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For London's Cabbies, Job Entails World's Hardest Geography Test
- peteretep 12y agoWhich is why London taxis are so damn expensive, and why UbiCab, Addison Lee, and Uber provide such an amazing service.
- atmosx 12y agoYeap but if we want to be fair, we either have to pass Uber drivers through the same procedure or we should lower the barrier for the cabbies.
- rdl 12y agoThe black cab brand probably is enough to justify at least some additional training for higher rates. I'd probably pay a premium over Uber to have a really qualified driver (although safety would be my preference vs. knowing the roads).
- DanBC 12y agoNo we don't. Uber are free to operate without their drivers passing the knowledge if Uber choses to compete against taxis - pre booked pickups (no hailing from the side of the road) and pre-arranged prices (not using illegal unchecked uncalibrated meters). If Uber wants to use meters they need to comply with the regulations that come with meters.
- rahimnathwani 12y agoUber are free to operate without their drivers passing the knowledge if Uber choses to compete against taxis Did you mean 'chooses to compete against minicabs'?
- yardie 12y agoI've taken cabs in many places and a lot are worse than Uber but one thing I've never had to worry about with the black cabs is the level of service. If I'm going into the buroughs then I chose Uber. But if I'm going into central London then the black cab, hands down. Until these new cab services get access to bus and restricted lanes there simply is no comparison.
- SirensOfTitan 12y agoAmazing is not the adjective I would use. Uber is a terrible experience in London (which is a HARD city to navigate). I don't live in London. Whenever I hail a cab I have a semblance of where I'm going and not much else. It is a pleasure (and worth the extra) for my driver to know exactly how to get me where I'm going, even when I might not know. In my experience, Uber drivers require me to know the exact address, including post code. Even with GPS, they often get lost, confused, and take bad routes.
- cr3ative 12y agoYou have to book on a mobile - I just look up the postcode and insert it as my destination before I order the Uber. When they turn up, the Uber app sat-navs them to exactly where I asked to be. Not tricky. Minicabs wouldn't know where attractions were either. UberX is often half the price or less of a black cab. Convenience against cost is something you have to sum up for yourself, but it's far from a terrible experience.
- baddox 12y ago> The five years he has spent on the quest is fairly typical. > The Uber driver did the run from the newspaper's office in King's Cross to Big Ben, in Westminster, in 22 minutes; the cabbie did it in 18, by taking a slightly longer route he knew to be quicker. The apparent extent of London cabbies is undoubtedly impressive, but I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the benefits of the Uber driver not having to spend five years studying the roads.
- yardie 12y agoYou study the roads by driving them everyday. It makes you familiar with traffic patterns, POI, and small details that a GPS simply won't give you, (ie. when primary schools let out avoid this route). I've met some Uber drivers who are using the service as mileage builders until they are ready to take the tests.
- unfamiliar 12y agoGoogle or Apple maps could easily suggest you "avoid this route when primary schools out" because they have average traffic speed data and can see that around those areas at those times traffic moves slowly. They don't have to know the underlying cause to be effective.
- gambiting 12y agoThey could,but they don't. Also it would be good if they could predict traffic, like if there is a game in town or a planned protest, then don't take certain routes, even though they might be completely empty right now. A good cabbie will know that, sat nav - not a chance.
- danudey 12y agoGoogle also doesn't know when there's roadwork, and will happily suggest that you take a street that's going to add 15-25 minutes to your journey, but only this weekend. I once had it give me three routes: head down 210th until you're halfway to your destination, then take a right and drive to 220th, then keep going; head down to 220th until you're halfway to your destination, then take a left and drive to 210th, then keep going; or head down to 220th and drive the whole way. My wife, who grew up in the area, said 'that's stupid', drove down 210th the whole way, and got us there faster than we would have otherwise (because we weren't taking any left turns on busy routes the whole way).
- rdl 12y agoI far prefer this system to the nyc medallion system. It still underprovisions taxis, essentially a tax on riders, but gives them a better experience.
- personlurking 12y agoI wonder if NYC's cabbie test is anywhere near as rigorous (if, in fact, there is one to speak of), as I can't think of any other taxi-centric city.
- wingerlang 12y agoI'd probably add Bangkok to that list. Loads and loads of taxis here.
- peteretep 12y agoWho consistently can't find major landmarks; I have occasionally opted for an Uber in Bangkok when I want a taxi that's going to be hassle free. Back from the airport, too, as when I get off a long flight, I don't want to be arguing about whether I'm going to get on the meter or not.
- CaptainZapp 12y agoI don't want to be arguing about whether I'm going to get on the meter or not. That never happened to me, when grabbing a cab at any of the two Bangkok airports. As a matter of fact the service there works pretty well. What did happen, though, was that I got into a taxi with a doctored meter. This could range from a fairly innocuous 20% surcharge (which is still not OK, to be sure) to meters in cardiac arrest mode, charging about factor 15 (literally). Within city limits the situation may be different. My experience is that when you get into a cab, which is parking at one of the more touristy areas they try to take you for a ride and are rarely willing to engage their meters. There's usually never a discussion if meter, or not, if you hail a cab on the street. This only applies to Bangkok. In other places in Thailand it's practically impossible to get the driver to engage the meter, even if he's (it's almost always a he) legally required to do so. Note to first time visitors: Not engaging the meter and agreeing on a flat fee is always a bad deal. 5$ may seem cheap to you. But for the same ride you would have paid 1/3rd of the price with the meter engaged.
- wingerlang 12y ago
- oska 12y agoThere's a fairly decent little film that follows four (fictional) characters seeking to aquire "The Knowledge". http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082624/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082624/
- patio11 12y agoIt's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers. It is very easy to distinguish between an Uber and a black cab, so if black cabs are systematically better than the combination of Google and a GPS, the market will work it out in a few weeks.
- DanBC 12y ago> It's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers. This test is only for people wishing to drive Black cabs. This test does not exist for drivers other regular taxis in London. Very many taxi companies exist and people are free to drive for those companies. Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. I'm not sure how Uber manages to generate so much hype around restrictive business regulation when there's nothing preventing them operating as licensed taxis in London. Nothing, that is, apart from their desire to use untested unregulated uncalibrated software to meter the rides.
- UK-AL 12y ago"untested unregulated uncalibrated software" like any other GPS system that millions of people and truck drivers rely on everyday without issue?
- DanBC 12y agoThose drivers aren't using the software to charge people, and that's where regulation gets involved. Just as grocers have calibrated scales to weigh items for charging cab drivers have calibrated meters which prevent tampering and ensure known pricing.
- baddox 12y ago> Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. Wouldn't that only be an issue if the customer was unaware that Uber cars aren't guaranteed to be accessible? That seems like a peculiar example to use, because for each customer the worst case scenario would be calling an Uber once, realizing it's not accessible, then always using the licensed black cabs from then on.
- davidw 12y ago> The Uber driver did the run from the newspaper's office in King's Cross to Big Ben, in Westminster, in 22 minutes; the cabbie did it in 18, by taking a slightly longer route he knew to be quicker. A lot of times "disruptive" innovations are initially not as good as what they compete against, but are "good enough" and better in some other way: cheaper, smaller, faster, easier to use, or something like that that lets new people use them.
- rahimnathwani 12y agoA few things you may not know if you've never lived in London: 1) London taxis are permitted to use most bus lanes, with or without passengers. Regular cars or minivans are not, even if they are carrying 5 or 7 passengers. This doesn't encourage efficient use of road space. 2) London taxis are meant to take you wherever you want to go but when I lived there they would often flout this rule. A friend of mine would deliberately wait on the Northbound side of the street, so that passing taxi drivers wouldn't pass him by because they didn't want to go to South London. Only after he was seated would he tell them his destination, which is when the 25-foot turning circle came in handy. 3) London taxis are exempt from the congestion charge (a large toll zone within London, with a fixed daily fee of over 18USD). Regular cars must pay, even though they would typically spend a much smaller proportion of their time on the road, thereby causing less congestion than taxis which are driving around all day.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- DanBC 12y ago> 2) London taxis are meant to take you wherever you want to go but when I lived there they would often flout this rule. Regulation works if people report the offenders.
- gambiting 12y agoWell they don't flat our refuse. But like OP said, they just don't drive down the southbound route to avoid going to the southern parts of town. So what are you going to report? That you have seen 50 taxis going north, but 0 going south?
- masklinn 12y agoYes, that sounds good. Contact complaints[0] and indicate that black cabs seemingly and magically never seem to go south, and you have to trick them by standing on the other side of the road to catch them. [0] http://www.londonblacktaxis.net/complaints.htm http://www.londonblacktaxis.net/complaints.htm
- dangravell 12y agoSorry, completely off topic, but does anyone know a name for this American style of headline writing "For [subject of the story], [story overview]"? It's always stuck out to me so I'd like to put a name to it. You don't see headlines written like this in the UK.
- bshimmin 12y agoThis is the general grammatical term for that sort of construct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apposition The "For" bit does seem somewhat unique to this style of headline, and I don't know the name (or if there even is a name) for that as a whole.
- Gustomaximus 12y agoMy anecdote for how well memorized london cabbies are. I used to live on a small street in central-ish London. See link below. I would regularly catch cabs from the city home. Out of many trips only once did a cabbie ask me where the road is. I replied 'Near Holland Rd" and he knew it straight off. This street was a few hundred meters and had nothing special going for it like popular shops etc. It never ceased to amaze me that every cabbie knew this tiny street in all London. Elsham Rd: http://bit.ly/ZgyJx6 http://bit.ly/ZgyJx6
- leonk 12y agoI've had plenty of incidents where I've had to direct a black cab driver to my destination (all of which were within zone 2 in London). I assume they weren't authorised cabbies and were borrowing/renting the cab from someone else. This was all in the pre-uber era. I guess the cost of taking the knowledge was high enough to warrant illegally subletting their licensees.
- jdietrich 12y agoA lot of detractors miss the fact that the Knowledge is about much more than just memorising routes. The Knowledge is a very egalitarian way of hugely increasing the value of a taxi permit to the holder, creating a strong disincentive against any behaviour that might jeopardise their license. If you've spent four or five years working to get your Green Badge, you'll think twice about cheating a passenger or taking liberties with traffic laws. The exams ("appearances") are conducted in person, and are deliberately intended to be highly stressful. Examiners want to see not only that the candidate knows the routes, but that they can remain calm and courteous under pressure. By design, the Knowledge is a long and arduous test of character that happens to impart practical skills. If your interest has been piqued by this article, there is an excellent (albeit slightly dated) BBC documentary on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvFKh_3evC8&list=PL759B26B057F30955 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvFKh_3evC8&list=PL759B26B05... http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b007796l/modern-times-streetwise http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b007796l/modern-times-s... It is also worth noting that the iconic black cab is a perfectly designed tool for the job, not just a kitsch symbol. It is fully wheelchair accessible, has a durable wipe-clean interior, and is designed with a very tight turning circle to maximise manoeuvrability in the tight streets of London.