivies or across the board? I haven't seen any data on grade inflation from non-top-tier universities. I would wager that if we're looking at second-tier (non-Ivy but still very restrictive), top-tier technical (engineering, etc.) and art/music schools, we would be seeing significantly less grade inflation. Does anyone know if there is any data on this?
- ggchappell 12y ago
  I think data comparing grade inflation by discipline would also be interesting. For example, I would guess that in fields in which grading can be more objective (consider the question of whether a computer program performs to spec vs. grading an analysis of some kind of literature), consistency in grading would be easier to maintain. Then there are considerations of what grading is for. If we consider grades to be certification that a student meets the standards of a profession, then majors leading to professions with lax standards might give higher grades.
  - ivraatiems 12y ago
    Speaking as someone who is double majoring in "hard" and "soft" science, I can say that in my anecdotal experience, grading is tougher the "harder" the class is. However, it's also possible I'm just worse at the harder science, and better in courses which require qualitative high performance. Another student could have the opposite effect.
georgeecollins 12y ago
Many years ago, when I used to hire programmers, someone told me that a CS degree from an Ivy league was less of a reliable predictor of engineering talent than a CS degree from a University of California school (Cal, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB etc.) The logic of this was that the engineering schools of UCs had a serious "weed out" process. If you went to an Ivy and made your major CS, because it was fashionable, you got through no matter what. I don't have anecdotes to verify this-- much less data-- but I thought it was an interesting observation.
- hga 12y ago
  Some of this has to be biased by the fact that there's no Ivy League school with a top CS program, unless you count Stanford, whereas UCB is, perhaps anonymously, one of the 4 (the other two being CMU and MIT). Hmmm, my vague and out of date memory is that public universities are well represented in 2nd tier CS programs, and I can't remember any Ivies in that list. But that's old, iffy and perhaps obsolete info. One very obsolete thing is equipment: the wealthier schools used to have a big advantage in being able to supply computer time to their students.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    > there's no Ivy League school with a top CS program How do you define "top CS program"? I can't find a ranking that doesn't have Cornell or Princeton in the top 10. Defining "top program" as top 5 seems a bit odd (even then Cornell occasionally makes the list)
    - hga 12y ago
      Last time I checked (last decade, I suppose), "everyone" agreed Stanford, UC Berkeley, CMU and MIT had the world's best CS programs, with a big gap before the next "tier". I'm willing to believe, maybe back then, but especially today, that some Ivy's are ranked high in the 2nd tier.
      - seanflyon 12y ago
        I can't find anyone but you who defines "a top CS program" as the top 4 schools, but you are right that the top 4 are better tan the 5th and 6th.
rogueleaderr 12y ago
Ivy league students today are on average much smarter than ivy league students in 1950. If the point of grades is to sort students then sure, grades are "inflated" in that they don't accurately reflect increasingly fine distinctions in intelligence or effort. But if grades are supposed to reflect how well students understand the material on some sort of remotely absolute scale then we should expect to see average grades going up over time.

9 points by rouma7 12y ago

The interesting question is, is this happening only at the Ivies or across the board? I haven't seen any data on grade inflation from non-top-tier universities. I would wager that if we're looking at second-tier (non-Ivy but still very restrictive), top-tier technical (engineering, etc.) and art/music schools, we would be seeing significantly less grade inflation. Does anyone know if there is any data on this?

ggchappell 12y ago
I think data comparing grade inflation by discipline would also be interesting. For example, I would guess that in fields in which grading can be more objective (consider the question of whether a computer program performs to spec vs. grading an analysis of some kind of literature), consistency in grading would be easier to maintain. Then there are considerations of what grading is for. If we consider grades to be certification that a student meets the standards of a profession, then majors leading to professions with lax standards might give higher grades.
- ivraatiems 12y ago
  Speaking as someone who is double majoring in "hard" and "soft" science, I can say that in my anecdotal experience, grading is tougher the "harder" the class is. However, it's also possible I'm just worse at the harder science, and better in courses which require qualitative high performance. Another student could have the opposite effect.

georgeecollins 12y ago

Many years ago, when I used to hire programmers, someone told me that a CS degree from an Ivy league was less of a reliable predictor of engineering talent than a CS degree from a University of California school (Cal, UCLA, UCSD, UCSB etc.) The logic of this was that the engineering schools of UCs had a serious "weed out" process. If you went to an Ivy and made your major CS, because it was fashionable, you got through no matter what. I don't have anecdotes to verify this-- much less data-- but I thought it was an interesting observation.

hga 12y ago
Some of this has to be biased by the fact that there's no Ivy League school with a top CS program, unless you count Stanford, whereas UCB is, perhaps anonymously, one of the 4 (the other two being CMU and MIT). Hmmm, my vague and out of date memory is that public universities are well represented in 2nd tier CS programs, and I can't remember any Ivies in that list. But that's old, iffy and perhaps obsolete info. One very obsolete thing is equipment: the wealthier schools used to have a big advantage in being able to supply computer time to their students.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  > there's no Ivy League school with a top CS program How do you define "top CS program"? I can't find a ranking that doesn't have Cornell or Princeton in the top 10. Defining "top program" as top 5 seems a bit odd (even then Cornell occasionally makes the list)
  - hga 12y ago
    Last time I checked (last decade, I suppose), "everyone" agreed Stanford, UC Berkeley, CMU and MIT had the world's best CS programs, with a big gap before the next "tier". I'm willing to believe, maybe back then, but especially today, that some Ivy's are ranked high in the 2nd tier.
    - seanflyon 12y ago
      I can't find anyone but you who defines "a top CS program" as the top 4 schools, but you are right that the top 4 are better tan the 5th and 6th.

rogueleaderr 12y ago

Ivy league students today are on average much smarter than ivy league students in 1950. If the point of grades is to sort students then sure, grades are "inflated" in that they don't accurately reflect increasingly fine distinctions in intelligence or effort. But if grades are supposed to reflect how well students understand the material on some sort of remotely absolute scale then we should expect to see average grades going up over time.